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Old January 2nd, 2008, 01:05 AM   #581
Reivajar
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Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
Thanks Reivajar. Strange situation. Why not via the A-70 and A-77? Because they are maintained by the government of the Alicante Province? (if i am correct).
Map xD


Legend..xD


As you can see motorway and expressway network around Alicante is completely dependent on the Spanish Ministry of Public Works.

The situation is a bit confusing. Formerly, you have to considerer that A-7 toll motorway ended at Campello, en then it became a freeway/expressway/toll-free motorway which bypassed Alicante. It was also A-7 (before numering system change difference between expressway, free motorway and toll motorway was quite confusing). That first free rinroad is the current A-70. It continued to Murcia as A-7 too.

The A-7 from the north (from Valencia) was (if I'm correct) N-340 and there was neither A-7 nor A-77. So, the set formed by A-7 and A-77 was the N-340, and it ended in the A-7 expressway ring (current A-70).

The A-31 from Alicante was the N-330 and it ended in the A-7 expresway ring (current A-70) too.

So, A-70 was formerly the A-7 too, but with the numbering system change Ministry thought that first ringroad has been considerer as urban expressway/motorway. That's whay they changed its number. The A-77 was also part of the Mediterranean axis (N-340 is the national road that runs on the coast from Cadiz to La Junquera -French border-) and you are correct: A-7 (from Murcia), A-70, A-77 and A-7 (former N-340) to Valencia have been considered as part of the same axis, the free expressway on the Mediterranean Corridor. However, according to new numbering system A-77 and A-70 are part of the urban network of Alicante, destined to ditribute local traffic around Alicante and its urban area. To distribute interurban, regional, interegional and international traffic has been built the new ringroad, the AP-7 toll-motorway that continues in the yet built AP-7 (former A-7). The first strecht of this new ring was built before as a expressway branch of A-7 from Murcia. That's why A-7 on the west side has two branches: the first one was part of the original expressway/motorway Mediterranean Coast axis, and the second one was built to direct not local traffic towards AP-7 bypassing Alicante.

I think that A-7 must continue only from Murcia to AP-7 second ring, and A-70 must continue to A-7 directly, and not ending 1,7 kilometers after deviation to the airport.

PS. I'm not sure but I think that the A in A-70 and A-77 doesn't mean Autopista or Autovía but Alicante, as usually in urban acces and rinroads in Spain (M-xx in Madrid, SE-xx in Seville, B-xx in Barcelona, V-xx in Valencia, Z-xx in Saragossa, etc).
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Old January 2nd, 2008, 01:14 AM   #582
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Are you sure that that northern branch is really called A7?
I passed there last summer and it just didn't have any number. I've comentated that on the spanish forum.
But I find it hard to believe that it's also A7. It would be confusing. I think AP7 would be a much more apropriate name for that branch (although it's not tolled). It's just the continuation of AP7 until it merges with A7.
And the fact that it's not tolled it's not a problem. There are many stretches of the AP7 which aren't (a bit to the south, for example).
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Old January 2nd, 2008, 02:03 AM   #583
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Maybe it' isn't A-7..I'm not sure...according to some maps yes, it is, but..I can assure you.

In some fonts A-7 strecht between Murcia and Alicante ends on A-31 and A-70 junction, (so A-70 ends on A-31 final junction) but it's not possible because according to some documents from the Ministry of Public Works (the more reliable font, no doubt) deviation to the airport is on kilometric point 1,7 of A-70, and this expressway runs from west to east.

Everything is a bit confusing. Maybe branch that ends at the end of AP-7 ring has no number....I don't know. The best way to know it is cheking kilometric sign posts.
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Old January 2nd, 2008, 02:21 AM   #584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reivajar View Post
Everything is a bit confusing. Maybe branch that ends at the end of AP-7 ring has no number....I don't know. The best way to know it is cheking kilometric sign posts.


I have a couple of photo's of that stretch.... no hint on the name though... Maybe there weren't even any kilometric sign posts... I don't know.
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Old January 2nd, 2008, 01:37 PM   #585
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too good?
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Old January 2nd, 2008, 06:00 PM   #586
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Old January 2nd, 2008, 06:18 PM   #587
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Doesn't Alicante have a second brand new toll ring road? Which one is that? AP7?
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Old January 2nd, 2008, 06:22 PM   #588
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A-70: First toll-free ring road.
AP-7 (between El Campello and the A-31): Second (new) tolled ring road.
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Old January 3rd, 2008, 02:10 AM   #589
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We had talked in the past about how large the Spanish network was so I want to share some data. It's a bit outdated but must be the most reliable source from the Government (Spannish Statistical Institute).

First of all, km of Motorways (Autovías and Autopistas) in the Spanish Network. It also includes the amount for every Spanish region.

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Old January 3rd, 2008, 02:12 AM   #590
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Now, km of Autovías




Kilometers of Autopistas

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Old January 3rd, 2008, 02:17 AM   #591
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As you may know, the Spanish network is not only owned by the State. Here you can see the km of Motorways owned by every administration.

Red a cargo del Estado: Network owned by the Spanish State
Red a cargo de las Comunidades Autonomas: Network owned by the Autonomous Regions
Red a cargo de las Diputaciones y Cabildos: Network owned by the County Councils.

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Old January 3rd, 2008, 04:43 AM   #592
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@AdemA:What I mean is that the project looks amazing and specially since Bilbao's population ain't that high and it's roads are not so badly congested as in many other places....
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Old January 3rd, 2008, 04:45 AM   #593
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Very good work, Stifler. Thanks!
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Old January 3rd, 2008, 04:52 AM   #594
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Puerto Rico is kinda like Netherlands in that aspect Chris...
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Old January 3rd, 2008, 12:31 PM   #595
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Why did the number of motorway kilometres go back in Catalonia between 2001 and 2002?
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Old January 3rd, 2008, 12:57 PM   #596
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Yeah, I thought the same but forgot to post it.

Maybe lobbies of environmentalist destroying motorways

Seriously, it might be a change in the methodology to be considered Autovía. Maybe some double-carriageway that don't follow the standards nowadays to be called Autovía (roundabouts, traffic lights, geometry....). But it's odd that it has been mainly focused in Catalonia.
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Old January 3rd, 2008, 01:44 PM   #597
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Bilbao metropolitan has about 1 million inhabitants. Bilbao has a lot of suburban cities.

The current A-8 in Bilbao runs through the city on high viaducts. At the same time, some apartment buildings are right beside it, that means some buildings are only a few meters from the Autovía. You also have to keep in mind the A-8 is the only throughfare within the entire region. Other east-west connections are the AP-1 and A-231 (A-12), but those are way too far to the south to form an alternative.

[IMG]http://i12.************/6tm6b03.png[/IMG]

This causes a lot of liveability problems in the neighborhoods, and since it's the only major road in the region, there might be a lot of congestion (i don't know for sure), because the road usually has only 2 or 3 lanes per direction, which is not very much for a city of this size.
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Old January 3rd, 2008, 01:58 PM   #598
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I think a lot of Catalonian C-roads wich are only dual carriageway used to be called Autovía. I think since the great renumbering of highways, they changed the standard of an Autovía. I guess most major roads (even one lane) used to be considered an Autovía.

That is also why most people don't believe Spain has such a large motorway network, because they think Autovía still is the former standard. They might think when you are nowadays talking about an Autovía, you mostly mean those one lane major highways.

Though it's incredible to see that they constructed 8.000 kilometer of motorway in 15 years. That's is over 500km a year on average. At the Dutch rate of motorway construction, 8000 kilometers would take us 1379 years to complete
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Old January 3rd, 2008, 04:52 PM   #599
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Which number does the bypass of Bilbao have? I can't find it on the map nor Google Earth. the road starts just east of Galdakao at the AP-8, and runs parallel from the N-637 to Erandio at the BI-637, where it heads southwest to Barakaldo at the A-8. It's the northern bypass of Bilbao.
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Old January 3rd, 2008, 10:03 PM   #600
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In addition to what Chris has stated, there might be other areas with worse congestion problems or not, that's unimportant. What does matter is that in Bilbao/Biscay, the regional government collects the taxes (personal income taxes, sales tax, corporate taxes) and what is more important, decides where and when to spend that money.

In this particular case, the province government decided to unload the A-8 from trucks and passing (non-local) traffic via a toll expressway. With a bit of luck, it won't take as much time to complete as the Big Dig
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