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Old February 21st, 2016, 11:43 AM   #6001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
A62 construction works will begin in the 2nd half of 2015, execution time is 40 month, completion date March 2018: http://www.lagacetadesalamanca.es/sa...no/143407.html (6th May 2015)

A contract for controlling and supervising is signed: http://www.salamanca24horas.com/loca...ra-de-portugal (12th May 2015)

Wikipedia says "Inicio de obras (apertura prevista 2018)" --> "Start of construction (scheduled opening 2018)"?
A news article from July 2015 reports that preliminary works are expected to begin in the coming weeks.

Quote:
La planificación del proyecto prevé que hasta el primer trimestre de 2017 las labores se centren en el desbroce de la zona, la demolición de las estructuras existentes, las excavaciones y la construcción de terraplenes y canalizaciones. Los planes de obras del Ministerio de Fomento también prevén que, una vez estén avanzadas estas tareas, se aborde la construcción de dos enlaces a Fuentes de Oñoro y con la carretera de Aldea del Obispo, ocho estructuras para pasar bajo la autovía o sobre ella, además de un viaducto para salvar el arroyo Rivera del Campo. Toda la infraestructura deberá estar completada a lo largo de 2018, ya que el periodo dado a la concesionaria para las obras es de 40 meses.

Google translated:
Project planning expected until the first quarter of 2017 the work was focused on clearing the area, the demolition of existing structures, excavations and embankments and channels. Construction plans of the Ministry of Development also provide that, once these tasks are advanced, the construction of two links to Fuentes de Oñoro and Highway Aldea del Obispo eight structures to pass under the highway or on it is addressed, plus a viaduct to save the Rivera del Campo stream. All infrastructure should be completed throughout 2018, as the period given to the concessionaire for the works is 40 months.
I think we can indicate the section as u/c now.

For any reason, wikipedia indicates the estimated completion for 2017 but I think it should be April 2018 as annouced last May.

A62: Nuevo Poblado (P/E border) – Fuentes de Onoro 5km (2nd half 2015 to April 2018) – ? – map



Quote:
Originally Posted by verreme View Post
- Also tendered was the construction of the first stretch of the duplication of N-IV South of Sevilla, between Dos Hermanas and Los Palacios y Villafranca. Budget is 66.516.272,57€ for 8,4 kilometers of road. There are only two junctions so I assume this road will be motorway-like, though the press release does not mention it being a motorway.
Construction works began last December, see press release, news article and news article. Without info about the estimated completion date though .

N-IV: Dos Hermanas-South (AP4) – Los Palacios-North 8.4km (December 2015 to ?) – projectmap
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Old February 24th, 2016, 03:49 PM   #6002
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Great news: Works on Isuela gorge-Arguis section of A-23 have finally resumed. This section is between two completed ones (the longest strecht of A-23 so far and the first Monrepos tunnel) and thus is now a bottleneck. A new tunnel is included in this section, they were excavating it when work stopped. It was started some time after June 2007 and no completion date is given.
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Old February 24th, 2016, 07:34 PM   #6003
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Am I reading it correctly that the FV-1 autovía from Caldereta to south of Corralejo will open to traffic next month?

http://www.rtvc.es/noticias/la-v%C3%...x#.Vs3m8tD3DYg

This autovía has been nearly completed since 2012, but remains unfinished.

Meanwhile the Canarias government has also approved the next stretch from Puerto de Rosario to Caldereta.

http://www.gobiernodecanarias.org/no...ario-caldereta
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Old February 24th, 2016, 08:43 PM   #6004
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EDIT: I misunderstood the article . Please refer to artic_carlos's post for the right answer. The following part I read correctly:

According to the same article, the section Costa Calma-Rotonda de los Gorriones will open this summer:
FV2: Costa Calma – north of El Salmo 6.9km (? to summer 2016) – ? – map
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Old February 24th, 2016, 10:19 PM   #6005
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Let me ask my "local contact" in that island
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Old February 27th, 2016, 12:33 PM   #6006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Am I reading it correctly that the FV-1 autovía from Caldereta to south of Corralejo will open to traffic next month?

http://www.rtvc.es/noticias/la-v%C3%...x#.Vs3m8tD3DYg

This autovía has been nearly completed since 2012, but remains unfinished.
Not exactly.

The article says that a road connecting the autovía under construction (further inland) with the current alignment of FV-1 (along the coast) will open next month.

However it doesn't specify whether this new road (or upgrade of an existing one, as I guess) will connect the southern (Caldereta) or northern (Corralejo) end of the autovía to FV-1.

Quote:
El Cabildo de Fuerteventura espera que el próximo mes de marzo se abra al tráfico la vía que conectará la nueva autovía de Corralejo y La Caldereta con la FV-1.
It also says that the actual autovía Corralejo - Caldereta will open in early 2017:

Quote:
(...) a principios del próximo año se abrirá el tramo Corralejo-Caldereta.
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Old February 27th, 2016, 09:54 PM   #6007
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For me that list of "useless" motorways is pointless. Driving 200 kilometers on a 2-lane road with an AADT of 8.000 vehicles per day is a pain. Plus low construction cost of Spanish motorways in the Meseta plains changes the cost-benefit ratio. The specific circumstances of Spain make it impossible to judge the utility of our motorways using the same parameters you would use in Germany or the UK. And this is a mistake that we see too often in the media, be it Spanish, German or American. Even EU officials have done this.

Like it or not, Europe (or the EU for the matter) is too diverse to use the same measuring stick. Same applies every time someone says that all European countries should have a common driving code. Driving in Spain has little to do with driving in Germany or Italy. And roads are just plain different. It's part of the cultural identity of each country.
But considering that the density of motorways per head of population is higher than even in the US, and that Spain has both a massive domestic boom in HSR, a large number of airports, a higher than average use of shipping for cargo transport AND a shrinking population with a small fertility rate, are all these massive transport investments sustainable or even needed in a country that has many other burning issues?

Sorry to just barge in like this, but I always thought that Spain wastes too much money on infrastructure while areas such as education are badly underfunded (e.g. having the highest school drop-out rate in Europe) and while support for families is among the most paltry on the continent (hence low birthrate->lower economies of scale for the previously mentioned infrastructure/higher pensions burdens, etc.).

Also, while many of the motorways (or HSRs, for that matter) are very much needed, the density in the North-West, which is rapidly depopulating, is IMO very much an overkill.
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Old February 27th, 2016, 10:10 PM   #6008
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The actual expenditure on roads in Spain is relatively small.

In 2016, the road budget of Fomento is € 2.4 billion. This funds the Red de Carreteras del Estado of 26,124 kilometers.

To compare, the Netherlands spends € 2.0 billion on a road network of just 3,082 km.
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Old February 27th, 2016, 10:15 PM   #6009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robi_damian View Post
But considering that the density of motorways per head of population is higher than even in the US, and that Spain has both a massive domestic boom in HSR, a large number of airports, a higher than average use of shipping for cargo transport AND a shrinking population with a small fertility rate, are all these massive transport investments sustainable or even needed in a country that has many other burning issues?

Sorry to just barge in like this, but I always thought that Spain wastes too much money on infrastructure while areas such as education are badly underfunded (e.g. having the highest school drop-out rate in Europe) and while support for families is among the most paltry on the continent (hence low birthrate->lower economies of scale for the previously mentioned infrastructure/higher pensions burdens, etc.).

Also, while many of the motorways (or HSRs, for that matter) are very much needed, the density in the North-West, which is rapidly depopulating, is IMO very much an overkill.
The recent Spanish population reduction is an aftermath effect of the recession. Spanish population had been increasing a lot, as many left the country; otherwise, population had been increasing for 3 decades.
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Old February 27th, 2016, 10:15 PM   #6010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The actual expenditure on roads in Spain is relatively small.

In 2016, the road budget of Fomento is € 2.4 billion. This funds the Red de Carreteras del Estado of 26,124 kilometers.

To compare, the Netherlands spends € 2.0 billion on a road network of just 3,082 km.
Thanks for the clarification! Amazing how Spain can get away with paying so little while having by far the largest motorway network in Europe...
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Old February 28th, 2016, 12:48 PM   #6011
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Ma30

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Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
The Ma-30 widening is split to 4 sections. Section III is the first completed section. Construcioon works began in July 2013 (source):

MA30: Cas Capita – Son Ferriol 3.5km (July 2013 to 20th May 2015) – ? – map

If I got it right, section IV (north of it up to Ma-13) was also planned to be built from 2013 to 2015 (source; 2). Is it u/c? When have works began? Is there any estimated completion date?

I found a news article from February 2015 about stopping(?) the construction of section II (should be west of Son Ferriol). Is that right? When have works began? Is there any estimated completion date?

I couldn't find any info about section I (should be b/n Ma-15 and Ma-19). Is there any info?
Quote:
Originally Posted by verreme View Post
What this article says is that a court has ruled not to stop the construction of Ma-30.

I haven't found any completion dates, though. Generally speaking, completion dates of Spanish road projects are difficult to find, and if there's one, it may probably be a promise of some politician. Only projects financed with shadow tolls have reliable completion dates.
I found 2 Majorcan news articles in German which report that the contract for the construction of section II was recently canceled because there are problems with gas, oil and power supply lines at bridges. The 28-million-€-contract was awarded in late 2014. A modification of the contract had lead to an explosion of the costs. For that reason, the contract had to be canceled. Source 1 and Source 2 (it's referring to a Spanish Ultima Hora article but I could find it).

Ma30: north of Son Ferriol-North – Son Ferriol-South (Ma15) ~2km (2015 to ?) [contract canceled] – ? – map

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Which new motorways are currently under construction?
Which new motorways will be opened next?

See 'New motorway projects' thread

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Old February 28th, 2016, 01:17 PM   #6012
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It's true that infrastructure planning in Spain hasn't been the best, although road infrastructure specifically is not the problem.

Take airports for instance. Santander, Burgos, Bilbao, Vitoria, San Sebastián, Pamplona and Logroño all have airports. You can fit all of them in a 170x130 km rectangle. For a population of 4 million. I'd rather have a big airport in Vitoria, which is the best location IMO (centered, well connected, plenty of flat land) than 7 scattered airports with almost no flights (except Bilbao).

On the other hand, I don't think there has been over-investment in road infrastructure, generally speaking. Of course you can pick examples of motorways with low AADT in sparsely populated areas, but there's still a deficiency of infrastructure in some urban areas (esp. Barcelona). Also, especially in the northern half of Spain due to historical reasons, there are many tiny villages scattered all over the country. Therefore, even though population density may be lower overall, there's a denser road network that would need more investment in order to meet safety requirements.
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Old February 28th, 2016, 02:43 PM   #6013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robi_damian View Post
But considering that the density of motorways per head of population is higher than even in the US, and that Spain has both a massive domestic boom in HSR, a large number of airports, a higher than average use of shipping for cargo transport AND a shrinking population with a small fertility rate, are all these massive transport investments sustainable or even needed in a country that has many other burning issues?

Sorry to just barge in like this, but I always thought that Spain wastes too much money on infrastructure while areas such as education are badly underfunded (e.g. having the highest school drop-out rate in Europe) and while support for families is among the most paltry on the continent (hence low birthrate->lower economies of scale for the previously mentioned infrastructure/higher pensions burdens, etc.).

Also, while many of the motorways (or HSRs, for that matter) are very much needed, the density in the North-West, which is rapidly depopulating, is IMO very much an overkill.
Don't put motorways and HSR in the same bag. The first ones are cheap to build and the cost-benefit ratio is thus favorable. HSR are prohibitively expensive and the only point for it to exist is that every Spanish region wants to have cutting-edge infrastructure no matter if it's needed or not -and politicians know it and campaign for it. Anyway, all those HSR were planned before recession, and I think we'll not build more of these in the near future. Same happens with airports. Unused airports such as Lleida-Alguaire or Burgos exist only due to short-sighted politicians (or downright megalomaniac such as the man behind Aeroport de Castelló). We learnt the lesson, and there will be no more airports where there's no demand.

And no we don't have the best education in Europe but we do have the best healthcare -so the way we spend our resources is not that bad.
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Old February 28th, 2016, 03:05 PM   #6014
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Quote:
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Don't put motorways and HSR in the same bag. The first ones are cheap to build and the cost-benefit ratio is thus favorable. HSR are prohibitively expensive and the only point for it to exist is that every Spanish region wants to have cutting-edge infrastructure no matter if it's needed or not -and politicians know it and campaign for it. Anyway, all those HSR were planned before recession, and I think we'll not build more of these in the near future. Same happens with airports. Unused airports such as Lleida-Alguaire or Burgos exist only due to short-sighted politicians (or downright megalomaniac such as the man behind Aeroport de Castelló). We learnt the lesson, and there will be no more airports where there's no demand.

And no we don't have the best education in Europe but we do have the best healthcare -so the way we spend our resources is not that bad.
Well, both are pointless. The entire NW of Spain (CyL, Galicia, Asturias, Cantabria) has a surface area the size of England, yet a population the size of metro Barcelona (and shrinking rapidly). 1-2 trunk motorway spin-offs from a main Madrid-Euskadi-Francia motorway and upgraded classical lines would be enough to ensure most transport. Small regional airports could compensate for passenger traffic tbh. By 2040, when the region wll be home to 4.000.000 old people and swaths of abandoned ruralscape, most of the infrastructure built in the past decades will prove pointless. There are no big cities (and the ones that exist are shrinking), no large-scale transit (the region has no meaningful land borders), etc.
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Old February 28th, 2016, 07:47 PM   #6015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway89 View Post
Take airports for instance. Santander, Burgos, Bilbao, Vitoria, San Sebastián, Pamplona and Logroño all have airports. You can fit all of them in a 170x130 km rectangle. For a population of 4 million. I'd rather have a big airport in Vitoria, which is the best location IMO (centered, well connected, plenty of flat land) than 7 scattered airports with almost no flights (except Bilbao).
Airports are necessary in cities like Santander or San Sebastián because communications between these cities and Bilbao or Vitoria have historically been really bad due to our geography. I mean, even today it takes almost 2 hours to drive from Santander to Vitoria, and there's no railway connection between both cities.

If that big airport in Vitoria had to serve Santander, the city would lose thousands of visitors and locals wouldn't be able to get to Madrid or Barcelona in decent travel times, as railway is not a good alternative without HSR.

Maybe Burgos, Logroño or Pamplona could survive without their own airports given their proximity to Vitoria, but that's not feasible for Santander, San Sebastián or Bilbao (in these two last cities, at least before HSR opens in a few years, then they'll have a very good communication with Vitoria).

Sorry for the off-topic!
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Old February 28th, 2016, 08:12 PM   #6016
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off-topic

add Biarritz airport (not far from Irun)
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Old February 28th, 2016, 08:40 PM   #6017
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Airports are necessary in cities like Santander or San Sebastián because communications between these cities and Bilbao or Vitoria have historically been really bad due to our geography. I mean, even today it takes almost 2 hours to drive from Santander to Vitoria, and there's no railway connection between both cities.

If that big airport in Vitoria had to serve Santander, the city would lose thousands of visitors and locals wouldn't be able to get to Madrid or Barcelona in decent travel times, as railway is not a good alternative without HSR.

Maybe Burgos, Logroño or Pamplona could survive without their own airports given their proximity to Vitoria, but that's not feasible for Santander, San Sebastián or Bilbao (in these two last cities, at least before HSR opens in a few years, then they'll have a very good communication with Vitoria).

Sorry for the off-topic!
San Sebastián's airport is located in Hondarribia, not far from Biarritz airport. It takes only 30' more to get there. The problem with Bilbao and Vitoria is that the first is much more populated but it virtually hasn't enough flat land to develop and landings/take-offs are quite dangerous due to strong winds, while Vitoria has plenty of land and the air operations are relatively safer. As for Logroño and Burgos airports, nobody would disagree that they are totally unnecessary. Anyway, now that they're all built, I don't think Santander and Bilbao will ever close. The rest, maybe.
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Old February 28th, 2016, 11:22 PM   #6018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robi_damian View Post
Well, both are pointless. The entire NW of Spain (CyL, Galicia, Asturias, Cantabria) has a surface area the size of England, yet a population the size of metro Barcelona (and shrinking rapidly). 1-2 trunk motorway spin-offs from a main Madrid-Euskadi-Francia motorway and upgraded classical lines would be enough to ensure most transport. Small regional airports could compensate for passenger traffic tbh. By 2040, when the region wll be home to 4.000.000 old people and swaths of abandoned ruralscape, most of the infrastructure built in the past decades will prove pointless. There are no big cities (and the ones that exist are shrinking), no large-scale transit (the region has no meaningful land borders), etc.
As said before, a motorway that would be pointless in France or Germany is not in Spain due to lower construction cost. Building roads draws regions closer, employs people and helps regional development -so we are also trying to revert the population decline of these regions. I can see many other ways to spend money, and possibly some of them are better, but I'm happy with this one.
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Old March 2nd, 2016, 07:50 PM   #6019
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Originally Posted by arctic_carlos View Post
Airports are necessary in cities like Santander or San Sebastián because communications between these cities and Bilbao or Vitoria have historically been really bad due to our geography. I mean, even today it takes almost 2 hours to drive from Santander to Vitoria, and there's no railway connection between both cities.

If that big airport in Vitoria had to serve Santander, the city would lose thousands of visitors and locals wouldn't be able to get to Madrid or Barcelona in decent travel times, as railway is not a good alternative without HSR.

Maybe Burgos, Logroño or Pamplona could survive without their own airports given their proximity to Vitoria, but that's not feasible for Santander, San Sebastián or Bilbao (in these two last cities, at least before HSR opens in a few years, then they'll have a very good communication with Vitoria).

Sorry for the off-topic!
Two hours trip by car is not too much, not enough reason for building a new airport, even 3-4 hours car would still not be enoguh IMO for the few quantity of people living in the region.
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Old March 2nd, 2016, 08:31 PM   #6020
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The airports I'm talking about already exist, what I'm saying is that it would be pointless to close them right now because they have existed for decades and they're too far (and bad communicated) from Vitoria, whose airport has been proposed by Highway89 as gateway for Northern Spain.

Santander and San Sebastián are important touristic destinations. Their airports have plenty of international connections. If you close them, it will be more difficult to reach these cities from other places, and their economies will suffer from that. I agre Biarritz airport could be an alternative for San Sebastián, but Santander is too far from any other airport.

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeropu...eas_y_destinos

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeropu...eas_y_destinos
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