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Old March 3rd, 2016, 04:17 PM   #6021
Highway89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctic_carlos View Post
The airports I'm talking about already exist, what I'm saying is that it would be pointless to close them right now because they have existed for decades and they're too far (and bad communicated) from Vitoria, whose airport has been proposed by Highway89 as gateway for Northern Spain.
Just to clear things up: I was talking about how infrastructure planning hasn't been very good in Spain historically. I'm not proposing that Vitoria should be transformed into the gateway for Northern Spain now. It should/could have been, if infrastructure planning hadn't been so influenced by provincialism. But that's something that had to be done in the past. Now obviously it's too late to tear down what has cost so much and start over. That would mean making the same mistake I'm criticising.
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Old March 3rd, 2016, 07:02 PM   #6022
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Anyway, Vitoria airport is profitable right? If so, I don't see the point in this discussion
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Old March 6th, 2016, 03:02 PM   #6023
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The Spanish Tribunal Administrativo Central de Recursos Contractuales (i.e. Court of Contracts), part of the Ministerio de Hacienda y Administraciones Públicas (Ministry of Taxes and Public Administration) has forced Fomento (Ministry of Public Works) to temporarily cancel €598 M worth contracts.

http://www.minhap.gob.es/Documentaci...2012-01-15.pdf

https://www.boe.es/diario_boe/txt.ph...OE-B-2016-5687

The reason is that Fomento had introduced a clause whereby bids for those contracts were evaluated according to the following criteria (or similar):

0.7 * economical scoring + 0.3 * technical scoring

According to Fomento, the system was used to avoid dangerously low bids (bajas temerarias). The complainant, an Andalusian association of public works companies, argue that the "technical scoring" is flawed because there is a lack of a committee of experts. The Spanish law requires that at least 3 third-party experts evaluate the bids from a technical point of view, but apparently Fomento did not follow the procedure. In other words, Fomento was both judge and party at the same time.

The suspended contracts are the following:

Construction:
12-Z-4340: A-68 Gallur-Mallén.
49-CE-3020.A: A roundabout in Ceuta
12-LC-7380: A-54 Melide-Arzúa
41-O-5470.A: Duplication of the AS-19 access to El Musel port in Gijón
12-LU-4620.A: A-54 Melide-Palas de Rei
15-MA-4790: Refurbishment of the junction Benalmádena-Este, AP-7.


Other contracts (reports, feasibility studies, supervision of works, etc):
30.65/15-3: A-62 Dueñas-Cigales
30.66/15-3: A-62 Venta de Baños-Dueñas
30.67/15-3: A-62 Cigales-Simancas
30.68/15-3: A-62 Simancas-Tordesillas
30.71/15-3: AC-12 Puente del Pasaje
30.31/15-3: A-15 Soria-Navarra, A-76 Ponferrada-Ourense, A-67 Sierrapando-Barreda, V-31 Silla-Valencia, N-621 Panes-Potes, N-232 bypasses of Briones and El Villar de Arnedo.
30.122/15-6: N-332 Cullera-Favara
30.123/15-3: A-1 Third lane to San Agustín de Guadalix
30.128/15-6: A-44 Las Gabias-Alhendín (new bypass of Granada)
30.129/15-6: A-63 Cornellana-Salas
30.131/15-6: A-4 Dos Hermanas-Los Palacios y Villafranca
30.137/15-6: A-32 Southern bypass of Albacete
30.170/15-6: A-5 Third lane km 18 to km 22
30.171/15-3: A-76 Requeijo-A Veiga de Cascallá

Other contracts, including road maintenance, studies for public transport on the accesses to Madrid, etc:
Code:
30.34/15-6
30.35/15-6
30.98/15-1
30.112/15-2
30.39/15-2
30.57/15-2
30.63/15-2
30.82/15-2
30.89/15-2
30.90/15-2
30.96/15-2
30.104/15-2
30.105/15-2
30.106/15-2
30.108/15-2
30.110/15-2
30.113/15-2
30.114/15-2
30.115/15-3
30.116/15-2
30.117/15-3
30.118/15-3
30.119/15-3
30.121/15-3
Details of these contracts can be found here: http://www.fomento.gob.es/MFOM/LANG_...s_asistencias/
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Old March 6th, 2016, 05:35 PM   #6024
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robi_damian View Post
Well, both are pointless. The entire NW of Spain (CyL, Galicia, Asturias, Cantabria) has a surface area the size of England, yet a population the size of metro Barcelona (and shrinking rapidly). 1-2 trunk motorway spin-offs from a main Madrid-Euskadi-Francia motorway and upgraded classical lines would be enough to ensure most transport. Small regional airports could compensate for passenger traffic tbh. By 2040, when the region wll be home to 4.000.000 old people and swaths of abandoned ruralscape, most of the infrastructure built in the past decades will prove pointless. There are no big cities (and the ones that exist are shrinking), no large-scale transit (the region has no meaningful land borders), etc.
Look, sir, I do not know where you learned to post politically motivated, but it is not the first time you throw such darts. I would never launch libels against Romania. Please respect what you don't know, respect us, the northwest. Don't tell lies.
and I advise you to review the addition table

Galicia: 2,750.000
Asturias: 1.060.000
Cantabria: 588.000
Castilla y León: 2.500.000

Total: 6,398.000

Area metro Barcelona: 3,239.000

And remember that we have already a motorway-autovías net, we don't need your poor advice an "upgraded clasical line" ¿are you talking about HSR? or you want us to have a net of roads like we had in the sixties. Ridiculous.

Last edited by pototo1000; March 6th, 2016 at 05:40 PM.
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Old March 6th, 2016, 05:46 PM   #6025
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway89 View Post
The Spanish Tribunal Administrativo Central de Recursos Contractuales (i.e. Court of Contracts), part of the Ministerio de Hacienda y Administraciones Públicas (Ministry of Taxes and Public Administration) has forced Fomento (Ministry of Public Works) to temporarily cancel €598 M worth contracts.

http://www.minhap.gob.es/Documentaci...2012-01-15.pdf

https://www.boe.es/diario_boe/txt.ph...OE-B-2016-5687

The reason is that Fomento had introduced a clause whereby bids for those contracts were evaluated according to the following criteria (or similar):

0.7 * economical scoring + 0.3 * technical scoring

According to Fomento, the system was used to avoid dangerously low bids (bajas temerarias). The complainant, an Andalusian association of public works companies, argue that the "technical scoring" is flawed because there is a lack of a committee of experts. The Spanish law requires that at least 3 third-party experts evaluate the bids from a technical point of view, but apparently Fomento did not follow the procedure. In other words, Fomento was both judge and party at the same time.

The suspended contracts are the following:

Construction:
12-Z-4340: A-68 Gallur-Mallén.
49-CE-3020.A: A roundabout in Ceuta
12-LC-7380: A-54 Melide-Arzúa
41-O-5470.A: Duplication of the AS-19 access to El Musel port in Gijón
12-LU-4620.A: A-54 Melide-Palas de Rei
15-MA-4790: Refurbishment of the junction Benalmádena-Este, AP-7.


Other contracts (reports, feasibility studies, supervision of works, etc):
30.65/15-3: A-62 Dueñas-Cigales
30.66/15-3: A-62 Venta de Baños-Dueñas
30.67/15-3: A-62 Cigales-Simancas
30.68/15-3: A-62 Simancas-Tordesillas
30.71/15-3: AC-12 Puente del Pasaje
30.31/15-3: A-15 Soria-Navarra, A-76 Ponferrada-Ourense, A-67 Sierrapando-Barreda, V-31 Silla-Valencia, N-621 Panes-Potes, N-232 bypasses of Briones and El Villar de Arnedo.
30.122/15-6: N-332 Cullera-Favara
30.123/15-3: A-1 Third lane to San Agustín de Guadalix
30.128/15-6: A-44 Las Gabias-Alhendín (new bypass of Granada)
30.129/15-6: A-63 Cornellana-Salas
30.131/15-6: A-4 Dos Hermanas-Los Palacios y Villafranca
30.137/15-6: A-32 Southern bypass of Albacete
30.170/15-6: A-5 Third lane km 18 to km 22
30.171/15-3: A-76 Requeijo-A Veiga de Cascallá

Other contracts, including road maintenance, studies for public transport on the accesses to Madrid, etc:
Code:
30.34/15-6
30.35/15-6
30.98/15-1
30.112/15-2
30.39/15-2
30.57/15-2
30.63/15-2
30.82/15-2
30.89/15-2
30.90/15-2
30.96/15-2
30.104/15-2
30.105/15-2
30.106/15-2
30.108/15-2
30.110/15-2
30.113/15-2
30.114/15-2
30.115/15-3
30.116/15-2
30.117/15-3
30.118/15-3
30.119/15-3
30.121/15-3
Details of these contracts can be found here: http://www.fomento.gob.es/MFOM/LANG_...s_asistencias/
I'm guessing that these contracts were awarded last year, and they might have been overlooking the legal procedures in order to get them all signed before the elections.

On the other hand, it's good to know that our legal system is working and that is really independent from other ministries.
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Old March 7th, 2016, 07:37 PM   #6026
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Can we expect some major decisions about road projects in the coming months, or is the political mess preventing that? Like awarding new contracts, opening of new autovías, etc.
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Old March 7th, 2016, 07:42 PM   #6027
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A-92 Guadix

A video of A-92 around Guadix in Andalusia. It's a scenic desert area. I filmed it in June 2015, you can still see some snow on the Sierra Nevada.



I used a different wide-angle lens camera on my 2015 trip through Spain. I'm not really happy with it, it picks up too much reflection that I can't get out of the way with a blanket over the dashboard. So I cropped the video a bit to get the worst out of the way. I used a different camera on my later trip to France.

I'm not sure where I'm going this year. I bought a new car so that took a large chunk of my money, but Spain is an interesting destination to visit again, the low fuel price makes it more affordable and there appears to be fewer border troubles than in central Europe.

Spain is a haven for drivers looking for smooth roads, little traffic, few tolls and great scenery.
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Old March 7th, 2016, 07:58 PM   #6028
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
A video of A-92 around Guadix in Andalusia. It's a scenic desert area. I filmed it in June 2015, you can still see some snow on the Sierra Nevada.
Dieses Video ist in Deutschland leider nicht verfügbar.
It's the first time I'd like to watch a road video which was posted in SSC forum but I can't because of the copyright of the music.
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Old March 7th, 2016, 08:37 PM   #6029
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Move to a country that lives in the digital age

But seriously, I try to pick music that is both acceptable, varied and suiting to the video, while at the same time not risking being blocked or muted everywhere. But it's difficult to find music that isn't blocked in Germany. Most audioswap music is terrible (I had to change the audio on some videos due to a strike a while ago).
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Old March 7th, 2016, 08:38 PM   #6030
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Can we expect some major decisions about road projects in the coming months, or is the political mess preventing that? Like awarding new contracts, opening of new autovías, etc.
Well, the budget for 2016 was approved before the elections, so theoretically there shouldn't be any kind of trouble due to the political mess.

However, the Court's decision to cancel some contracts (see previous posts) can actually stop Fomento (and SEITT, a state-owned company) from awarding new contracts. In fact, they seem to have desisted from awarding some more contracts, e.g. the A-2 in Vidreres: http://www.seittsa.es/NR/rdonlyres/A...istimiento.pdf

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I'm not sure where I'm going this year. I bought a new car so that took a large chunk of my money, but Spain is an interesting destination to visit again, the low fuel price makes it more affordable and there appears to be fewer border troubles than in central Europe.

Spain is a haven for drivers looking for smooth roads, little traffic, few tolls and great scenery.
If you decide to visit Spain again, I think we could recommend you some interesting stretches of motorway you haven't visited, like the A-15 between Pamplona and San Sebastián. Do you plan to drive only/mostly on motorways or would you be willing to try out some other roads too?
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Old March 7th, 2016, 09:08 PM   #6031
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I wanted to go to Potes (Cantabria) last year on the way back from Andalusia, but it was raining non-stop along the north coast (while I did not have a drop of rain elsewhere in Spain in two weeks!)

But driving the Madrid motorway system would be kind of cool as well. I could make some kind of triangle, going west, southeast and then northeast, via the north coast, Madrid and then back to Basque Country if weather cooperates.
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Old March 7th, 2016, 09:43 PM   #6032
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
0
I'm not sure where I'm going this year. I bought a new car so that took a large chunk of my money, but Spain is an interesting destination to visit again, the low fuel price makes it more affordable and there appears to be fewer border troubles than in central Europe.

Spain is a haven for drivers looking for smooth roads, little traffic, few tolls and great scenery.
You clearly missed my hometown and meeting me . Also A-2 between Madrid and Zaragoza, especially on a Saturday afternoon or a Sunday morning, when there are no trucks. You won't believe you are in the main route between the two largest cities in the country (Madrid and Barcelona). I once drove it on a Sunday early morning (before 9:00), I was practically alone past Calatayud. I U-turned upon reaching Ariza, however.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Attus View Post
Dieses Video ist in Deutschland leider nicht verfügbar.
It's the first time I'd like to watch a road video which was posted in SSC forum but I can't because of the copyright of the music.
Seriously, Germany sucks. The only good thing they have is beer.
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Old March 7th, 2016, 09:48 PM   #6033
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Seriously, Germany sucks. The only good thing they have is beer.
And advisory speed limit
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Which new motorways are currently under construction?
Which new motorways will be opened next?

See 'New motorway projects' thread

** Please help completing and updating of the list **

Been/driven: A, AND, B, CDN, CH, CZ, D, DK, E, EST, F, FIN, FL, GB, H, I, L, LV, LT, N, NL, P, PL, RO, S, SLO, USA (My cumulative travel mapping)

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Old March 8th, 2016, 12:19 AM   #6034
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I wanted to go to Potes (Cantabria) last year on the way back from Andalusia, but it was raining non-stop along the north coast (while I did not have a drop of rain elsewhere in Spain in two weeks!)

But driving the Madrid motorway system would be kind of cool as well. I could make some kind of triangle, going west, southeast and then northeast, via the north coast, Madrid and then back to Basque Country if weather cooperates.


I strongly know it 'cos my mother was born really near to that village and I go to that area several times per year.

Next time PM me and I'll reccomend you either faster and most scenic road to approach
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Old March 8th, 2016, 04:37 PM   #6035
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Attus View Post
Dieses Video ist in Deutschland leider nicht verfügbar.
It's the first time I'd like to watch a road video which was posted in SSC forum but I can't because of the copyright of the music.
Maybe you can try using a proxy, e.g.: https://www.proxysite.com/de/youtube/

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I wanted to go to Potes (Cantabria) last year on the way back from Andalusia, but it was raining non-stop along the north coast (while I did not have a drop of rain elsewhere in Spain in two weeks!)

But driving the Madrid motorway system would be kind of cool as well. I could make some kind of triangle, going west, southeast and then northeast, via the north coast, Madrid and then back to Basque Country if weather cooperates.
If you're going to the Picos de Europa there are at least three roads you shouldn't miss:
*N-621 Panes-Potes (Desfiladero de La Hermida)
*N-625 Oseja de Sajambre - Santillán (Desfiladero de Los Beyos)
*The road to Caín

If you like mountain hiking, there's a cable car in Fuente Dé, not far from Potes, which takes you next to the highest peaks. Once up there, you can either go for a walk or stay at the mirador and enjoy the view: https://goo.gl/maps/1k5AkrWhE6T2

Madrid motorway system is great, but beware of the speed traps, there's lots of them.
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Old March 8th, 2016, 05:38 PM   #6036
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Road to Caín first of all, please!!!!

Should you are interested, let me know
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Old March 8th, 2016, 10:43 PM   #6037
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We were speaking about empty motorways and pointless airports, so here's a video of... well that



@Chris: Don't miss M-30. It's really something to see. And also the first kilometers of A-2. They're really cool. A-6 and M-40 would complete my to-drive list if I didn't have much more time than one day.
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Old March 8th, 2016, 11:00 PM   #6038
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Well, the Madrid metropolitan motorway network is over 1,000 kilometers long. If I go there I will probably make it a 3-day stop.

The real challenge is to plan a route that covers much of the motorway system without having to backtrack all the time Though you can probably do M-30 + M-40 + M-50 full circles in an afternoon or so. First you start on M-30, loop it, then switch over to M-40, loop it and then do the same with M-50.

I'm guessing that during weekends Madrid traffic isn't too bad. I probably have to keep away from M-30 during rush hour but otherwise I'll be okay I think.
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Old March 8th, 2016, 11:06 PM   #6039
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Can any forumer from Madrid say if M-30 has more or less traffic than M-40?
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Old March 9th, 2016, 01:49 AM   #6040
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Well, the Madrid metropolitan motorway network is over 1,000 kilometers long. If I go there I will probably make it a 3-day stop.

The real challenge is to plan a route that covers much of the motorway system without having to backtrack all the time Though you can probably do M-30 + M-40 + M-50 full circles in an afternoon or so. First you start on M-30, loop it, then switch over to M-40, loop it and then do the same with M-50.

I'm guessing that during weekends Madrid traffic isn't too bad. I probably have to keep away from M-30 during rush hour but otherwise I'll be okay I think.
Quote:
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Can any forumer from Madrid say if M-30 has more or less traffic than M-40?
I'ven stucked on both on different times of rush hours, on different zones (south, north, west, east). M-30 & M-40 has the same traffic, but M-30 it's the most stressful: more lanes, exits (even ABCDF EXITS), taxis, bypasses, maniacs, tunnels, speed cameras…

Outside rush hours no problems.

Chris, normally when i got stressed day, and i just can't sleep i usually take the car at midnight, with music, and I do a little fast trip around Madrid. Always I chose a random combination of M-50, M-40, M-30, M-11, A-6, M-607 and all M-5xx motorways and "orange" highways. I think there are the best in Madrid, "photogenic", scenic, and fun (in terms of having "fun" driving the car).

Also, as curiosity, i recommend to take a round along AZCA Tunnels: at night it's posible to drive fast at the second level of the Tunnels. It's a reminiscence of a past future of a city dominated by the car.

Also you can try the "M-20".

EDIT: few months ago i made a video with a colleague as part of an assignment from the university… perfoming M-30, A-6, Castellana & AZCA at night…

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