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Old August 18th, 2016, 01:06 AM   #6281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
I wouldn't be so sure
Then it turns out I've fulfilled my lifelong goal of only developing close relationships with interesting people
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Old August 18th, 2016, 01:21 PM   #6282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway89 View Post
As regards prefixes, let's check every letter of the alphabet:
Code:
A - Autopista/autovía, Andalusia, etc ✓
B - Barcelona ✓
C - Catalonia ✓
D - ×
E - Eivissa (Ibiza) ✓
F - ×, but FE 
G - ×, but GC, GJ, GM, GR...
H - Huelva ✓
I - ×, but IA (for Illas, Asturias)
J - Jaén ✓
K - × 
L - ×, but LL, LE...
M - Madrid ✓
N - Nacional ✓
O - Oviedo ✓
P - Palencia ✓
Q - ×, but QU (Quirós, Asturias)
R - Radial ✓
S - Santander ✓
T - Tarragona ✓
U - ×
V - Valencia ✓
W - ×
X - ×
Y - ×
Z - Zaragoza ✓
We can also complete E-roads with these weird ones in Lleida province:
E-22: https://goo.gl/maps/61kDLKTM8ky
E-23: https://goo.gl/maps/8z81xgr4uTq
E-25: https://goo.gl/maps/ckTU1DizfFL2

Their category is the same as a national road (N-XXX), and they are signed also with red signs, at least E-22 and E-23 (example 1, example 2). For E-25 I have not found any sings in Street View imagery. They were built at the same time as A-2, and connect this motorway with old N-II. Their name comes from "enlace" (link or connection road). Probably that was a provisional name given during the engineering phase of the project, and never changed later, because I don't know any other case like that in the rest of Spain.

These roads are also mentioned in some Ministerio de Fomento's press releases, and even in one of these they talk about other road E-24 that I have not been able to find:
http://www.fomento.es/NR/rdonlyres/c...44/0601209.pdf
http://www.fomento.gob.es/NR/rdonlyr...1/10042317.pdf
http://www.fomento.gob.es/NR/rdonlyr...asdeLLEIDA.pdf
https://www.boe.es/diario_boe/txt.ph...E-B-2005-84019
(here it is named "carretera de la Caparrella (muy antigua N-II)")

I have also Checked Ministerio de Fomento's inventary of roads, and they do not appear with this name. Maybe they have been transferred to other administrations and these have not updated their signs. See Lleida province in page 29 and 26 of these documents:
http://www.fomento.gob.es/NR/rdonlyr...0/Informe3.pdf
http://www.fomento.gob.es/NR/rdonlyr...1/Informe5.pdf
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Old August 18th, 2016, 03:25 PM   #6283
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See page 26 (First document) and 23 (second one) for N-330b. That is an 'old old' road .

I was hunting for E-24, but nothing. The limits of Catalan comarques (In Spanish comarcas) are only signed in the regional roads (At the expense of provincial borders - there should be a sign saying Girona province here, but since both sides of the tunnel are in Osona comarca nothing is signed ). So you wouldn't expect to see such a sign in the A-2 (Officially the frontage road is also part of the motorway).
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Old August 18th, 2016, 08:05 PM   #6284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carretero View Post
We can also complete E-roads with these weird ones in Lleida province:
E-22: https://goo.gl/maps/61kDLKTM8ky
E-23: https://goo.gl/maps/8z81xgr4uTq
E-25: https://goo.gl/maps/ckTU1DizfFL2

[...]
Well, I don't know what's worse: That, or using full N-XXX numbers for such short roads. Take a look at these connection roads between N-431 and A-49 west of Huelva

N-446: https://www.google.es/maps/@37.25227...3070334,14.75z
N-445: https://www.google.es/maps/@37.26442...2307868,14.75z
N-444: https://www.google.es/maps/@37.28781...2001656,14.75z


Speaking of which, in Logroño we have the A-13, which is just 4 km long and is mostly urban:
https://www.google.es/maps/@42.4726576,-2.413525,14.58z

It should be something like LO-11 instead.
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Old August 18th, 2016, 08:24 PM   #6285
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In Castilla-La Mancha they also use 4-digit road numbers for relatively important secondary roads.

For example CM-3135. It runs from La Roda to Barrax. Not by any means a main road in the region, but also not some kind of country lane that hardly serves anything. Both La Roda and Barrax, despite not being large towns, are hubs for the regional road network. You'd think a 2- or 3-digit route number would be more appropriate.

I'm sure they devised some route numbering plan that looks good on paper, but 4-digit route numbers are not very favorable for signage, nor can they be remembered very well. In this case, CM-3135 is a 7 character route number.

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Old August 19th, 2016, 12:11 AM   #6286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway89 View Post
Speaking of which, in Logroño we have the A-13, which is just 4 km long and is mostly urban:
https://www.google.es/maps/@42.4726576,-2.413525,14.58z

It should be something like LO-11 instead.
I think it was an intent to design an "official" route Logroño-Pamplona, because it connected with the corresponding National road N-111. But Navarra region, whose limits almost reach Logroño city, decided to build its regional motorway A-12 elsewhere not much later, so A-13 stopped having sense as a national route. I agree with you that it should be renamed as LO-11 or something like that.

As it can be seen in the official motorways catalogue, it is named "Logroño-L.P. Navarra" (L.P. = Province Limit):
http://www.fomento.es/NR/rdonlyres/3...40100_2004.pdf

Here you can see A-12 and A-13:
https://goo.gl/maps/xTBGepAUGDw

There is a very small stretch of A-12 that goes out Navarra limits (between Ebro river and LO-20). Here you can see the commemorative milestone:
https://goo.gl/maps/g1GR5Sz83fr
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Old August 19th, 2016, 12:51 AM   #6287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway89 View Post
Well, I don't know what's worse: That, or using full N-XXX numbers for such short roads. Take a look at these connection roads between N-431 and A-49 west of Huelva

N-446: https://www.google.es/maps/@37.25227...3070334,14.75z
N-445: https://www.google.es/maps/@37.26442...2307868,14.75z
N-444: https://www.google.es/maps/@37.28781...2001656,14.75z


Speaking of which, in Logroño we have the A-13, which is just 4 km long and is mostly urban:
https://www.google.es/maps/@42.4726576,-2.413525,14.58z

It should be something like LO-11 instead.



Take a glance here in southern Catalonia

https://www.google.es/maps/dir/40.75...2141!2d40.7472

Link from N-340a (through L'Aldea) to AP-7 is 2 km length
https://www.google.es/maps/dir/40.75...2141!2d40.7472

(current N-340 to AP-7 is just 100 m away)
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Old August 19th, 2016, 02:37 AM   #6288
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Now the economy is recovering is there any sign of PPP road projects anywhere in Spain and how are they to be structured?
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Old August 19th, 2016, 08:38 PM   #6289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
Take a glance here in southern Catalonia

https://www.google.es/maps/dir/40.75...2141!2d40.7472

Link from N-340a (through L'Aldea) to AP-7 is 2 km length
https://www.google.es/maps/dir/40.75...2141!2d40.7472

(current N-340 to AP-7 is just 100 m away)
Oh yes, how could I forget. We have one of those here too: The 3-kilometre long N-126, connecting the AP-68 with the N-232ª!
https://www.google.es/maps/@42.5594311,-2.8708554,15z

(Google Maps is wrong as usual. The stretch north of the AP-68 is named LR-111).

Quote:
Originally Posted by sponge_bob View Post
Now the economy is recovering is there any sign of PPP road projects anywhere in Spain and how are they to be structured?
Both the AG-55 in Galicia and the N-636 Gerediaga-Elorrio, which have opened this month, have been financed via PPP. PPP has been quite common a means of financing autovías among regional administrations, but it has also faced strong criticism.

Fomento don't seem to be a huge fan of PPP, though. The refurbishment projects of the older autovías de primera generación were built via PPP, but the plan seems to have been stopped.

Apart from that, only the A-66 Zamora-Benavente (opened in 2015) was built via PPP. A-12 Burgos-Ibeas was to be built via the same method, but eventually Fomento chose the traditional way.
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Old August 19th, 2016, 09:05 PM   #6290
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The project for the new N-232 across the Querol mountain pass, in Comunitat Valenciana. Almost € 65 M for a ~8 km long 1+1 expressway-like road. The N-232 is also being refurbished between Torre de Arcas and Ráfales, its southernmost stretch in Aragón, just before entering Comunitat Valenciana.












Sources:
http://fomento.es/MFOM/LANG_CASTELLA...20-CS-5680.htm

http://fomento.es/MFOMBPrensa/Notici...0-73fda3e869dd
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Old August 20th, 2016, 11:40 PM   #6291
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Taking over the tolled autopistas once their concession contract runs out would cost the government € 300 million/year according to El Economista

€ 300 million/year is quite a large sum of money, considering the Fomento budget for roads is only € 2.4 billion. On the other hand, constructing and maintaining untolled autovías that run parallel to toll roads is also not free. Not all of the € 300 million/year cost would fall to Fomento, as some of these toll roads are owned by the regional governments. I think M-40 and M-50 are shadow toll concessions? Which are paid by the government already.

Using the € 2.4 billion budget for 26,000 km of national roads (RCE), it comes down to € 90,000 / km per year. Using this figure for the 1480 kilometers of toll roads, it would amount to € 133 million, which is nearly two-thirds less than the quoted € 300 million by El Economista.

These are the end dates of the concession contracts.
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Old August 21st, 2016, 08:49 PM   #6292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctic_carlos View Post
By the way, I've just found this interesting map on the Ministry's website, it shows all road projects being currently built by the Spanish government (it doesn't include regional projects):

http://www.fomento.gob.es/AZ.MFOM.Ob...Web/obranueva/

Although it doesn't mention completion dates, at least the list below the map shows official lengths and budget of each section.
The section lengths are sometimes (a little bit) different to wikipedia and I'm not sure which is correct. Sometimes distributer roads are counted et cetera. I'll not change km of my list.

I've just checked the lengths of A14 which is indicated to have a length of 6km on fomento.gob.es and wikipedia. But the actual length of the section to be opened in Octber is 8km because 2km south of the interchange have already been built with the neighboring section

I think I've (almost?) all projects in my list except N road projects. Does any future N road of the list have expressway-like configuration (2x2 et cetera)?
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Old August 21st, 2016, 08:54 PM   #6293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
I've just checked the lengths of A14 which is indicated to have a length of 6km on fomento.gob.es and wikipedia. But the actual length of the section to be opened in Octber is 8km because 2km south of the interchange have already been built with the neighboring section
That's the typical difference between a construction / contract segment (sometimes called a lot) and a segment that can functionally open to traffic, i.e. from one interchange to the next. Sometimes the best option is just to measure it on Google Earth if recent satellite imagery is available.

Quote:
Does any future N road of the list have expressway-like configuration (2x2 et cetera)?
I can't answer that, but N-roads with autovía standards (or classification for that matter) appear to be quite rare. I recently checked out a segment of N-322 near Albacete, a 4 kilometer segment has been built to motorway standards and indeed has autovía status.

Then there are some autovía N-roads in Basque Country which are not part of the Red de Carreteras del Estado (RCE), or national highway network anymore.
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Old August 21st, 2016, 10:00 PM   #6294
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N-330 North of Zaragoza is almost there, the only thing preventing it from being a motorway is a of couple entrances to a military area on the Southbound carriageway. Anyway, for five years (from the big motorway renumbering in 2003 -until then, free motorways had the number of the road they replaced, thus N-xxx- until 2008) it was signed A-23 . A-68 past Casetas doesn't have motorway status neither, they should resign it as N-232.
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Old August 21st, 2016, 10:20 PM   #6295
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Any news on the Huesca-Lleida freeway gap?
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Old August 22nd, 2016, 05:58 PM   #6296
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Any news on the Huesca-Lleida freeway gap?
No news..... bad news

Halted for years and so on...
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Old August 22nd, 2016, 08:56 PM   #6297
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A-32

Fomento has approved the planning documents for a segment of A-32.

http://fomento.gob.es/MFOMBPrensa/No...4-01a131a4d24a

But I don't quite understand which segment it is.

It says:

El inicio y final del trazado conecta respectivamente con los tramos de la autovía A-32 “Robledo - enlace con la CM- 313” y “Balazote Oeste – Albacete”.

So it would be between CM-313 and Balazote-Oeste.

However, they also say:

La longitud del tramo es de 16,78 km.

The distance between CM-313 and Balazote-Oeste is much shorter than that (around 7-8 km).
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Old August 22nd, 2016, 09:39 PM   #6298
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In the second page of the PDF document attached to the web you linked, there's a map showing more or less this stretch, which would be about 17 km long: https://www.google.es/maps/dir/38.84...a=!4m2!4m1!3e0

Having read the press release, my guess is that they should've written "Balazote Este" instead of "Balazote Oeste", because the description fits pretty much the map in the PDF.
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Old August 23rd, 2016, 01:29 PM   #6299
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I hope this motorway stretch is built anytime soon to avoid the road stretch along the Jardín river.
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Old August 31st, 2016, 08:57 PM   #6300
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Fomento has approved the project for the refurbishment of the N-260 between Congosto de Ventamillo and Campo, in Aragón. The initial cost is € 46.3 M for 12 km.

Since they have not called for tenders yet (not sure how to translate licitación), I haven't got the PDF with the project, but I've found this webpage with photographs of it: http://www.sergioplaza.es/211-mejora...os-al-valle-de

(Sorry for the quality, I had to resize them):















In short, the road will be widened from 5.5 to 8 m (18 to 26 ft). Seven bridges and 2 tunnels will also be built:

1st tunnel: northern portal / southern portal
2nd tunnel: northern portal / southern portal

However, the worst (or best) stretch, the Congosto del Ventamillo, will remain basically untouched for environmental reasons, except for the refurbishment of the road surface:
Quote:
En el proyecto también se contemplan las actuaciones necesarias de conservación y rehabilitación del firme en el tramo correspondiente al Congosto del Ventamillo, entre los puntos kilométricos 388,100 y 391,600, donde por razones ambientales se conserva el trazado y la sección transversal de la carretera actual. También se incluye la rehabilitación de firme en la travesía de Seira.



I'm not sure if this is a good idea, though. They should probably re-route the N-260 via the current HU-V-9601 (don't get fooled by its number, it's actually quite good) and A-1605, which Google maps says is faster:


The only downside is that A-1605 has some stretches just as narrow as the current N-260. However, fixing just a part of the current N-260 will probably attract more traffic and the Congosto del Ventamillo will remain a bottleneck.
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