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Old September 10th, 2016, 08:13 PM   #6361
alserrod
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So do I
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Old September 10th, 2016, 08:34 PM   #6362
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PA-30 Pamplona

PA-30 is the eastern and northern ring road of Pamplona. The first 7 kilometers are built as an autovía. I couldn't find out when it opened to traffic, it already exists on Navarra traffic count maps from 1999. It's a well-used road, the traffic volumes max out near 50,000 vehicles per day.

1. PA-30 begins at an interchange with A-15 on the south side of Pamplona. This is not a full free-flow interchange, but rather an exit where PA-30 connects to A-15.

PA-30-1 by European Roads, on Flickr

2.

PA-30-2 by European Roads, on Flickr

3. The speed limit is 100 km/h.

PA-30-3 by European Roads, on Flickr

4.

PA-30-5 by European Roads, on Flickr

5. Several roads in and around Pamplona are numbered PA-xx

PA-30-7 by European Roads, on Flickr

6.

PA-30-8 by European Roads, on Flickr

7. The autovía ends after 7 kilometers on a roundabout. It turned around here.

PA-30-10 by European Roads, on Flickr
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Old September 10th, 2016, 08:37 PM   #6363
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Even in Navarra the confusing "Francia" signs are used instead of the name of a city...
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Old September 10th, 2016, 08:43 PM   #6364
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As far as I've seen, French city names are only used on motorway border crossings. I've seen Francia 'por Bielsa' or 'por Portalet' or 'port Viella' on secondary roads.
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Old September 10th, 2016, 09:04 PM   #6365
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About the autovía/autopista distinction:

I'm not completely sure, but a possible difference between Spanish autovías and other toll-free motorways in Europe may be the exit density. Autovías seem to have much more exits. Even a hamlet in the middle of nowhere gets its own exit. Of course, there could be political reasons behind this - Politicians like to say that autovías are a sort of "backbone" of the territory, and therefore any town or village should have access to them. This is not necessarily a bad thing, because traffic volumes are usually so low that adding more exits doesn't really compromise safety.

Another thing that IMO keeps Spanish road authorities from re-signing them as autopistas is that people have a worse opinion of the latter, since they're associated with tolls. Politics again.
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Old September 10th, 2016, 09:18 PM   #6366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway89 View Post
About the autovía/autopista distinction:

I'm not completely sure, but a possible difference between Spanish autovías and other toll-free motorways in Europe may be the exit density. Autovías seem to have much more exits. Even a hamlet in the middle of nowhere gets its own exit. Of course, there could be political reasons behind this - Politicians like to say that autovías are a sort of "backbone" of the territory, and therefore any town or village should have access to them. This is not necessarily a bad thing, because traffic volumes are usually so low that adding more exits doesn't really compromise safety.

Another thing that IMO keeps Spanish road authorities from re-signing them as autopistas is that people have a worse opinion of the latter, since they're associated with tolls. Politics again.
Exit density is very high in autopistas running through urban areas. We have plenty of them in Barcelona: C-31, C-32, B-20 or B-23, to name a few. IIRC M-30, M-40, M-45 and M-50 do also have autopista signage.

As for rural autopistas, many were built with an exit density similar to newer autovías, though some have been rebranded as such -A-31 and A-66, for example. I guess the reason for autovías having more exits is the fact that they frequently are a duplication of an existing road -and you don't want to leave a village with no road access whatsoever.

Historically speaking, motorway construction in Spain has seen three phases and two different road categories: high-standard, (mostly) tolled autopistas in the 1970s, cost-effective autovías (and some toll-free autopistas) in the 1980s and 90s, and high-standard autovías (and tolled autopistas) from the 2000s onwards.

The tolling issue looks irrelevant to me. Most countries with toll roads (Italy, France, Portugal, Austria...) do not need an additional road category when there's a toll.

Last but not least, the autovía sign does not look like an autovía. It looks like a divided highway, the kind where you might encounter at-grade intersections -and we have none of them in Spain! It's confusing and IMHO we should drop it and stick to the autopista sign, which is what you'll find in every other European country.
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Old September 10th, 2016, 09:20 PM   #6367
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High exit densities are not uncommon in other countries. Though autovía exit density is relatively high compared to the population density in rural areas.

By the way, is there going to be a third election round in Spain? I've read something about a rule that they can't open new infrastructure 60 days before or after an election. And it's almost a year ago since the last autovía (of the RCE network) opened to traffic (A-8 in Cantabria on 24 October 2015).
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Old September 10th, 2016, 09:24 PM   #6368
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Roads may be opened, what's banned is official inaugurations.
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Old September 10th, 2016, 09:29 PM   #6369
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I see. The Fomento website has a 'Convocatorias' section that hasn't added upcoming events in almost a year (such as motorway inaugurations), I guess it's related to the political situation in Spain. It used to be updated almost daily.
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Old September 10th, 2016, 09:31 PM   #6370
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
3. There is a second Elorrio interchange right after that, and it has an exit number. I wonder where it is based on, perhaps the distance from the Navarra border?

N-636-5 by European Roads, on Flickr
I vote distance from Bilbao.
https://www.google.es/maps/dir/43.26...a=!4m2!4m1!3e0
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Old September 10th, 2016, 09:37 PM   #6371
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That can't be . The marker in the first picture says 41, while the one on the third says 43.
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Old September 10th, 2016, 09:46 PM   #6372
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Yes, the distance markers are increasing towards Bilbao, so it must start on the other side of the region / province.
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Old September 10th, 2016, 09:59 PM   #6373
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
And it's almost a year ago since the last autovía (of the RCE network) opened to traffic (A-8 in Cantabria on 24 October 2015).
I think AC-15 also counts as part of the RCE network. It opened last June.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arctic_carlos View Post
June 7, 2016

First opening of the year in Spain. AC-15 (5.1 km) has opened today. It's the motorway access to Corunna (A Coruña) outer port, in Galicia.

It includes a 433 m tunnel and several shorter viaducts.

Official press release:

http://www.fomento.es/NR/rdonlyres/d...C3%B1aAC15.pdf
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Old September 10th, 2016, 10:55 PM   #6374
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
Next time drive ahead. In the km. 3 of A-222 you will cross under the railway HSL and later, a 16 straight way, not very common in this area. It is the second largest straight road in Aragon (first one is 16,5 km and third one 15,8 km).
All in the middle of a vaste desert, so near to Ebro river!!!
Are you sure? I measured all three of them, and I got 17,8; 16,3 and 14,6 km respectively.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I agree, the distinction is a bit silly now and the autovía signs are rather different for the road type compared to the rest of Europe. It's probably the sole reason why map makers often fail to portray an accurate road map of Spain, where many autovías are inconsistently shown as lower-class roads, while they are in fact absolutely fine motorways.
I agree. They should scrap the autovía designation and sign all those that are up to motorway standards as autopista (That's why usually translate both terms to 'motorway'). And redesignate vía para automóviles as autovía, as I feel both terms have the same meaning.
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Old September 11th, 2016, 04:07 PM   #6375
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway89 View Post
That can't be . The marker in the first picture says 41, while the one on the third says 43.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Yes, the distance markers are increasing towards Bilbao, so it must start on the other side of the region / province.
It cannot be distance to Gipuzkoa, it's to near, maybe distance to Navarra near Alsasua? but dunno, that looks to strange to me.
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Old September 11th, 2016, 04:54 PM   #6376
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Google Maps doesn't show it but N-636 in Guipuzkoa becomes GI-632, and it seems the km markers are consistent (within hundreds of meters) with the placed in Bizkaia.

km 35 of N-636: https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0953...7i13312!8i6656
km 35 of GI-632, 300 meters later: https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0937...7i13312!8i6656

So, the km 0 of both roads is probably Beasain, where GI-632 intersects N-I.
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Old September 11th, 2016, 07:41 PM   #6377
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Yeah, that makes sense. There was an old comarcal road C-6322 Beasain-Durango via Deskarga and Kanpazar mountain passes.
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Old September 11th, 2016, 09:24 PM   #6378
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I've noticed that the short stretch of AP-2 between Molins de Rei and AP-7 has been renamed to B-23.

Marker kilometers:

October 2015
https://goo.gl/maps/e2vcEdBejTD2

May 2016
https://goo.gl/maps/4j5wixk3YWS2


Main signage:

October 2015
https://goo.gl/maps/NN73Z75t81B2

May 2016
https://goo.gl/maps/wqmdysGS2nH2
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Old September 11th, 2016, 10:46 PM   #6379
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Shall all national motorways with AP prefix in this region be renamed to B-** number roads (motorways) ?
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Old September 11th, 2016, 11:19 PM   #6380
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There are only two ones

(Alfajarin)-Soses-El Vendrell (AP-2) + this smal stretch of AP-2

Border with France-Ulldecona (AP-7)

Rest ones are managed by Catalan government and will be C-XX
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