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Old October 4th, 2016, 08:17 PM   #6441
Fane40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
Conversely it is always signed "Saragosse" on N134/E07 road. It is quite different to Zaragoza but every one knows it
Yes, I believe you are right.
More "Huesca" which is the same in our two languages if I remember right.
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Old October 4th, 2016, 08:23 PM   #6442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
In Spanish it is Bayona (even that town, even a small galician village)

Toulouse is Tolosa but often writen in French for the reason hoy said
Ok for Toulouse.
I have already seen "Baiona" in Galicia on signs roads, south of Vigo.
Certainly a very good place to live, as the french one.
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Old October 4th, 2016, 08:24 PM   #6443
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fane40 View Post
But I have to say that spanish are better than french to mention cities of other countries.
I'm sorry but I disagree.

French cities have only been added to our signs very recenty, and in many cases (e.g. along AP-7) a França/Francia sign still appears, instead of the name of a French city like Perpignan or Montpellier.

On the contrary, in France the names of Spanish cities such as Barcelone or Saint-Sebastien have been present in the signs for ages!

This distance sign of the picture near Pamplona with plenty of French cities is just a rare exception; I hope it will be extended soon to other motorways, but it's not common at all. And given that AP-15 is managed by the government of Navarre, I doubt it will be extended to State-owned motorways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
I wonder how many foreign drivers do understand that Bayona and Burdeos are actually Bayonne and Bordeaux. I think foreign cities should always be signposted in their native name (or English name, if there's one widely used).
The Gênes signs on French A8 have always fascinated me.
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Last edited by arctic_carlos; October 4th, 2016 at 08:44 PM.
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Old October 4th, 2016, 10:03 PM   #6444
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctic_carlos View Post

This distance sign of the picture near Pamplona with plenty of French cities is just a rare exception; I hope it will be extended soon to other motorways, but it's not common at all. And given that AP-15 is managed by the government of Navarre, I doubt it will be extended to State-owned motorways.
Yep. IIRC, current Fomento regulations say that only the local name must be used (Bayonne, Toulouse, Bourdeaux, Bragança...).

However, other road authorities have their own criteria. I'm wouldn't be surprised if I saw a sign in Catalonia with "Perpinyà" written on it.
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Old October 4th, 2016, 10:14 PM   #6445
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I'm pretty sure there are signs for 'Perpinyà' along AP-7.
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Old October 5th, 2016, 01:56 PM   #6446
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I'm pretty sure there are signs for 'Perpinyà' along AP-7.

Yes, there are. I drove there very recently.
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Old October 5th, 2016, 09:11 PM   #6447
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Ayamonte - Sevilla (24.09.2016)

A49


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Old October 5th, 2016, 09:11 PM   #6448
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Old October 5th, 2016, 09:21 PM   #6449
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Thanks. It's great to see that the new signage of SE-40 has already been installed. The interchange looks almost ready.
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Old October 6th, 2016, 02:03 PM   #6450
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway89 View Post
Yep. IIRC, current Fomento regulations say that only the local name must be used (Bayonne, Toulouse, Bourdeaux, Bragança...).

However, other road authorities have their own criteria. I'm wouldn't be surprised if I saw a sign in Catalonia with "Perpinyà" written on it.
Yes, this is common in the Basque Country as well. In road signs the names of French Basque towns and cities will always appear written using Basque ortography (Baiona instead of Bayona, for example), even if the French name is the "official" one (Bayonne):



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Old October 6th, 2016, 11:52 PM   #6451
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Obviously, last one is just besides the border (and first one too, N-121 ends just in the border)
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Old October 7th, 2016, 02:38 AM   #6452
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Yes, the point was to say that the place names are written in Basque.
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Old October 7th, 2016, 07:21 PM   #6453
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A-12

Construction of a 4.2* km 2x2 section of A-12 between Burgos (A-1/AP-1) and Ibeas de Juarros has been awarded (45M€). Expected duration: 30 months. Let's hope construction starts soon.

http://www.rtvcyl.es/Noticia/FD3164B.../ibeas/juarros

* The new section will be in fact a little longer, as it includes more than 3 km of flyovers in the interchange with A-1 and AP-1. The length of 4.2 km just refers to the main carriageways of the motorway.
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Old October 7th, 2016, 09:46 PM   #6454
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A-12 Logroño-Burgos is the main missing link in the Spanish motorway network. The route between Catalonia/Aragón and Galicia will be much shorter thanks to it. Today, most people use AP-68 and AP-1, which is quite a detour.

I don't think it will be completed soon (we may have to wait another 15 years) but at least it's good to see that things are moving again.
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Old October 7th, 2016, 10:01 PM   #6455
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Do you think AP-69 makes a chance to be constructed? Even as an untolled autovía? And what about A-73 Burgos - Aguilar de Campoo?

There are quite some plans for northern Castilla y León that may not be realized anytime soon. Such as A-15 Soria - Tudela, A-60 Valladolid - León, A-65 Benavente - Palence, AP-69 Miranda de Ebro - Reinosa, A-73 Burgos - Aguilar de Campoo, etc.

A-11 seems to be progressing though.
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Old October 8th, 2016, 01:00 AM   #6456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Do you think AP-69 makes a chance to be constructed? Even as an untolled autovía? And what about A-73 Burgos - Aguilar de Campoo?
IMO, AP69 will take looooooooooong time

I drove on A73 two months ago. Motorway fine but later, nightmare. They are 60ish road 1x1 km and it was an August friday with heavy traffic.
A lot of people take it because Madrid-Santander is free via Burgos (and not via Valladolid) and only 60 km road.

At Aguilar, I was the only driver I took another way, rest of cars, direction Santander.
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Old October 8th, 2016, 12:49 PM   #6457
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Do you think AP-69 makes a chance to be constructed? Even as an untolled autovía?
I don't think AP-69 (Miranda de Ebro - Reinosa) will ever make sense, even if it were to be built as an untolled autovía (A-69). The population density of the area is very low, and even the majority of residents of the area rejected it due to its big environmental impact. Besides, the alternative route via Bilbao (AP-68 + A-8) is not such a long detour to go from the Ebro valley to Santander.

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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
And what about A-73 Burgos - Aguilar de Campoo?
A-73 will be completed sooner or later. Besides the short section in service near Burgos, there's another one near Aguilar de Campoo in early construction stage. This is the traditional route between Madrid and Santander, and the detour of A-67 via Palencia (together with the tolls of AP-6) hasn't changed that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
There are quite some plans for northern Castilla y León that may not be realized anytime soon. Such as A-15 Soria - Tudela, A-60 Valladolid - León, A-65 Benavente - Palence
A-15 Soria - Tudela: Very low on the priority list. Maybe the southern bypass of Soria (La Mallona - Los Rábanos - Fuensaúco) will be built in order to connect A-15 with A-11 and then N-122 towards Tudela, as the project is ready and only needs to be tendered.

A-60 Valladolid - León: There are two short sections near Valladolid and León in service, and a further section near León under construction (which was delayed due to financial problems but also due to the finding of archaeological rests of a Roman city). But once that's ready, we can forget about the construction of more sections of this autovía. The sections that have been built were actually very necessary, as they were crowded city accesses, but the missing 90 km are not necessary at all given current traffic levels.

A-65 Benavente - Palencia: I think this one is not really necessary, given the existence of alternative motorways. The sole purpose of A-65 would be to connect Vigo and Ourense to France via Burgos and the Basque Country, avoiding the detour via León or Tordesillas. A cheaper alternative could be the construction of a shorter link between A-66 and A-231 south of León (between Valdevimbre and Palanquinos, for example), which would render that route more attractive for truck drivers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
A-11 seems to be progressing though.
Fortunately. However it's high time they started the section between Tudela de Duero and Aranda de Duero. And I'm afraid A-11 won't generate much additional traffic until A-15 is built between Soria and Tudela.
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Old October 8th, 2016, 02:12 PM   #6458
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The traffic volumes just aren't there for A-60 and A-65.

N-601 carries only 2,500 - 4,500 vehicles per day in the rural areas between Valladolid and León. N-610 carries only 2,000 - 4,000 vehicles per day between Benavente and Palencia, even dipping below 2,000 vpd east of Benavente.
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Old October 8th, 2016, 04:23 PM   #6459
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I think it's almost a miracle A-15 got built from Medinaceli to Soria. According to Fomento, the road carries only 4,500 vehicles per day. I understand the need to connect a remote provincial capital to the motorway network, but dang, that's a low traffic volume.

In the Netherlands such a traffic volume would be considered appropriate for a 60 km/h road without a center lane marking...
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Old October 8th, 2016, 05:17 PM   #6460
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I think it's almost a miracle A-15 got built from Medinaceli to Soria. According to Fomento, the road carries only 4,500 vehicles per day. I understand the need to connect a remote provincial capital to the motorway network, but dang, that's a low traffic volume.

In the Netherlands such a traffic volume would be considered appropriate for a 60 km/h road without a center lane marking...
However, it's not like you'll drive for 200 kilometers on such a road in the Netherlands. It's just plain dangerous, and tiring, to drive such distances on undivided roads where traffic is high enough for a distraction to end in a head-on collision (and 4,500 vehicles a day is this high).

Spain is much emptier than the rest of Western Europe. Like it or not, you can't decide whether a road will be built or not with the same criteria you'd use in France or Belgium. How many places in Europe have the population density of Soria province? I can only think of the Scottish Highlands or northern Sweden. And these places are too far from any big city.
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