daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old May 22nd, 2017, 03:07 PM   #7041
sponge_bob
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,954
Likes (Received): 2205

Quote:
Originally Posted by verreme View Post
I hope it's never built. When toll collection ends in AP-7, which is set to happen in 2021 IIRC, a parallel motorway would be useless.
I do not agree, Valencia is set to become Europes 4th biggest container port fairly soon at the rate it has grown in the last 10 years, going from 8th in 2007 to 5th in 2015 and is the biggest one in the Med nowadays.
sponge_bob no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old May 22nd, 2017, 03:41 PM   #7042
Aranou
However
 
Aranou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: On vull
Posts: 1,584
Likes (Received): 1241

Including Tanger Med?
__________________
Som qui som
Aranou no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 22nd, 2017, 04:01 PM   #7043
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,791

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aranou View Post
Including Tanger Med?
Well... it is matter of issue in Spain but.... with the same quotes, Tanger Med IS NOT in the Mediterranean but in the Atlantic (as well as Cadiz harbour is not considered as a Mediterranean harbour but an Atlantic one)

Nevertheless, the point is to make ships with destination wherever in Mediterranean to take part of goods off and keep direct to destination.
Those goods can be transported by train or truck (specially if within Spain).
Ship companies will prefer to make only one call to make full trip faster and... as far as I know, should they call at Tanger Med, they will have not easy to move freight within Europe by train or truck
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 23rd, 2017, 12:04 AM   #7044
verreme
Registered User
 
verreme's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 1,392
Likes (Received): 645

Quote:
Originally Posted by sponge_bob View Post
I do not agree, Valencia is set to become Europes 4th biggest container port fairly soon at the rate it has grown in the last 10 years, going from 8th in 2007 to 5th in 2015 and is the biggest one in the Med nowadays.
This may justify another motorway by 2030 or 2040, but today truck traffic on the three axis along the Mediterranean coast in Castellón province (AP-7, N-340 and CV-10) does not justify two motorways. On the other hand, car traffic on AP-7 is already high on summer weekends, and once the motorway becomes toll-free it will be just unbearable. A widening to 2x3 is all this region needs in the next 20-30 years.
__________________

sponge_bob liked this post
verreme no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 23rd, 2017, 01:13 AM   #7045
sponge_bob
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,954
Likes (Received): 2205

Yes Verreme but at least one of those roads will need a highly disruptive rebuild before then. You need redundancy in the system and 2 2x2 motorways is better than 1 2x3. You can reroute onto it when doing the rebuild.

Don't forget there is a lot of 1970s and 1980s motorway between Valencia and Barcelona and it won't last forever, especially if Artics hammer it solidly 24/7. This is now a major European logistics corridor.

I don't think you have the same HGV traffic south of Valencia/Alicante and the roads will last much longer down there as a consequence.
sponge_bob no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 23rd, 2017, 07:18 PM   #7046
verreme
Registered User
 
verreme's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 1,392
Likes (Received): 645

It's actually the other way round. AP-7 south of Valencia is crowded in summer, even with tolls. There's a high concentration of summer resort towns within that strip of coast -something that doesn't happen north of Valencia. Widening this motorway, or finishing A-38, should be considered even before tolls cease to be collected.

As for a widening being disruptive, when AP-7 was widened to 2x3 between La Jonquera and Tarragona it was no big deal, and we're talking about a (much) busier motorway. Speed was limited to 80 km/h, and 2x2 capacity was kept during the full construction period. And it was not just a widening -many junctions were rebuilt, too. Between L'Hospitalet de l'Infant (current end of the third lane) and Sagunt, traffic is much lighter, and no junctions would need to be rebuilt. More such widenings have been performed in the Spanish road network without any need to close roads or reroute traffic.
__________________
verreme no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 23rd, 2017, 07:22 PM   #7047
arctic_carlos
Recondita armonia
 
arctic_carlos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Sitges - Barcelona
Posts: 4,724
Likes (Received): 3945

A-27

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
A27: Montblanc-East – Valls-North 7.3km (2008 to 2020) – projectmap
6 months after the Minister of Public Works officially announced it, construction has finally resumed on A-27 between Valls and Montblanc. The section includes a 1,5km tunnel under the Lilla mountain pass.



Source: http://www.lavanguardia.com/local/ta...illa-a-27.html
__________________
Wer kämpft, kann verlieren. Wer nicht kämpft, hat schon verloren.

Bertolt Brecht

ChrisZwolle liked this post
arctic_carlos no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 23rd, 2017, 07:26 PM   #7048
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,791

in google we can see way on till entry of tunnel works
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 23rd, 2017, 07:33 PM   #7049
arctic_carlos
Recondita armonia
 
arctic_carlos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Sitges - Barcelona
Posts: 4,724
Likes (Received): 3945

Quote:
Originally Posted by verreme View Post
As for a widening being disruptive, when AP-7 was widened to 2x3 between La Jonquera and Tarragona it was no big deal, and we're talking about a (much) busier motorway. Speed was limited to 80 km/h, and 2x2 capacity was kept during the full construction period. And it was not just a widening -many junctions were rebuilt, too. Between L'Hospitalet de l'Infant (current end of the third lane) and Sagunt, traffic is much lighter, and no junctions would need to be rebuilt. More such widenings have been performed in the Spanish road network without any need to close roads or reroute traffic.
The third lane of AP-7 ends in exit 35 (Salou); Salou - L'Hospitalet de l'Infant is 2x2. However, between La Móra and L'Hospitalet de l'Infant we must take into account that A-7 carries a great amount of traffic, which in the end means a combined capacity (A-7 + AP-7) of 2x4 between L'Hospitalet de l'Infant and Salou and of 2x5 between Salou and La Móra.

Once they extend A-7 to Torredembarra we will really see both motorways as part of the same trunk route, especially if they build proper interchanges between them in Torredembarra and south of L'Hospitalet de l'Infant. Hence, I don't think AP-7 should be widened to 2x3 between Salou and L'Hospitalet de l'Infant, but just between L'Hospitalet de l'Infant and Sagunt, shelving the project of building a parallel A-7 between L'Hospitalet de l'Infant and Vilanova d'Alcolea.
__________________
Wer kämpft, kann verlieren. Wer nicht kämpft, hat schon verloren.

Bertolt Brecht
arctic_carlos no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 23rd, 2017, 07:37 PM   #7050
arctic_carlos
Recondita armonia
 
arctic_carlos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Sitges - Barcelona
Posts: 4,724
Likes (Received): 3945

Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
in google we can see way on till entry of tunnel works
Google Maps aerial footage is pretty recent, from March 2017, but it shows the works exactly in the same condition they were in 2010, when the works were suspended, without a single machine working on them. They just resumed the works very recently.
__________________
Wer kämpft, kann verlieren. Wer nicht kämpft, hat schon verloren.

Bertolt Brecht
arctic_carlos no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 27th, 2017, 10:51 PM   #7051
CNGL
Leudimin
 
CNGL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Huesca
Posts: 7,459
Likes (Received): 1936

Today I've found something I thought it didn't exist in Spain: An expressway . There's a section of N-II that bypasses the Zaragoza neighborhood of Santa Isabel to the South that is built to motorway standards, complete with a 120 km/h speed limit. The only thing that makes me not to classify it as a motorway is the lack of blue signage along it, thus I consider it an expressway instead as autovia signs are present anyway.
__________________
Neque porro quisquam est qui dolorem ipsum, quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non nunquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem - Cicero, De finibus bonorum et malorum, from which placeholder text is derived.
CNGL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 28th, 2017, 12:20 AM   #7052
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,791

and you can fin a two followed traffic signals in six languages in that road.
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 31st, 2017, 04:36 AM   #7053
Reivajar
__________
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 12,081
Likes (Received): 3340

Quote:
Originally Posted by CNGL View Post
Today I've found something I thought it didn't exist in Spain: An expressway . There's a section of N-II that bypasses the Zaragoza neighborhood of Santa Isabel to the South that is built to motorway standards, complete with a 120 km/h speed limit. The only thing that makes me not to classify it as a motorway is the lack of blue signage along it, thus I consider it an expressway instead as autovia signs is present anyway.
I would say there are some additional cases of this kind of separated highway without the consideration of autopista or autovía. It comes to my mind the section of the M-506 between the A-4 and San Martin de la Vega, South of Madrid. Actually, the whole M-506 would be this kind of separated highway except in the proximity of the A-42.

Other cases of separated highways with white signs are found in Seville. For example, the new expressway La Rinconada - Seville is as well signed in white, although I think it has Autovía signs in the ramps.
Reivajar no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 31st, 2017, 12:38 PM   #7054
verreme
Registered User
 
verreme's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 1,392
Likes (Received): 645

On N-II in Zaragoza there are "start of autovía" and "end of autovía" signs (only in the eastern terminus since the roundabout in the other end does only lead to Z-40, which is another autovía). Other signage is white. I'm not sure whether this is a mistake or not since the only destinations signed are all reachead via carreteras convencionales and thus not required to be signed in blue. So it's definitely an autovía.

In other parts of Spain there are roads built to autovía standards but that don't have any autovía signs. Apart from M-506 in Madrid, N-636 in the Basque Country is another example. Also C-42 near Tortosa or the recently completed Ma-30 in Mallorca.
__________________
verreme no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 31st, 2017, 01:25 PM   #7055
arctic_carlos
Recondita armonia
 
arctic_carlos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Sitges - Barcelona
Posts: 4,724
Likes (Received): 3945

Or C-31 between Barcelona Airport and Castelldefels. Although there are still some non-controlled accesses there.
__________________
Wer kämpft, kann verlieren. Wer nicht kämpft, hat schon verloren.

Bertolt Brecht
arctic_carlos no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 31st, 2017, 03:11 PM   #7056
CNGL
Leudimin
 
CNGL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Huesca
Posts: 7,459
Likes (Received): 1936

With all the autovía mess, I developed my own road classification. It is based on the signage coloring, and wether is fully grade separated or not. If it has blue signage and has full access control, it's a motorway (in Spanish I refer to those as autopista even if they don't have the chopsticks sign). If it fails to meet one of those two criteria, i.e. if it has white signage or some at-grade intersections, it's an expressway (a truly autovía). If it fails both criteria, it may be 4 lane dual carriageway, but it's still a regular road for me (for example N-330 North of Zaragoza). In addition, any two lane undivided road with full access control also qualifies for expressway status, like N-320 Southeast of Guadalajara (bonus points if they have the motorroad sign, i.e. vía para automóviles which conveys the same idea as autovía for me).
__________________
Neque porro quisquam est qui dolorem ipsum, quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non nunquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem - Cicero, De finibus bonorum et malorum, from which placeholder text is derived.
CNGL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 1st, 2017, 05:23 PM   #7057
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,612
Likes (Received): 19400

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
This is also N-260, in Gerri de la Sal (it is not a one-way street). There was alternating traffic, but even without the roadworks it's very narrow.


N-260 Gerri de la Sal by European Roads, on Flickr
This project has been completed:
__________________

my clinched highways / travel mapping • highway photography @ Flickr and Youtube

arctic_carlos, verreme liked this post
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 1st, 2017, 10:16 PM   #7058
arctic_carlos
Recondita armonia
 
arctic_carlos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Sitges - Barcelona
Posts: 4,724
Likes (Received): 3945

This project was chosen to save funds instead of a planned bypass tunnel behind the houses of the picture (whose works had already started back in 2010), which would have completely eliminated the bottleneck. Now that section of the road is wider, but there's still a narrow section left with buildings on both sides of the road.

https://www.google.es/maps/@42.32359...7i13312!8i6656
__________________
Wer kämpft, kann verlieren. Wer nicht kämpft, hat schon verloren.

Bertolt Brecht

Last edited by arctic_carlos; June 1st, 2017 at 10:53 PM.
arctic_carlos no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 1st, 2017, 10:50 PM   #7059
verreme
Registered User
 
verreme's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 1,392
Likes (Received): 645

AFAIK they even expropriated the houses and kicked out the people that lived there. Now there's a bunch of empty houses and a road that will never be built. And the bottleneck is still there. There's a word in Spanish for this: chapuza (bodgery).
__________________

Kunagi liked this post
verreme no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 5th, 2017, 07:20 PM   #7060
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,612
Likes (Received): 19400

A-15 Autovía de Leitzaran

Some photos of A-15 from Irurtzun to Andoain in Navarra and Basque Country. It is called the Autovía de Leitzaran and opened to traffic in 1995.


A-15-2 by European Roads, on Flickr


A-15-3 by European Roads, on Flickr


A-15-5 by European Roads, on Flickr


A-15-7 by European Roads, on Flickr


A-15-11 by European Roads, on Flickr


A-15-20 by European Roads, on Flickr


A-15-22 by European Roads, on Flickr


A-15-25 by European Roads, on Flickr


A-15-26 by European Roads, on Flickr


A-15-29 by European Roads, on Flickr


A-15-30 by European Roads, on Flickr


A-15-36 by European Roads, on Flickr


A-15-38 by European Roads, on Flickr


A-15-40 by European Roads, on Flickr


A-15-41 by European Roads, on Flickr
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
autopista, carreteras, españa, highways, motorways, road, spain, spain in the world, via rapida

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 07:33 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium