daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old July 5th, 2017, 10:44 AM   #7221
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,844

Be sure they will make any extra works providing they enlarge concessions...
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old July 5th, 2017, 11:35 AM   #7222
CNGL
Leudimin
 
CNGL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Huesca
Posts: 7,468
Likes (Received): 1937

Quote:
Originally Posted by arctic_carlos View Post
As alserrod points out, construction has started today on the new section of A-68 between Gallur and Mallén (15.1 km). It will have a cost of €49.75M (€3.29M/km). Current AADT is 13,000, 50% of which are trucks. Opening to traffic is expected in 2020 (source).

When completed (together with its neighboring Figueruelas - Gallur section, under construction since late 2015), there will be a continuous 83 km section of toll-free A-68 between Zaragoza and south of Alfaro, parallel to tolled AP-68 (Spanish style ).

Map of the new section:



Official press release (in Spanish): http://www.fomento.gob.es/MFOMBPrens...d-0c2ddd490672
I'd like to know from where Fomento get their map data, since A-1301 doesn't run on that road (which is CV-620, or ZV-620 as I call it as CV-620 is a section of old N-340 near Xativa in Valencia) but instead to Ainzon, and A-1302 doesn't exist at all (the road in question actually being CP-1 provincial road), that sign at the infamous stop in Borja is a goof.
__________________
Neque porro quisquam est qui dolorem ipsum, quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non nunquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem - Cicero, De finibus bonorum et malorum, from which placeholder text is derived.
CNGL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 5th, 2017, 04:42 PM   #7223
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,631
Likes (Received): 19426

Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
Be sure they will make any extra works providing they enlarge concessions...
I wonder if some concession companies are willing to give up their concession at the end of their period. AP-68 will be parallelled by A-68 for a long stretch, meaning AP-68 has almost no benefit to drivers anymore, why drive AP-68 at a high toll rate while you can drive the exact same speed on a toll-free autovía right next to it? These concessions will become increasingly unviable to finance for concession companies.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 5th, 2017, 05:32 PM   #7224
arctic_carlos
Recondita armonia
 
arctic_carlos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Sitges - Barcelona
Posts: 4,740
Likes (Received): 3991

I'd rather say that the main problem for concession companies is that the Spanish government is not willing to renew their concessions once they expire. It's an issue that has been subject to political debate for a long time, but we will see its development in a couple of years, when some of the concessions (AP-2, some parts of AP-7) start to expire.

The regional government of Catalonia, for instance, plans a vignette system for all motorways in its territory to replace the current toll system (including AP-2 and AP-7), but the Spanish government doesn't agree. So we'll have to wait a little until a solution is found. What seems quite likely is that the current system with private concession companies will no longer continue. Toll motorways will either become toll-free or tolled but with lower fares and managed by the State (à la basque).
__________________
Wer kämpft, kann verlieren. Wer nicht kämpft, hat schon verloren.

Bertolt Brecht
arctic_carlos no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 5th, 2017, 05:41 PM   #7225
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,844

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I wonder if some concession companies are willing to give up their concession at the end of their period. AP-68 will be parallelled by A-68 for a long stretch, meaning AP-68 has almost no benefit to drivers anymore, why drive AP-68 at a high toll rate while you can drive the exact same speed on a toll-free autovía right next to it? These concessions will become increasingly unviable to finance for concession companies.


Current "Recajo" exit seems will have booths for a while only. It is supposed to have main booths before and after Logroño, incluiding before Navarrete and after Agoncillo. This is, for a Bilbao-Zaragoza, taking ticket at Bilbao, paying at Navarrete, free till Agoncillo, ticket again and paying at Alagon (25 km ahead Zaragoza).

I guess they will take it asap providing they will enlarge concessions... this country works in this way always. A little strech untolled, a long time tolled for the rest of streches.


In the case of A-68, there is free motorway in Navarra... and using it means leaving at Gallur, having 80 km/h for 7 km, later full motorway but about 8 km to take again AP-68.

What you can do now is leaving at Recajo, taking LO-20 - A-12 and taking again AP-68 at Navarrete (2 km detour) only.


If high traffic or a lot of local traffic I think two paralel motorways, with first with a lot of exits, second with barely exit is not a bad idea.

It not enough traffic, one motorway should be enough.

That's why I consider A-68 should be built and AP-2 should be untolled.
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 5th, 2017, 06:26 PM   #7226
arctic_carlos
Recondita armonia
 
arctic_carlos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Sitges - Barcelona
Posts: 4,740
Likes (Received): 3991

Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
If high traffic or a lot of local traffic I think two paralel motorways, with first with a lot of exits, second with barely exit is not a bad idea.

It not enough traffic, one motorway should be enough.

That's why I consider A-68 should be built and AP-2 should be untolled.
I agree, but we also have to bear in mind another issue: with every new section of toll-free motorway built parallel to a toll motorway, more and more long-distance traffic diverts from the toll motorway to the parallel free-of-toll route, that includes sections that are conventional national roads. As a result, congestion and accident rates increase in those sections, so the government has to turn them also into motorways. It's a vicious circle.

An example: N-340 and AP-7 in Tarragona. The construction of A-7 as a toll-free motorway around Tarragona was fully justified because AP-7 has few exits and the urban area has a lot of traffic. However, after a few years they extended A-7 on both ends (to Vandellòs and to La Móra), which made the toll-free itinerary attractive to long-distance traffic that formerly used AP-7. As a result, N-340 has become congested in sections that weren't planned to become part of A-7 (between La Móra and Torredembarra and between Vandellòs and L'Ametlla de Mar). Now it's necessary to extend A-7 to solve that issue, but in the future it's quite likely that the same happens again and they have to extend A-7 until it becomes a 100% parallel motorway to AP-7. And AP-7 will then become a useless 2x3 motorway that the government will have to bail out. Does it make sense?
__________________
Wer kämpft, kann verlieren. Wer nicht kämpft, hat schon verloren.

Bertolt Brecht
arctic_carlos no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 5th, 2017, 09:18 PM   #7227
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,631
Likes (Received): 19426

Ma-19, Mallorca

The media report that the Consell de Mallorca will formally approve the motorway extension of Ma-19 from Llucmajor to Campos tomorrow. It is a € 42 million project that would go into the tender phase soon, perhaps construction by late 2017 or early 2018?

http://www.mallorcadiario.com/el-con...mpos-llucmajor
__________________

my clinched highways / travel mapping • highway photography @ Flickr and Youtube

arctic_carlos liked this post
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 6th, 2017, 11:15 AM   #7228
arctic_carlos
Recondita armonia
 
arctic_carlos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Sitges - Barcelona
Posts: 4,740
Likes (Received): 3991

A-23

I just saw that the Minister also announced new opening dates for these two sections:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
A23: Caldearenas – Alto de Monrepos ~5km (< 2009 to 2018) – ? – map
May 2019. Official lentgh is 3.9 km, according to the Fomento website.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
A23: Lanave – Caldearenas 14.4km (< 2009 to ?) – ? – map
Spring 2018. Official length is 12 km, according to the Fomento website.

Source: http://www.diariodelaltoaragon.es/No...spx?Id=1070541
__________________
Wer kämpft, kann verlieren. Wer nicht kämpft, hat schon verloren.

Bertolt Brecht
arctic_carlos no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 6th, 2017, 11:52 AM   #7229
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,844

Regarding "A-23 Caldearenas - Alto de Monrepos"...

Direction Huesca will be an upgrade of current road 1x1 which will be 2x0 only in that direction

Direction Jaca will have a new long tunnel... and will not pass exactly by Monrepos summit

Therefore it could come differences on distances. It will be longer direction Huesca than direction Jaca (I do not know which milesign will take on)
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 6th, 2017, 08:14 PM   #7230
rpc08
Registered User
 
rpc08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Serra da Estrela [P]
Posts: 6,285
Likes (Received): 1006

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisMuenchen View Post
Hi. In a few weeks i will travel from Munich to Valencia. One part of my trip should be from Orthez in France to Pamplona. I would like to use the D933 on the French site and the N-135 on the spanish Side. Did somebody ever use the same roads and could tell me something about the current condition. are they smooth to ride? Thank you.
Made those roads some years ago trying to escape the usual summer jams in the Basque Country and my evaluation is: if you're going in a touristic mood with some time to waste it is a nice option, landscapes are pretty specially in the Spanish side. But if not, it will take you a significant load of time. From A64 to Saint-Jean-Pied-de-Port D933 is not brilliant, I remember it has quite some roundabouts, but it's still nice to drive. From there to Pamplona is very curvy, and you will have to go up and down the Ibañeta Pass which is not exactly enjoyable if your time is limited. Travelling through A64 and A63 to the border and then taking N-121A is certainly faster (this, if you're travelling out of the problematic summer weekends).

Both roads were in very decent condition, still.
__________________
rpc08 @ SSC-PT
rpc08 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 8th, 2017, 04:30 PM   #7231
ChrisMuenchen
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 27
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by rpc08 View Post
Made those roads some years ago trying to escape the usual summer jams in the Basque Country and my evaluation is: if you're going in a touristic mood with some time to waste it is a nice option, landscapes are pretty specially in the Spanish side. But if not, it will take you a significant load of time. From A64 to Saint-Jean-Pied-de-Port D933 is not brilliant, I remember it has quite some roundabouts, but it's still nice to drive. From there to Pamplona is very curvy, and you will have to go up and down the Ibañeta Pass which is not exactly enjoyable if your time is limited. Travelling through A64 and A63 to the border and then taking N-121A is certainly faster (this, if you're travelling out of the problematic summer weekends).

Both roads were in very decent condition, still.
Thank you. i would say i will be in a touristic mood :-) it is calculated with about 3 hours. I will be there around 6 o' clock in the morning. In the last years i took all know main-roads (more or less) from France to Spain and vice-versa. Tunnel de Vielha, Tunnel de Cadi, tunnel de somport. is the route comparabable to these three routes? But the Ibaneta pass is "only" 1.100 meters or has it nothing to do with the curvy road?
ChrisMuenchen no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 8th, 2017, 11:55 PM   #7232
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,844

That road is St. James pilgrim lane indeed.




There are four main lanes. Three of them join together in the last French village before entering Spain in Roncesvalles, the fourth one will enter via Somport summit and all will join together not far from Pamplona. They chose those mountain passes due to they are the lowest in each area (they weren't silly in the middle age).

I reccomend you a short visit to Roncesvalles and be aware they will be "different Pyrenees". Navarran mountains are lowest than in Aragon and in Catalonia and are also more wet. Therefore, you will not find these kind of mountainscapes but will find a lot of forest. They are "more green" but do not know how they will be in summer. Each season has a different colour and this year has been quite dry.

The hardest point you will cross is "Erro mountain pass". I have glanced in google maps and seems not bad (also not good) nowadays... be patient and after Pamplona, maybe motorway to any direction.

I really do not know more about there. I have been only when teenager with high school and I guess it will have changed so much...
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2017, 11:31 AM   #7233
Highway89
Registered User
 
Highway89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: La Rioja (Spain)
Posts: 769
Likes (Received): 1200

Yesterday the N-232 and the access to the AP-68 in Agoncillo, La Rioja had to be closed due to the floods caused by a severe storm. The weather station located in the airport recorded 82,6 mm of rain in a few hours, almost twice as the previous record.


Source: http://www.larioja.com/la-rioja/nuev...173548-nt.html

A few hous later:






Highway89 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2017, 09:25 PM   #7234
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,631
Likes (Received): 19426

Quote:
Originally Posted by arctic_carlos View Post
According to the Fomento website, construction has also started on another motorway section: GJ-20, the motorway access to the port of El Musel, in Gijón (Asturias).

The section currently under construction is 3.46 km long, between Lloreda and Veriña, following current AS-19 road. It will have a cost of €33.08M (€9.56M/km).

Map of the new section:



Official press release (in Spanish): http://www.fomento.gob.es/MFOMBPrens...a-8780a2c390cc

GJ-10 according to this tiny photo:


But GJ-10 seems weird. When following the Spanish ring road numbering, a XX-10 would generally be a ring road very close or directly around the city center, with higher numbers for routes farther out. Not many XX-10 autovías exist. For example in Madrid it starts at M-30, in Logroño it is LO-20, in San Sebastián it is also GI-20, in Valladolid it is VA-30, and in Sevilla it is SE-30. Off the top off my head, I can only think of B-10 in Barcelona for now.
__________________

my clinched highways / travel mapping • highway photography @ Flickr and Youtube

arctic_carlos liked this post
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2017, 10:15 PM   #7235
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,844

In Zaragoza there is a criteria about "rings". Nowadays they exits Z-30 as a 2x2 or 3x3 street (limited to 50) and Z-40 as 2x2 or even 2+3x3+2 limited to 120 (except in one tunnel)

But... in a old photo which was posted somewhere we can see how the streets around Roman city are called "ring". That would be Z-10, but never used that word.

Second ring was never pointed but it is clear where it crosses

Therefore, when a street ring and a motorway ring where built, they took Z-30 and Z-40
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2017, 10:19 PM   #7236
arctic_carlos
Recondita armonia
 
arctic_carlos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Sitges - Barcelona
Posts: 4,740
Likes (Received): 3991

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
GJ-10 according to this tiny photo:
It's weird, in the Fomento website it's named GJ-20.

According to the local press, it will take 39 months to complete this section (opening in October 2020), although the Minister said he hopes the construction companies in charge of building it can complete it sooner.

Source: http://www.lne.es/gijon/2017/07/09/f...s/2132794.html
__________________
Wer kämpft, kann verlieren. Wer nicht kämpft, hat schon verloren.

Bertolt Brecht
arctic_carlos no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2017, 11:14 PM   #7237
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,631
Likes (Received): 19426

They are also building a six lane tunnel under the Plaça de les Glòries Catalanes in Barcelona.



A lengthy video detailing the construction progress:



The area used to look like this:


Then they removed the viaducts, making a 10-lane surface street.
__________________

my clinched highways / travel mapping • highway photography @ Flickr and Youtube

arctic_carlos liked this post
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2017, 11:50 PM   #7238
verreme
Registered User
 
verreme's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 1,392
Likes (Received): 645

About this tunnel: when finished (works are currently stopped due to some legal issues in the tendering process), construction should start on a second tunnel further east, which would allow free-flow traffic between the current terminus of C-31 and the end of the tunnel that's now U/C. This square has seen many iterations, with three different flyover layouts between the 1950s and today.
__________________
verreme no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 10th, 2017, 12:00 AM   #7239
arctic_carlos
Recondita armonia
 
arctic_carlos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Sitges - Barcelona
Posts: 4,740
Likes (Received): 3991

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
They are also building a six lane tunnel under the Plaça de les Glòries Catalanes in Barcelona.
Oh yes. Never thought of it as a road project. In SSC Spain it's usually treated from the urban planning perspective.

Anyway the tunnel works were suspended a couple of months ago due to a conflict between the city council and the contractor (there were some problems with the project due to the existence of several rail tunnels beneath the square). According to official plans, works should be restarted in January next year. The tunnel was supposed to be completed in 2019 but it won't be ready before 2020.

This how the are looks like at the moment:

__________________
Wer kämpft, kann verlieren. Wer nicht kämpft, hat schon verloren.

Bertolt Brecht

verreme, Highway89 liked this post
arctic_carlos no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 10th, 2017, 12:20 AM   #7240
verreme
Registered User
 
verreme's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 1,392
Likes (Received): 645

IIRC the original project featured a longer tunnel that would feed cars into Carrer d'Aragó. That would have been much better, but the current plan is not bad anyway because traffic will not have to stop at all through Plaça de les Glòries -something that can't be done since 2002 or so, when they set up a pedestrian crossing between C-31 and the drum-like structure above the square.
__________________

arctic_carlos liked this post
verreme no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
autopista, carreteras, españa, highways, motorways, road, spain, spain in the world, via rapida

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium