daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old July 14th, 2017, 08:55 PM   #7261
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,606
Likes (Received): 19391

A-3 Buñol - Requena

A couple of photos of A-3 between Buñol and Requena, in western Valenciana.

1. The viaducto de Buñol. It is two kilometers long, A-3 gains 100 meters in altitude on the bridge. It opened on 2 December 1993.

A-3-21 by European Roads, on Flickr

2. N-III (not N-111) to Ventamina.

A-3-23 by European Roads, on Flickr

3. Seven waters

A-3-26 by European Roads, on Flickr

4. The Source of Umbria

A-3-30 by European Roads, on Flickr

5.

A-3-31 by European Roads, on Flickr

6. The centro de conservación of Fomento. They do everyday maintenance and operations on a number of national roads in the region.

A-3-33 by European Roads, on Flickr

7. At Requena.

A-3-35 by European Roads, on Flickr

8. Utiel is the next sub-control city.

A-3-38 by European Roads, on Flickr
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old July 14th, 2017, 09:11 PM   #7262
Highway89
Registered User
 
Highway89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: La Rioja (Spain)
Posts: 763
Likes (Received): 1182



#2: I've actually read/heard many times "N-III" when referring to the N-111, usually when the Piqueras mountain pass was closed due to the snow

#4: More likely "shady source/spring"
Highway89 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 14th, 2017, 09:28 PM   #7263
verreme
Registered User
 
verreme's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 1,392
Likes (Received): 645

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
A couple of photos of A-3 between Buñol and Requena, in western Valenciana.


7. At Requena.

A-3-35 by European Roads, on Flickr
I like how in Valencia they paint Jersey barriers black-and-white. It's something I haven't seen in any other part of Spain but I see it everywhere in Valencia and Castellón. They do the same with curbs, too.

Red-and-white curbs used to be very popular in Barcelona province, but now many of them are gone. IMO I don't think they make a big difference road safety-wise, but they break the monotony of a long motorway drive.
__________________
verreme no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 14th, 2017, 09:34 PM   #7264
verreme
Registered User
 
verreme's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 1,392
Likes (Received): 645

Quote:
Originally Posted by sponge_bob View Post
AFAIR the last lot of PPPs in the 2000s were a combination of Tolls (Radiales and AP7) and availability payments of some sort from Fomento called an "RPA" in Spain. When many of these toll roads entered bankruptcy in the past few years the "RPA" was no longer payable annually as I understand and Fomento thereby saved some money. But the PPP model from the 2000s is a dead duck after the minimum €2.5bn of losses incurred on the Radiales and the AP7 (south of Cartagena)
AFAIK most, if not all, PPP road projects in Spain were shadow tolls. This includes regional motorways (notably those built in Catalonia and Murcia -not sure about Galicia and Castilla-La Mancha) and projects executed by Fomento (modernisation of first-generation autovías).
__________________
verreme no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 14th, 2017, 09:56 PM   #7265
CNGL
Leudimin
 
CNGL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Huesca
Posts: 7,458
Likes (Received): 1935

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
A couple of photos of A-3 between Buñol and Requena, in western Valenciana.
Once again, there's no region in Spain called just "Valenciana", it's Comunidad Valenciana (Valencian Community). The shorthand form is Valencia, but it's seldom used as the community also comprises Castellón and Alicante.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
2. N-III (not N-111) to Ventamina.
Yup. N-111 runs from Medinaceli to Pamplona (or at least used to run, since Navarre has renumbered most of its section after A-12 was built, so N-111 now ends at Viana). I once drove the Soria to Logroño section, it's a scenic drive especially in Rioja.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
3. Seven waters
Here are two more waters for a total of nine, also in Valencia . And in my province there's just waters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
7. At Requena.
Notice N-330 which runs through my hometown . It used to run from Alicante all the way to the French border at the Somport pass, although now A-31 has caused it to be truncated to Almansa, and it also has been/is being replaced by A-23 through most of Aragon. Only the Almansa-Requena, Utiel-Teruel and Jaca-France sections will remain as a regular road.
__________________
Neque porro quisquam est qui dolorem ipsum, quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non nunquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem - Cicero, De finibus bonorum et malorum, from which placeholder text is derived.

arctic_carlos, Penn's Woods, Kunagi liked this post
CNGL está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2017, 12:35 AM   #7266
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,790

N-330 is these kind of roads that have nonsense. Nobody would take it to go from Alicante to Teruel via inner territory. They would take A-7 (or whatever, they can choose other free and tolled options) till Sagunto and turn Teruel.

When nobody takes a road corner to corner, it really have nonsense and I would "break them" into several little more roads.

In addition, every milestone refers to start point, km.0. Therefore we could see for a while that in the north of Zaragoza there were 501 km to Alicante should we took a road that nobody takes and, if you enter in Spain through Somport tunnel, instead of seeing milestones referring Huesca or Zaragoza, they will point Alicante at all!!!!! even when nobody cross that border to reach Alicante.

And... as a welcome, first milestone is km.666, a nice devil welcome coming from France.
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2017, 01:44 AM   #7267
arctic_carlos
Recondita armonia
 
arctic_carlos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Sitges - Barcelona
Posts: 4,721
Likes (Received): 3932

N-420 (Tarragona - Córdoba) is another good example of an extremely long national road that currently sees little long-distance traffic from end to end. AP-7 + A-3 + A-43 + A-4 is by far the fastest route.
__________________
Wer kämpft, kann verlieren. Wer nicht kämpft, hat schon verloren.

Bertolt Brecht
arctic_carlos no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2017, 10:25 AM   #7268
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,606
Likes (Received): 19391

I don't think it's a problem if a number takes a route that few - if any - traffic uses from end to end. The motorway network is dense enough that not many trips in excess of 100 - 150 kilometers are made on the carretera nacional network nowadays.

The long-distance national roads are a thing from the past, but it is still heavily used for locating businesses, for example business x on km 321 of N-100.

Since the route numbering plan is currently detached from actual ownership in some autonomous regions, they could transfer roads to a lower government without having to renumber it. In France it resulted in a mess with many former national roads now having 4-digit route départementale numbers. In this day and age of GPS not that many people care about numbering anymore, so why go through the effort of changing it all? N83 is more identifyable than D2083.
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2017, 01:14 PM   #7269
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,606
Likes (Received): 19391

A-125 Aragón

I was looking at A-125 in Aragón, a 73 kilometer east-west road from the Navarra border via Ejea de los Caballeros to Ayerbe.

Aragón classifies this road as a 'Red Arterial I', the highest class of carreteras autonómicas in Aragón. However the eastern half of A-125 is very substandard for a major route, it has a narrow carriageway, no center line and is quite curvy at times. It used to be a carretera comarcal (C-125).

You can see the effect of this poor road in the traffic volumes, Ejea - Huesca traffic takes A-124, A-1209 and A-23 instead of A-125 / A-132 (they are about the same distance). The eastern part of A-125 hardly carries more than 200 vehicles per day while some 1.600 - 3.600 vehicles per day use A-125 / A-124 / A-1209.









I've seen a similar effect on A-228 in Teruel province. One section looked like the photos above (or worse) where you can drive maybe 40-60 km/h at best, while another section has a wide carriageway where you can drive 90 km/h.
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2017, 02:57 PM   #7270
CNGL
Leudimin
 
CNGL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Huesca
Posts: 7,458
Likes (Received): 1935

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I was looking at A-125 in Aragón, a 73 kilometer east-west road from the Navarra border via Ejea de los Caballeros to Ayerbe.

Aragón classifies this road as a 'Red Arterial I', the highest class of carreteras autonómicas in Aragón. However the eastern half of A-125 is very substandard for a major route, it has a narrow carriageway, no center line and is quite curvy at times. It used to be a carretera comarcal (C-125).

You can see the effect of this poor road in the traffic volumes, Ejea - Huesca traffic takes A-124, A-1209 and A-23 instead of A-125 / A-132 (they are about the same distance). The eastern part of A-125 hardly carries more than 200 vehicles per day while some 1.600 - 3.600 vehicles per day use A-125 / A-124 / A-1209.
You guessed it, when I go to Ejea de los Caballeros and points West (like Calahorra back in March) I use A-23 to A-1209 to A-124 to A-125. Last year I decided to drive A-125, and what a torture between Erla and Ardisa (but at least I have driven all of it). The section in Huesca province, while still narrow, at least is more straight.

Also, C-125 suddenly ended at Ardisa. It was planned to meet N-330 there, but it was never built, and moved to its current routing in 1982. So, for the final years of its existence C-125 was extended from Ardisa to Jaca, using a previously provincial route and then over the former N-330 routing, now A-1205. Also, after Aragon renumbered its roads A-125 also ended at Ardisa for a while, with the rest to Ayerbe being A-124. This meant the old N-330 project (or at least the Southern part of it as by that time a dam in Biscarrues was also planned, which would have flooded the Northern part) was still alive as a road near Zuera was also designated A-124. But then they decided to rebuild the road to Erla, which was at first numbered A-1103, and provide another route from Ejea de los Caballeros to Zaragoza (I suspect this had to do with the construction of N-330 motorway, now A-23. In fact this is the best route now, although people still go on A-127/N-232/A-68). This left A-1103 with a 'wrong' number (it should be A-12xx now).
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I've seen a similar effect on A-228 in Teruel province. One section looked like the photos above (or worse) where you can drive maybe 40-60 km/h at best, while another section has a wide carriageway where you can drive 90 km/h.
Yup, A-228. Even though I haven't driven nothing of it yet (although I've gone past both termini), I know it's a good road from Albentosa to Gudar, then a goat track to Camarillas, and then again a good road (built in the 90s) to Cañada Vellida. However this is changing now, as I've read it's now being rebuilt from Gudar to Allepuz. Another example is A-220, with two good sections at the extremes (La Almunia de Doña Godina to Cariñena, repaved last year; and Fuendetodos to Belchite) and a goat track in the middle. This is also slated for reconstruction soon, at least the first few km East of Cariñena are beginning works this year.
__________________
Neque porro quisquam est qui dolorem ipsum, quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non nunquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem - Cicero, De finibus bonorum et malorum, from which placeholder text is derived.
CNGL está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2017, 03:04 PM   #7271
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,790

A-125 is one out of those main roads I have pointed as priority but forgotten. Just to link main cities in Aragon, except Zaragoza, it is important (Huesca-Ejea in this case, enlarged to Tudela.

It is a pity becase absolutely all citizens take motorway A-23 with a little detour

Edit... and... it is not the worst among all main roads in Aragon
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2017, 03:43 PM   #7272
sponge_bob
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,953
Likes (Received): 2204

MMMmmmmm What a Lovely Spanish A Road.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I was looking at A-125 in Aragón,
sponge_bob no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2017, 04:10 PM   #7273
CNGL
Leudimin
 
CNGL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Huesca
Posts: 7,458
Likes (Received): 1935

That's because you haven't seen A-1505 . I've already suffered both.
__________________
Neque porro quisquam est qui dolorem ipsum, quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non nunquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem - Cicero, De finibus bonorum et malorum, from which placeholder text is derived.
CNGL está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2017, 04:30 PM   #7274
sponge_bob
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,953
Likes (Received): 2204

Quote:
Originally Posted by CNGL View Post
That's because you haven't seen A-1505 . I've already suffered both.
Ahh but I did the A-7207 which is busier than those Meseta specials of yours.
sponge_bob no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2017, 05:12 PM   #7275
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,790

OK, my bet is longer than Chris one!!!

A-219

https://www.google.es/maps/@41.83676...2!8i6656?hl=es

It was supposed to enlarge this road and build a new bridge over Cinca and have a direct connection between Zaragoza/Monegros center and La Litera area, and new brigde over Cinca river.

Between Monzon and Fraga (N-240 and N-II and obviously A-22 and A-2 & AP-2) there's only one brigde where two cars cannot cross at same time (and high speed railway brigde, forbidden for cars and pietons!!)

It appeared on maps in 95 and forgotten!!!


Be sure you will not find a new record

(and in Aragon, main regional network road is A-XXX with three digits and orange plate, thus this is a main road)

Another record could be this one

A-228
https://www.google.es/maps/@40.44374...2!8i6656?hl=es

just look southern and northern Gudar but I do not say many things about it because it is proposed to have on works at least until Allepuz cross asap (and plans to enlarge all the road)


There's a third case but I let CNGL to talk about it...
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2017, 05:22 PM   #7276
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,606
Likes (Received): 19391

I drove A-228 from Allepuz to A-23 last month. There is even a ski resort of some sort, which is hard to believe when you walk through that dry forest at 35 °C.

Has A-129 ever extended from Sariñena to Monzón? It's called the 'Carretera de Zaragoza - Monzón' and Google Maps also signs it as A-129 east of Sariñena, but there are no actual signs in the field confirming that route. It is also a lower standard road. The Plan General de Carreteras only defines A-129 from Zaragoza to Sariñena (69 km).

The Wikipedia list of former carreteras comarcales only lists C-129 from Zaragoza to Sariñena as well. But when you leave Zaragoza, both Barbastro and Monzón are signed on the distance tableaux.
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2017, 05:44 PM   #7277
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,790

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I drove A-228 from Allepuz to A-23 last month. There is even a ski resort of some sort, which is hard to believe when you walk through that dry forest at 35 °C.
And the municipality it belongs that ski resort is, indeed, the highest village in Spain (Valdelinares, 1692m ovl).

In summer it will be hot... maybe 7-10 degrees less than in Zaragoza but it will be hot too... remember that we are in southern Europe

But in winter, ski resort is at 2000ish mosl, it really doesn't snow too much but it is enough with some snow and it is so cold that they will keep snow for all season.

Some years ago, a well-known car company took an ad in Spain and wanted to prove in the hardest area. They chose that little village and, providing they would cooperate for the ad (this is, the 80 inhabitants they live there appeared in the ad) they gifted an off-road car to the village.

Once I glanced a news about bus routes in Aragon and the one that crosses this area, three times per week in the morning to Teruel (only one per week in Valdelinares) and back afternoon, is the one that requires more money to keep service. Just guess about how many people live there...



Quote:
Has A-129 ever extended from Sariñena to Monzón? It's called the 'Carretera de Zaragoza - Monzón' and Google Maps also signs it as A-129 east of Sariñena, but there are no actual signs in the field confirming that route. It is also a lower standard road. The Plan General de Carreteras only defines A-129 from Zaragoza to Sariñena (69 km).

The Wikipedia list of former carreteras comarcales only lists C-129 from Zaragoza to Sariñena as well. But when you leave Zaragoza, both Barbastro and Monzón are signed on the distance tableaux.

Well... they have punt milestones... but everyone will make a detour to get better roads. Sariñena-Fraga is fine
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2017, 09:10 PM   #7278
Highway89
Registered User
 
Highway89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: La Rioja (Spain)
Posts: 763
Likes (Received): 1182

One of the worst "orange" roads I know is the A-447 between Alanís and the A-3275 intersection in Andalusia. Here's a video I've found.



The other part of it looks fairly good, though:



In La Rioja we have the former C-113, which looks like this for the most part:


...but then becomes a treacherous 5 m wide road. Apparently it has remained unchanged since it was built as a bypass for the Mansilla reservoir in the early 1950s.



Then it becomes the typical 6 m wide road designed with the same pre-1980s (?) standards as others N and C roads.



In Castilla y León it was renamed to BU-825 and downgraded to a lower category (green - provincial). This part used to have center line indicating passing and no-passing zones, but it's used so little that the last time it was chip-sealed they just painted broken outer lines.



Quote:
Originally Posted by sponge_bob View Post
Ahh but I did the A-7207 which is busier than those Meseta specials of yours.
Just for clarification: Aragón doesn't lie on the Meseta
Highway89 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2017, 09:47 PM   #7279
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,606
Likes (Received): 19391

Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway89 View Post
Then it becomes the typical 6 m wide road designed with the same pre-1980s (?) standards as others N and C roads.
The Plan REDIA was approved in 1960 to upgrade N-roads to 12 meters wide (7 m driving lane an 2.5 + 2.5 m shoulders). Originally it included only the radiales and a few other major N-roads, but later 9 and 12 meter wide carriageways became more or less the standard design for carreteras nacionales in Spain wherever possible.
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old July 16th, 2017, 12:10 PM   #7280
CNGL
Leudimin
 
CNGL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Huesca
Posts: 7,458
Likes (Received): 1935

Quote:
Originally Posted by sponge_bob View Post
Ahh but I did the A-7207 which is busier than those Meseta specials of yours.
Erm... Aragon ain't part of the plateau, except maybe the extreme Western part around Ariza. I really like A-2 near Contamina towards Madrid, as you descend out of the Jalon canyon into what may be already the Castilian plateau while still in Aragon!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I drove A-228 from Allepuz to A-23 last month. There is even a ski resort of some sort, which is hard to believe when you walk through that dry forest at 35 °C.
Yup, Valdelinares ski resort, but that is not directly accesed from A-228, but instead from A-2705 (a newly-designated road which came into existence only in 2015), which branches off A-228 near Alcala de la Selva. Also, did you see works between Allepuz and Gudar? According to this website they are working on it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Has A-129 ever extended from Sariñena to Monzón? It's called the 'Carretera de Zaragoza - Monzón' and Google Maps also signs it as A-129 east of Sariñena, but there are no actual signs in the field confirming that route. It is also a lower standard road. The Plan General de Carreteras only defines A-129 from Zaragoza to Sariñena (69 km).

The Wikipedia list of former carreteras comarcales only lists C-129 from Zaragoza to Sariñena as well. But when you leave Zaragoza, both Barbastro and Monzón are signed on the distance tableaux.
I remember seeing a map where C-129 was shown to extend to what is now the N-240/A-130 junction across the river from Monzon, mostly paralleling the railway. But actually it never went past Lastanosa. The Sariñena-Lastanosa section became A-2212 in the 80s, with the rest of C-129 becoming A-129. A-129 ends at Sariñena and does not go further despite what many maps show, and a extension to Binefar (not Monzon) has been long planned. It would include a bridge over Cinca river, which has only one crossing between Monzon and Fraga (another one is planned further dowstream at Zaidin, it would be an extension of A-1241). To reach Barbastro and Monzon from Sariñena one has to go on A-131 (which has been recently upgraded) and A-1223, and A-1226 if one wants to go to Barbastro.
__________________
Neque porro quisquam est qui dolorem ipsum, quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non nunquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem - Cicero, De finibus bonorum et malorum, from which placeholder text is derived.
CNGL está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
autopista, carreteras, españa, highways, motorways, road, spain, spain in the world, via rapida

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:17 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium