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Old October 13th, 2017, 04:24 PM   #7641
sotonsi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
There are someones indeed but not so many.
There's enough - even a maximal, overkill, network of national autovias isn't that many new intercity routes that don't have a number allocated (or can't extend an existing number) - baring in mind that there's multiple numbers to play with already.

And numbers currently in use can be freed up by doing stuff like giving Alicante a different prefix, giving city numbers to short routes (eg A51 Avilla bypass being renumbered AV20 means that A50 can be A51, freeing up a number), merging routes together to form long ones, etc.
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Old October 13th, 2017, 05:52 PM   #7642
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And many groups of motorways that currently have different numbers could be unified in single motorways. For instance A-12 + A-231 + AP-71 could simply become A-12. Or A-21 + A-22 could just become A-21, sharing the Jaca - Huesca section with A-23.

But in any event I agree that in the future we’re not going to need a new numbering system because we won’t witness many new intercity routes becoming autovías, as our basic network is almost completed and the most remarkable gaps already have an assigned numbering (Ciudad Real - Mérida, Ponferrada - Ourense or Badajoz - Granada, just to mention some of them).
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Old October 13th, 2017, 06:09 PM   #7643
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctic_carlos View Post
According to some forumers (and wikipedia), the traditional Roman numerals used in radial national roads (N-I to N-VI) have been abandoned and now these roads are officially signposted with Arabic numerals (N-1 to N-6). However, the change will of course take place in actual road signs only gradually.

In my opinion, they could also rename N-340 as N-7, N-634 as N-8 and N-550 as N-9.
I loved the Roman numbers for the main national roads!


Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Hmmm, I kind of liked that oddity...
Me too!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Reivajar View Post
Mee too. Kind of classy.
Do you know why?


Quote:
Originally Posted by jdb.2 View Post
Well 1492 is now more than 500 years ago, so it's safe to switch back to Arabic numerals.
The new generations do not know the Roman numbers...


Quote:
Originally Posted by CNGL View Post
A-16 to A-19 were formerly used in Catalonia. (A-16 and A-19 are now C-32, A-17 is C-33 and A-18 part of C-16). The original A-10 was in Madrid, it was changed to M-11 and then the number got picked up by Navarre (Incidentally I drove all of current A-10 last month). There used to be an A-36 unrelated to AP-36 which is now part of A-7. At one point there was an A-47 planned, which would have run along N-433. A-78 was used for a duplicated section of N-340 between Elche and Crevillente, but it has been dropped since.
"Esperpento".
I do not know that word in English.


BTW:
In 2 photos of ChrisZwolle you can find the exit to my father's home village.
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Last edited by Bitxofo; October 13th, 2017 at 07:59 PM.
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Old October 13th, 2017, 09:00 PM   #7644
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I know what one is .
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Old October 14th, 2017, 05:20 AM   #7645
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitxofo View Post


Do you know why?

I'm not completely positive, but I would say it comes from the Plan Peña in 1939, which was the first national numbering system for the whole Spanish road network. As the whole numbering system was based on the six roads spanning from Madrid, and they were kind of special in the hierarchy of the grid, I think they just decided to pull them out of the general numbering pattern. I don't know if there is another additional explanation. Maybe somebody from the Spanish forum can know some secret of the reasoning.

Quote:

"Esperpento".
I do not know that word in English.



That is a tricky one. Grotesque is somehow close in meaning, but it is so embedded in Spanish idiosyncrasy and literature tradition (as picaresca -picaresque in English- for example, I would say). It is grotesque, but with a social critic added too.
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Old October 14th, 2017, 06:11 PM   #7646
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Roquetas de Mar - Málaga - Gibraltar (17.09.2017)

01.

Ctra. los Mercados by Carlos Amaro, no Flickr

A-1051

02.

A-1051 - saída Roquetas de Mar by Carlos Amaro, no Flickr

A-7

03.

A-7 by Carlos Amaro, no Flickr

04.

A-7 - saída Vicar by Carlos Amaro, no Flickr

05.

A-7 - saída La Mojonera by Carlos Amaro, no Flickr

06.

A-7 - saída Santa Maria del Aguila by Carlos Amaro, no Flickr

07.

A-7 by Carlos Amaro, no Flickr

08.

A-7 by Carlos Amaro, no Flickr

09.

A-7 - saída Adra este by Carlos Amaro, no Flickr

10.

A-7 - saída Adra oeste by Carlos Amaro, no Flickr

11.

A-7 by Carlos Amaro, no Flickr

12.

A-7 by Carlos Amaro, no Flickr

13.

A-7 - saída GR-16 Motril by Carlos Amaro, no Flickr

14.

A-7 - saída A-44 Granada by Carlos Amaro, no Flickr

15.

A-7 - saída A-44 Granada by Carlos Amaro, no Flickr

16.

A-7 - saída GR-14 Motril by Carlos Amaro, no Flickr

17.

A-7 by Carlos Amaro, no Flickr

18.

A-7 by Carlos Amaro, no Flickr

19.

A-7 - saída Almuñecar oeste by Carlos Amaro, no Flickr
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Old October 14th, 2017, 06:12 PM   #7647
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20.

A-7 - saída Ciudad Jardin by Carlos Amaro, no Flickr

21.

A-7 by Carlos Amaro, no Flickr

22.

A-7 - saída Ciudad Jardin by Carlos Amaro, no Flickr

23.

A-7 - saída A-45 Córdoba by Carlos Amaro, no Flickr

24.

A-7 - saída MA-20 Málaga oeste by Carlos Amaro, no Flickr

25.

A-7 by Carlos Amaro, no Flickr

26.

A-7 - saída AP-46 Córdoba by Carlos Amaro, no Flickr

27.

A-7 - saída Almogía by Carlos Amaro, no Flickr

28.

A-7 - saída Cártama by Carlos Amaro, no Flickr

29.

A-7 - saída Málaga by Carlos Amaro, no Flickr

30.

A-7 - saída Churriana by Carlos Amaro, no Flickr

31.

A-7 by Carlos Amaro, no Flickr

32.

A-7 - saída Marbella by Carlos Amaro, no Flickr

33.

A-7 - saída Puerto Banús by Carlos Amaro, no Flickr

34.

A-7 - saída San Pedro Alcántara by Carlos Amaro, no Flickr

A-383

35.

A-383 - saída Santa Margarita by Carlos Amaro, no Flickr

36.

A-383 by Carlos Amaro, no Flickr

N-351

37.

N-351 by Carlos Amaro, no Flickr

38.

acesso Gibraltar by Carlos Amaro, no Flickr

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Old October 14th, 2017, 06:50 PM   #7648
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Top left.... should they say "No bus" will not be accurate, but correct even in Spanish and English (and better translation than current one)
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Old October 14th, 2017, 09:42 PM   #7649
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Autovía EX-A1 in Extremadura. The section on these photos opened to traffic in 2005 & 2006.

1.

EX-A1-3 by European Roads, on Flickr
Did you drive the stretch of the A-5 just south of the Gredos mountain range, more or less between Talavera and Navalmoral? I remember we did that part in a school trip and the view was just lovely, with the dehesa landscape and the snow-capped mountains in the background. Like this (not my pics):
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/8696443013
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mago_1999/8697564834/


Quote:
Originally Posted by arctic_carlos View Post
According to some forumers (and wikipedia), the traditional Roman numerals used in radial national roads (N-I to N-VI) have been abandoned and now these roads are officially signposted with Arabic numerals (N-1 to N-6). However, the change will of course take place in actual road signs only gradually.

In my opinion, they could also rename N-340 as N-7, N-634 as N-8 and N-550 as N-9.
The new Ley de Carreteras from late 2015 included a new Catálogo in which the six main radial roads now have Arabic numerals: https://www.boe.es/buscar/act.php?id...=20150930#anii

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reivajar View Post
I'm not completely positive, but I would say it comes from the Plan Peña in 1939, which was the first national numbering system for the whole Spanish road network. As the whole numbering system was based on the six roads spanning from Madrid, and they were kind of special in the hierarchy of the grid, I think they just decided to pull them out of the general numbering pattern. I don't know if there is another additional explanation. Maybe somebody from the Spanish forum can know some secret of the reasoning.
The use of roman numerals dates back [at least] to the numbering scheme of the 1926 Circuito Nacional de Firmes Especiales. There were 13 (from I to XIII) radiales and 10 transversales:
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circui...rutas_del_CNFE

Quote:
Originally Posted by KRX_69 View Post
Roquetas de Mar - Málaga - Gibraltar (17.09.2017)


A-1051

02.

A-1051 - saída Roquetas de Mar by Carlos Amaro, no Flickr
Now I see why they call it Mar de Plástico (sea of plastic). BTW, IIRC that stretch of autovía opened quite recently, you probably were the first forum user to drive there.
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Old October 14th, 2017, 10:04 PM   #7650
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway89 View Post
Did you drive the stretch of the A-5 just south of the Gredos mountain range, more or less between Talavera and Navalmoral?
Yes, I drove A-5 from Maqueda (A-40) to Navalmoral de la Mata (EX-A1). In two separate days, as my campsite was in Navarredonda de Gredos.

The Talavera de la Reina bypass still has old concrete.

But I did not see the Sierra de Gredos with snow

By the way the Plataforma De Gredos is now a toll road from AV-931. 2009 Street View shows no toll booth at the AV-931 junction, but there was one in June. I did not go onto the toll road as the weather was deteriorating. I didn't feel comfortable to go high up the mountains above the tree line with thunderstorms.
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Old October 15th, 2017, 11:39 AM   #7651
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A-226

A-226 east of Fortanete in Teruel province.


A-226 Fortanete-1 by European Roads, on Flickr


A-226 Fortanete-2 by European Roads, on Flickr


A-226 Fortanete-3 by European Roads, on Flickr
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Old October 15th, 2017, 01:10 PM   #7652
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First time I took A-226 it was refurbished until Fortanete and nothing later. I think it took me same time Mirambel-Fortanete than Fortanete-Teruel.

BTW it pointed 101 km in Cantavieja to Teruel and nowadays 89. Only because less curves.

A good road to make an axis in a poverty populated (almost deserted) area. Although there are 5 mountain passes, highest 1700m
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Old October 15th, 2017, 01:59 PM   #7653
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The yearbook for 2016 has been published (Chapter 7: Roads)

At 31 December 2016 Spain has 15444 kms of Motorways and Expressways

Tolled motorways: 3039 kms
Free motorways and expressways: 12405 kms

There are also 1665 kms of "multilane roads" that can't be counted for international rankings

Added to the network in 2016: 108 kms

https://www.fomento.gob.es/MFOM/LANG...nuario2016.htm

Look for Capitulo 7: Carreteras
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Old October 15th, 2017, 02:42 PM   #7654
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About A-226, it is the longest road managed by Aragon, though chopped in two sections by Olocau del Rey belonging to the Valencian Community. Somehow A-226 doesn't take into account its implied section in Castellon (numbered as CV-121 and classified by me as a "green" road despite Valencia not using that color), as the last kmpost past Mirambel just before the border is 105 and the first one after crossing back into Aragon is 106, so the implied 11 km are missing. A-139 does take into account the N-260 concurrency across the Ventamillo gorge, even though it's not owned by Aragon but Fomento.
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Old October 15th, 2017, 02:45 PM   #7655
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That's right.... just glance in a map, look for "Calanda" and will see where the A-226 ends
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Old October 15th, 2017, 08:34 PM   #7656
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Yes, I drove A-5 from Maqueda (A-40) to Navalmoral de la Mata (EX-A1). In two separate days, as my campsite was in Navarredonda de Gredos.

The Talavera de la Reina bypass still has old concrete.

But I did not see the Sierra de Gredos with snow

By the way the Plataforma De Gredos is now a toll road from AV-931. 2009 Street View shows no toll booth at the AV-931 junction, but there was one in June. I did not go onto the toll road as the weather was deteriorating. I didn't feel comfortable to go high up the mountains above the tree line with thunderstorms.
Now that's news to me! It's probably the only tolled mountain road in Spain (not counting tunnels, obviously). From what I've read, the toll barriers were installed in 2014 at the km 7. Here's an aerial photo from 2014 (location):


During July, August and the first week of September it's tolled every day from 8 am to 8 pm. The rest of the year, only weekends from 9 am to 6 pm. The price is €2.5 for cars and motorbikes, €4.5 for motorhomes and €11 for buses.
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Old October 15th, 2017, 09:01 PM   #7657
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However this is Spain, so I wouldn't be surprised if they have managed to find a way around the toll (known in the USA as shunpiking) .
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Old October 16th, 2017, 12:30 AM   #7658
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where do they say it is tolled?
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Old October 16th, 2017, 03:19 AM   #7659
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
where do they say it is tolled?
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carret...orma_de_Gredos
https://avilared.com/not/10621/el-pa...sde-el-jueves/
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Old October 16th, 2017, 08:24 AM   #7660
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Well.... in that case, LZ-602 is also tolled. It is the road to reach the centre of Timanfaya national park. There is a big parking in the middle and a nice restaurant that cooks.... with Earth heat!!!! (no fire, no gaz, no electricity) and obviously a bus guided tour around vulcanoes but just to enter there and reach the parking only for a meal costs 8 euro per person (later, if you want, bus tour included)
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