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Old July 2nd, 2008, 08:44 PM   #861
ChrisZwolle
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Jet fighter on a roundabout near Getafe.
[IMG]http://i29.************/o6bods.jpg[/IMG]
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Old July 2nd, 2008, 08:50 PM   #862
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They should make all roundabouts look cool, but that's a hell lot of work.
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Old July 2nd, 2008, 09:05 PM   #863
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M-503 at Pozuelo de Alarcón (suburb of Madrid)


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Old July 2nd, 2008, 09:20 PM   #864
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Madrid strikes me as a very sensible city, planning-wise.. Is it just me, or is there some justification to that assertion?
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Old July 2nd, 2008, 09:22 PM   #865
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Madrid strikes me as a very sensible city, planning-wise.. Is it just me, or is there some justification to that assertion?
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Old July 2nd, 2008, 09:24 PM   #866
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There is no city like it in Europe which has this kind of sophisticated infrastructure, wether rail or roads. It seems to be masterplanned, however, some area's of the metropolitan area seems just like US suburbs, however, better and nicer, with some more variation (rowhouses, apartment complexes etc). You also see a lot of apartment complexes under construction.
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Old July 2nd, 2008, 10:49 PM   #867
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Some great infrastructure here.
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Old July 3rd, 2008, 12:25 AM   #868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxx☢Power View Post
Madrid strikes me as a very sensible city, planning-wise.. Is it just me, or is there some justification to that assertion?
I think that Madrid has a good planification but isn't perfect... it's almost impossible to park in the city and if you get a parking space you must pay for it and leave it before ¿2? hours (except private parkings, weekends, at night and with the resident card), also we have a huge underground/commuter network but (I think that inexplicably, because in comparison are much larger than in other similar cities) in some zones, it's almost collapsed in rush hour, the same with the motorways, we have 3 ring motorways (M-30, M-40 and M-50), 7 free major radial motorways (A-1, A-2, A-3, A-4, A-42, A-5 and A-6), 5 toll radial motorways (R-2, R-3, R-4, AP-41 and R-5), some minor radial motorways (like M-407) and "half-rings" (like M-45) and most of the free motorways are almost collapsed (in fact, the M-30 is the busyest road in Spain with hundreds of thousands of daily movements).

Bye²
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Old July 3rd, 2008, 01:59 AM   #869
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Quote:
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Jet fighter on a roundabout near Getafe.
[IMG]http://i29.************/o6bods.jpg[/IMG]
Oh, I love it!
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Yo si la ciudad no tiene metro, como que no es gran ciudad y entonces ya paso de vivir allí. Norreport+12000
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Old July 3rd, 2008, 03:03 AM   #870
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Quote:
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New urban area on the southeastside of Madrid. This is how they make their road infrastructure, ofcourse, they also have an extended metronetwork. Why can't we do that in the Netherlands? Such a road as pictured here would have only 1 lane per direction in the Netherlands.
http://i25.************/15phfnb.jpg
Yep, Madrid astonishes me in this sense everytime I am there. I have a friend working as an engineer in this area and it's unbelievable how well planned it is before anybody lives there.

About the things to improve:
- I would limit the sprawl in the surroundings of the city. It's inefficient and in 99% of the cases butt ugly.
- Metro stations in the entries of the cities should have large cheap parkings, so people could leave the car there and take the superb Metro/bus system for moving inside M-30.
- New built light-rail lines have been disappointing. They are too slow to be competitive.
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Old July 5th, 2008, 08:35 PM   #871
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Fantastic map of Spain and Portugal by Reivajar. It has some errors we're correcting in the Spanish forum.


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Muy buenas a [email protected]

Aquí os dejo un archivo para que le echéis un ojo. Me acabo de enterar de lo de esta autovía "Transmanchega" pero bueno, en fin... controlar dos ministerios, 17 administraciones autonómicas y demás planes municipales tiene al final sus fallos y retrasos.


(2,03 Mb)

Espero críticas, consejos y correcciones. Muchas gracias.

P.D. Si alguien cree conveniente colgarlo en foros regionales para mayor precisión en las correcciones o indicaciones adelante, no hay problema.

Un saludo.
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Old July 5th, 2008, 08:36 PM   #872
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
There is no city like it in Europe which has this kind of sophisticated infrastructure, wether rail or roads. It seems to be masterplanned, however, some area's of the metropolitan area seems just like US suburbs, however, better and nicer, with some more variation (rowhouses, apartment complexes etc). You also see a lot of apartment complexes under construction.
I think the thing that strikes me with Madrid is that it seems very dense and with great, planned infrastructure, while most other big cities seem to fall into two categories; they're either sprawling monsters with huge motorways for tentacles (North America) or they're dense but with heavily congested, old and unplanned infrastructure (Europe). Madrid is kind of like one of those old commieblock masterplans done right, or maybe it's Suburbia done right.. It does seem to have a lot of sprawl, but it looks like it's contained somewhat by using denser architecture.
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Old July 6th, 2008, 11:36 PM   #873
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I can't believe what I am reading here... Madrid as a 'super-planned' metro area? Just have a look at the metro's southeastern edge: Incredible road-infrastructure in the middle of nowwhere before construction starts. This seems hardly sustainable. Of course, Madrid also has one of the fastest growing public transportation networks but the road/ freeway infrastrucutre is also growing like hell. Hard to believe what people chose when there's a brand new six- to 10 lane freeway right in front of their urbanizacion, including mulit-level interchanges and 6-lane brand new roundabouts. For me, this is insane and nothing but un-sustainable....
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Old July 6th, 2008, 11:45 PM   #874
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that's what I mean....
and even with a super rail network - NO, this is not sustainable. This is like the freeway-madness in the 60s - but realized!!!!!!!!
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Old July 6th, 2008, 11:53 PM   #875
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... or this... insane in the beginning of the 2000s... we should know better now
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Old July 6th, 2008, 11:59 PM   #876
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Why the hate?
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Old July 7th, 2008, 12:50 AM   #877
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lambersart2005 View Post
Of course, Madrid also has one of the fastest growing public transportation networks but the road/ freeway infrastrucutre is also growing like hell. Hard to believe what people chose when there's a brand new six- to 10 lane freeway right in front of their urbanizacion, including mulit-level interchanges and 6-lane brand new roundabouts. For me, this is insane and nothing but un-sustainable....
Here there is'nt usual to see roads with more than 3 lanes (sometimes +1 or +2 in the service way).

Metro de Madrid had 700 million of travels last year (2 million of travels every day).

Cercanías Madrid had 255 million of travels in 2006.

EMT (Madrid's busses, without metropolitan area) had 473 million of travels in 2005.

Here, people choose the fastest solution (and sometimes, the cheapest one, there are more cars the first days of any month that the last days), the people don't like using the car, it's a problem parking, there are jams and you can't drink. The people only use it when there is a substantially reduced travel time.

And the infraestructure is build in the middle of nowhere because is already planned that is going to be something there.

Bye bye
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Old July 7th, 2008, 09:23 AM   #878
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... or this... insane in the beginning of the 2000s... we should know better now
You seems to be the guy that loves traffic jams to drive everybody into public transportation what doesn't work eventually. Name one city where there are no traffic jams and everybody uses public transportation, where your idealism actually works.
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Old July 7th, 2008, 10:26 AM   #879
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Besides that, the Madrid traffic model is working quite good. They only have 40 - 50 km of traffic jam during peak hours, compare that to the Netherlands, where they used that "sustainable" policy of not widening freeways. The Randstad is in number of inhabitants a bit larger than Madrid, however, it has usually 5 - 6 times more kilometers of traffic jams, 200 - 250km of queue in the Randstad is not uncommon.

How is Madrid doing on the park and ride system? Are there any along the M-30? It's best to keep the traffic inside the historic city center to a minimum.
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Old July 7th, 2008, 10:42 AM   #880
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I'm guessing those hundreds of kms of traffic jams are neither sustainable nor environmentally friendly.
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