[E] Spanish Autopistas and Autovías

[willo]

oh my god most of these highways were made before Spain entered EU so stop talking about european funds. you can talk about them in highways in andalucia or extremadura but not in Madrid

[ChrisZwolle]

Since when were these major M-ringroads constructed? I thought they aren't older then 10 years...

[balasto]

Originally Posted by Chris1491

Since when were these major M-ringroads constructed? I thought they aren't older then 10 years...

M-30 was built in 60's and 70's. I don't know when M-40 was started (80's?), but it was finished in the early 90's. M-45 was finished in 2002, I think. Some new streches of M-50 have been finished around 2003-2004, other in 2005.

[FOLK]

New south by pass. Tunnel

M-30 EPB Tunnel Boring Machine

Dimensions of the Earth Pressure Balance type TBM make it the largest one ever built to date in the world.Cutting head.
Diameter: 15 m
TBM-EPB Length: 14 m
TBM-EPB Weight: 3,600 TBack up
Length: 146 m.
Weight: 1,300 TOverall dimensions
Length: 160 m.
Total weight: 4,900Main bearing (manufactured in a sole piece)
Diameter: 8.7 m.
Weight: 50 TCutting progress
Average daily advance rate is 20 m per day.Total power installed
1,500 kw.


MORE M30 IN THIS BLOG:
http://urbanscraper.blogspot.com/search/label/M30











PDF tunnel .Tizona:
http://www.munimadrid.es/Medios/Most...OCUMENTO=32074



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MORE M30 IN THIS BLOG:
http://urbanscraper.blogspot.com/search/label/M30

[willo]

true. and al those you see with A1,A2,A3,A4,A5 and A6 were constructed in Franco's era

[nick_-_taylor]

Originally Posted by The traveler

I am agree with you until the last paragraph, which most of that is just your opinion. On the other hand, I can support my theory about Spanish firms could use their profits from construction and other economic areas for booming a new economy based in alternative energies and some kind of high technology that can be competitive with the two giants, US and China.

Probably you should know that immigration is a great factor of economy growth, US is a good example of this. Furthermore, the foundations of US Economy are real state and construction industry, the same ingredients that we can find in today's Spanish Economy, so I think is nothing wrong about immigration as a economy factor.

As I said before no rational data supports your point, it is just an opinion probably based in some kind of educated guess. But if you want to convince me and the rest of the people in this forum you should provide us with more data and facts and not opinions, please. Also, I would like to know what and how UK is making progress in order to be such as competitive economy and contributes to the EU's wealth.

Of course, immigration is a factor in most economies growth...but there also has to be develoment of society to progress further (eg more graduates, etc...). France for instance is a country with a larger population and faster population growth than Britain, yet its economic growth lags behind Britain. Factor that in relation to population and France comes off poorly. Why? It is a protectionist society that looks short-term and denies most of its citizens the opportunity to strike out and make it (hence why quite a few come to Britain). These figures are easily available (eg growth figures from The Economist, population figures from the EU) and highlight the situation.

The fact is, immigration will someday come to a standstill or political processes will want limits...where is economic growth going to come from then? Quite simply Spain needs to look at itself, and move towards an image of growth that specialises in niche markets to propel itself through the next few years.

The reason the UK is progressing is that:
- Agricultural waste (refer to CAP and the efficiency levels of British farmers compared to the average European farmer) has been slashed
- Protectionist measures that keep industries 'safe' from foreign competition and possible takeovers at the cost of innovation have been cut
- The knowledge economy (of which again universities are Britains' strong point) has been embraced
- Move towards high-tech niche manufacturing, and financial and business services (of which Britain is the leader in Europe, with London larger than most countries for the later)

And the reason other countries in Europe don't go down this avenue? Because they are scared of loosing their national identity and think in the short-term. The Scandinavians have perfected what Britain is doing and the rest of Europe should follow....yet this is totally off the original points made by myself.

[valhar2000]

Originally Posted by Extrematurensis

Maybe this kind of complex that we have is helping us to improve. When you think that you are doing things worse than others you try to improve. Other countries think they are better than the rest and they are just falling behind, because they don´t realize that they also need to improve.


Just a thought.

I think that this sort of inferiority complex can also give rise to two other attitudes:

1) Thinking that there's a good reason you are so far behind, therefore it is useless to even try; you're just going to fail.

2) You are not inferior! You are actually superior! It looks like you are inferior to other people, true, but that is just because they are blinded by their capitalist, imperialist passions.

The latter is not all that common in Spain, although it is not hard to find people in Madrid who think like that. The former is very common, and has been since before I was born; certainly during my entire life.

There is now tension between groups of people who advocate Extrematurensis' view, and the people who advocate the ones I have epxlained. Mr. Gallardón obviously advocates improving Madrid as much as possible, and he has many supporters, but the rest of the people criticize him very harshly, claiming that he is only flushing money down the drain (or into his pockets).

We will have to see which if the competing ideals wins in the end, and I am sure that the success of this project will play a big part in that.

[cyberjaya]

the whole project is amazing. I'll need to rent a car when I visit Madrid.

[valhar2000]

Originally Posted by MaxxPower

"Mommy, why is Spain getting more money than me? I want to build motorways and high-speed trains too! "

"Oh, but you already have motorways, what about those?"

"But they're old and they don't have that sexy, new black asphalt, viaducts and shiny markings that Spain's have!"

Bunch of cry babies. This lack of solidarity, nationalistic tendencies and narrowmindedness has no place in 21st century Europe. Does it ever occur to those who complain that levelling things out will greatly benefit everyone, including the country they themselves live in and are so fond of?

Not referring to anyone in particular, just a general pattern of behaviour I have noticed.

How right you are!

[FJP]

Two new videos of Dulcinea and Tizona (the TBMs)
Sorry, but are in spanish.

http://www.munimadrid.es/Principal/E...ur256%20OK.wmv

http://www.munimadrid.es/Principal/E...ZONA%20256.wmv

[Bsrt]

Originally Posted by nick_-_taylor

- Protectionist measures that keep industries 'safe' from foreign competition and possible takeovers at the cost of innovation have been cut

You say that French system is not competitve because of the protectionism, but then you tell us that the protectionism in British industries is making Britain grow fast, how you can explain me that?¿? if we live in a free market system, it is for all, and not for one investors and other consumers...
I remember when british media was so angry with Spanish companys buying british ones (Santander group bought Abbey, Telefónica bought O2, and Ferrovial bought BAA), but the way of looking it is not that one, look at germans, they invested in Spain, not as Britain that considered it as a third world country when we entered EU, now, german products are all around spain, and spanish companys are "invading" british market...
I don't have anything against britain, London is one of my favourite cities in the world, I think is a great country, but think things before talking...

About the transport system in Madrid, it is huge, but you have to consider that the density is huge, in half space of London or less there are only 1'5 million inhabitants less! Also is the result of a good planning from the start of the works, very effective, but sometimes, not so estetical... Luckyly, this stetical threats are being eliminated now with the refurbishment of M-30...

[torke]

Great videos, it is really amazing what is happening down there!

[FOLK]

Originally Posted by FJP

Two new videos of Dulcinea and Tizona (the TBMs)
Sorry, but are in spanish.

http://www.munimadrid.es/Principal/E...ur256%20OK.wmv

http://www.munimadrid.es/Principal/E...ZONA%20256.wmv

Great videos

[The traveler]

Originally Posted by nick_-_taylor

Of course, immigration is a factor in most economies growth...but there also has to be develoment of society to progress further (eg more graduates, etc...). France for instance is a country with a larger population and faster population growth than Britain, yet its economic growth lags behind Britain. Factor that in relation to population and France comes off poorly. Why? It is a protectionist society that looks short-term and denies most of its citizens the opportunity to strike out and make it (hence why quite a few come to Britain). These figures are easily available (eg growth figures from The Economist, population figures from the EU) and highlight the situation.

The fact is, immigration will someday come to a standstill or political processes will want limits...where is economic growth going to come from then? Quite simply Spain needs to look at itself, and move towards an image of growth that specialises in niche markets to propel itself through the next few years.

The reason the UK is progressing is that:
- Agricultural waste (refer to CAP and the efficiency levels of British farmers compared to the average European farmer) has been slashed
- Protectionist measures that keep industries 'safe' from foreign competition and possible takeovers at the cost of innovation have been cut
- The knowledge economy (of which again universities are Britains' strong point) has been embraced
- Move towards high-tech niche manufacturing, and financial and business services (of which Britain is the leader in Europe, with London larger than most countries for the later)

And the reason other countries in Europe don't go down this avenue? Because they are scared of loosing their national identity and think in the short-term. The Scandinavians have perfected what Britain is doing and the rest of Europe should follow....yet this is totally off the original points made by myself.

Wow, it took me almost 15 days to give you an answer back, "shame on me" as President Bush should be say, I apologize for this delay and I cannot find any excuse for that. Moreover, when I have been writing in others threats rather than here. I am sorry for Madrilians as well.

As a matter of fact the two most importants reasons of Spanish Economy's growth are the join of Euro currency and the immigration. The first, keeps the interest rate low and lets consumers boost the economy. The second, increases Economy's size. But, as you said before it implies fit the new income's population into old ones.

Therefore, Spain is doing its homework because in the last two years have been naturalized more than 1 million immigrants. However, it has not been proved that this new population would contribute to Spanish's Economy as the old ones do. Moreover, questions such as would be second immigrant generation join Spanish's Universities, are immigrants going to create new business and would be a new immigrant Spanish entrepreneur generation. In fact, they do, looks Madrid's economic growth rates. But most of these are long term questions that only we can answer later.

The second point about Spanish's technology is a reality in today's economy. Spain rather than loose most of its industrial capacity,such as automobile, machine tool, manufacturing and construction supplies (an important area in last years) it is adding new industries such as, wind power, aeronautic, alternative energies and biofuels. It is amazing see new projects about biofuel plants just a 5 years old technology, or solar power plants. Spanish engineering firms are living a golden age under construction boom and new alternative energy wave.

Finally, the key about this new economy's model would be high technology, environmental entrepreneurship and knowledge economy, all of them based in high education institutions such as universities, research institutes, and private research; also, would be important entrepreneurs, ventura capitalism and financial angels to close the circle of growth. But I think Spain's society and economy have such as large momentum that everything is posible and adaptation would be affordable. For example, the government is changing legislation to create a company in 72 hours when was required four months of paperwork before. Another example is the large number of research parks that would be open in Spain in the following years.

[Dreamliner]

Wow! Really impressive. Viva Madrid!

[Peshu]

Maybe some people are offended by the fact that Spain is becoming one of Europes most important countries in both economics and influence . What some people like Nick Taylor don't seem to want to grasp is that Spain has for centuries been one of the worlds most important countries . It was only during the brief and shameful years of that little man named Franco that Spain fell into a hole that it should never have fallen into .
Unbelievable misconceptions about Spain in general still abound in the outside world . But things seem to be changing . I can't believe the headlines that Madrid is making in the Australian media of late . You even see many people on the streets with t-shirts that have Madrid or Ibiza written on it . Something that i have never seen before in Australia .
They even had a segment on Madrid nightlife dubbed '' the nightlife capital of Europe '' on one of the countries most popular shows . Getaway . Bravo for Spain and bravo for Madrid in particular . Over-rated cities such as London have been making their propagandistic mark for a long time now . It's about bloody time Madrid did the same .
So let's cut the bullshit about Madrid receiving so much funding from the E.U . Spains economy has been Europes economic miracle since that little man Franco died . ole .

[Engel]

Madrid has been developping many facilities and infrastructures sice 10 or 15 years. A huge road network and Underground train (Metro). The first Metro line was open in 1.919, but now a days, there are 14, and it is reaching 300 stations.
Only in the next few months, more than 90 Kms. of new lines or the extension of existing ones, are going to be opened. Aswell as 80 Kms of new regional highways in its Metropolitan area. The cost of theese new Metro lines has been about $ 5 billion. And, believe it or not, they have been constructed in less than 4 years, by our regional government.
The new air terminal in Barajas Intl. Airport, wich is already number 5 in Europe and 13 in the world, has started working last february. It is considered as one of the best existing, it has completed 4 runways also. The airport will be able to asume 70 million passangers. Actually it serves, 42,5 million. The cost of 2 new runways and the 2 brand new air terminals has been over $7,2 billion.
Inside the city a very impressive tunnel system (to ways- 4 lanes each), is now under construction by the City Hall. The reason is they want to do something similar to Boston,s famous underground highway. Madrid,s M-30 ring highway, spoils the river sides and polutes. So they are doing a new one as a tunnel. The surface left, will be converted into parks, and gardens, (600.000 sq. meters). The cost of it: More than $ 5 billion, and has been worked out in 4 years aswell.
If you add to this, an enormous lot of smaller works, new theaters, and all kinds of social equipements, for sports, culture, education etc, you will probably think that something serious is happening here.
We ourselves are sometimes surprised by the strength and deepness of all these changes. But i,m sure that Madrid, in a few years will achieve the 3rd place in Europe,s ranking, after London and Paris.
Sorry about my english, I don,t practice too much.

[frozen]

Originally Posted by Peshu

Maybe some people are offended by the fact that Spain is becoming one of Europes most important countries in both economics and influence . What some people like Nick Taylor don't seem to want to grasp is that Spain has for centuries been one of the worlds most important countries . It was only during the brief and shameful years of that little man named Franco that Spain fell into a hole that it should never have fallen into .
Unbelievable misconceptions about Spain in general still abound in the outside world . But things seem to be changing . I can't believe the headlines that Madrid is making in the Australian media of late . You even see many people on the streets with t-shirts that have Madrid or Ibiza written on it . Something that i have never seen before in Australia .
They even had a segment on Madrid nightlife dubbed '' the nightlife capital of Europe '' on one of the countries most popular shows . Getaway . Bravo for Spain and bravo for Madrid in particular . Over-rated cities such as London have been making their propagandistic mark for a long time now . It's about bloody time Madrid did the same .
So let's cut the bullshit about Madrid receiving so much funding from the E.U . Spains economy has been Europes economic miracle since that little man Franco died . ole .

I think the same, lots of people try to misvalue the spanish growth economy.And always with the same pretext "Funds, funds and funds". But other countries as Portugal or Greece had been received funds too (Portugal more than Spain per capita), but they didnt grow as Spain. We are doing good.

[juanpe_r]

don´t worry people....IT´S ALWAYS THE SAME!!!!!!! WHY SPAIN (ALWAYS POOR) IS NOW RICH?? we don´t know do anything....hehehhe

-MADRID is the third RICHEST city in europe.
-we wrouth more tha 4% every year.
-unemployment is about 6%.
-And we are 6 million inhabitants...so there is enough money for all that motorways.....and not only for that also for:

6 BILLION EURO AIRPORT.
90 KM NEW METRO. 4500 MILLION EURO
M30 RING ROAD TUNNELS (MORE THAN 50 KM OF GALLERIES)
7 INTERMODAL STATIONS.
8 HOSPITALS.
ETC.....ETC....

ALL THIS THINGS ARE PAID BY EU FOUNDS??????????' DON´T MAKE ME LAUGH

[juanpe_r]

UPPPSSS-.......ALL THIS NEW THING IN ONLY 4 YEARS, 2004-2007. not the airport