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Old April 12th, 2009, 01:44 PM   #1241
spacetweek
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Originally Posted by Cicerón View Post
BTW, for those who speak Spanish, there's an interesting article about the new bridge in the Bay of Cádiz, which is 25% built now. Here it is:

http://www.fomento.es/NR/rdonlyres/6...31/Ma04_12.pdf
I've read the article but I'm trying to figure out where exactly this bridge is being built at Cadiz. Is it parallel to N443 or CA33? Or is it a continuation of Calle Perú across the bay?
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Old April 12th, 2009, 01:55 PM   #1242
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I've always been confused about the way motorways are shown in Spain in European maps. Most of the "motorways" are indicated as dual carriageways, though I'm aware that many of them are full motorways. The rule that Philips etc. seem to use is that autopistas are motorways but autovias are not.
Yes, Autovía's are generally not shown as motorways on most maps.

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Can someone clarify what exactly the difference is between them if any? It makes it very hard to figure out what the total length of motorway is in Spain.
Basically; Autopista = toll, Autovía = toll free. They have basically the same design, though Autovía's often have more exits and fewer services. There were/are some substandard Autovía's that still have to be reconstructed to motorway standards, but basically, an Autovía is a motorway.
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Old April 12th, 2009, 02:11 PM   #1243
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Roads like the carreteras with motorway features that you mention can't be included until they are upgraded. If they don't have legal motorway restrictions, then they aren't motorways.
Yes, this is true. This is why I said "design features of motorways."

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Can someone clarify what exactly the difference is between them if any? It makes it very hard to figure out what the total length of motorway is in Spain.
It has been dealt with several times upthread, including on Page 41. Briefly, Norma 3.1-IC is your authoritative source. An autopista does not allow slow traffic and has absolutely no access from abutting properties, while an autovía can allow slow traffic (which has to be prohibited by separate signs in order for the autovía to function as a "hidden autopista") and theoretically can have (but in practice rarely, if ever, has) limited frontage access. As has also been pointed out upthread, first-generation autovías represent a special case because there was a more sharply defined difference between them and autopistas in terms of geometric design and signing when they were first built. Autovías used to have white-background signs, curves on them could be sharper than on autopistas, etc. Nowadays most geometric design features of autopistas and autovías are subsumed into a common design classification in Norma 3.1-IC.

It is true, as Chris says, that autovías are free, while autopistas can be and usually are toll roads. But there are free autopistas too. The chopsticks sign differentiates them from autovías.
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Old April 12th, 2009, 05:42 PM   #1244
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Originally Posted by spacetweek View Post
I've read the article but I'm trying to figure out where exactly this bridge is being built at Cadiz. Is it parallel to N443 or CA33? Or is it a continuation of Calle Perú across the bay?
It will be over Calle Perú.

This map may help you



Also...



About the autovías/autopistas... it's a mess. There are some toll-free autopistas, as the A-66 in Asturias or the A-6 in Madrid, because they were built as a totally new motorway, unlike the first-generation autovías. Today the new autovías have this sign:

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Old April 13th, 2009, 12:34 AM   #1245
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Looks like Macedonian guard rails, just that they use shitty color.
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Old April 13th, 2009, 02:05 AM   #1246
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Quote:
Can someone clarify what exactly the difference is between them if any? It makes it very hard to figure out what the total length of motorway is in Spain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by J N Winkler View Post
It has been dealt with several times upthread, including on Page 41. Briefly, Norma 3.1-IC is your authoritative source. An autopista does not allow slow traffic and has absolutely no access from abutting properties, while an autovía can allow slow traffic (which has to be prohibited by separate signs in order for the autovía to function as a "hidden autopista") and theoretically can have (but in practice rarely, if ever, has) limited frontage access. As has also been pointed out upthread, first-generation autovías represent a special case because there was a more sharply defined difference between them and autopistas in terms of geometric design and signing when they were first built. Autovías used to have white-background signs, curves on them could be sharper than on autopistas, etc. Nowadays most geometric design features of autopistas and autovías are subsumed into a common design classification in Norma 3.1-IC.

It is true, as Chris says, that autovías are free, while autopistas can be and usually are toll roads. But there are free autopistas too. The chopsticks sign differentiates them from autovías.
very good explanation..

I´d add that everything called autovias would be in other european and also american countries included in the "motorways" map..

for sure asians too..
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Old April 13th, 2009, 10:43 AM   #1247
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[QUOTE=Aokromes;35016932]AP-1 Gasteiz-Eskoriatza:



Nice pics of the AP-1. What is the exact situation between Eibar and Vitoria right now. Which parts are finished and which parts still need to be finished. Does anyone have further information?
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Old April 13th, 2009, 11:54 AM   #1248
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There is a small gap ~7km from Eskoriatza to Arrasate unfinished, it must be open on few monts, but that part of the non Autopista road is not bad.

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Last edited by Aokromes; April 13th, 2009 at 11:59 AM.
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Old April 13th, 2009, 12:42 PM   #1249
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That is good to hear. So I have another alternative route to drive besides the A1 and the A-15/A-10 when I'll go there this summer.
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Old April 17th, 2009, 06:29 PM   #1250
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Some images of the A-3 autovía and the R-3 motorway (tolled) to Madrid next to the city of Arganda del Rey.

You can choose, A-3 (free) or R-3 (tolled) to Madrid, exit on 3km:


Poor quality of asphalt:


500m to leave the A-3:


Exit on the A-3:


This is the R-3:


Driving to Madrid on the R-3:


View over Madrid of the 4 new skyscrapers (Cuatro Torres Business Area):
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Old April 18th, 2009, 08:25 PM   #1251
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Amazing view..!!!..

Question for you.. is it really worth paying the toll? Because when I travel to and from morocco and we pass through madrid, we can choose whether to take the A4 or the R4...
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Old April 18th, 2009, 10:31 PM   #1252
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How decent are AP roads ? Are they much different than A roads ?
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Old April 18th, 2009, 10:46 PM   #1253
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AP-roads generally have a better alignment, less sharp curves etc, because they were mostly build on new alignments, while the A-roads often (especially the older ones) are basically reconstructed N-roads.
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Old April 18th, 2009, 10:49 PM   #1254
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A bit better (a bit less winding and very well signposted)
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Old April 18th, 2009, 11:20 PM   #1255
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Just as I thought

Motorway and expressway
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Old April 18th, 2009, 11:23 PM   #1256
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I think you can compare an Autovía to the new 2x2 Droga Ekspresowas they are building in Poland
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Old April 19th, 2009, 07:44 PM   #1257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LilMocr0 View Post
Amazing view..!!!..

Question for you.. is it really worth paying the toll? Because when I travel to and from morocco and we pass through madrid, we can choose whether to take the A4 or the R4...

The quality of the asphalt on the "Radiales" (also on the R-3) is much better in general then on the normal Autovías.

- When it's very bussy leaving or entering Madrid it is better and in most cases faster to take the R-3, because they're not jammed with the traffic enetering or leaving Madrid.
- when you need to go to other cities in the neighbourhood which are not connected by autovías. For example: from the A-3 (like the town of Mejorada del Campo or Velilla de San Antonio and even a city like torrejon de Ardoz or the village Loeches) In this case it would be a good choice to take the R-3.


(Just check it on google maps or google earth and write: Aranjuez, you will see the A-4 on the western side of the town and very soon the beginning of the R-4)

It depends on which day and which time you pass Madrid.
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Old April 21st, 2009, 07:21 PM   #1258
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One thing i must say is that what's the ******* point of giving spain these motorways when one hardly no one drives on them only near big cities and two there drivers lunatics who deserved to get shot! Other then that Spain has good roads a bit to many for it's size though/
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Old April 21st, 2009, 07:22 PM   #1259
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Those are some reflective skyscrapers alright .
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Old April 21st, 2009, 07:58 PM   #1260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timmy- brissy View Post
One thing i must say is that what's the ******* point of giving spain these motorways when one hardly no one drives on them only near big cities and two there drivers lunatics who deserved to get shot! Other then that Spain has good roads a bit to many for it's size though/
because they WANT TO BUILD THEM...

in GB (and Netherland, etc.) the problem is not the (lack of) money, but the greenysm and nimbysm and trainism...

Last edited by H123Laci; April 21st, 2009 at 08:04 PM.
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