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Old July 10th, 2009, 04:53 PM   #1341
Motorways
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Guys, in your opinion, what´s the spanish highway network main lack?

For me, and i just realize of this not long ago, Spain has a great and extensive network, but now has come the time to make the main highways not just with two lanes per way when entering the main cities, but at least three lanes per way.

Las time i returned by the A5, not the busiest entrance to Madrid, on a Sunday night, we were totally stuck from the KM 80 till Mardrid, and that highway is just 2 lanes per way until you are 14 km away from Madrid.

That a shame, that kind of roads in cities such as Madrid and Barcelona should have at least three lanes if not four since at least 50 - 100 kms away the city, and in cities such as Valencia or Seville since at least 30 kms away.

That´s how i see it.

What do you think?
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Old July 10th, 2009, 05:00 PM   #1342
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I do not have Spanish traffic volume statistics, so I can't really say anything about it, but I guess you're right.
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Old July 10th, 2009, 07:22 PM   #1343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motorways View Post
Guys, in your opinion, what´s the spanish highway network main lack?

For me, and i just realize of this not long ago, Spain has a great and extensive network, but now has come the time to make the main highways not just with two lanes per way when entering the main cities, but at least three lanes per way.

Las time i returned by the A5, not the busiest entrance to Madrid, on a Sunday night, we were totally stuck from the KM 80 till Mardrid, and that highway is just 2 lanes per way until you are 14 km away from Madrid.

That a shame, that kind of roads in cities such as Madrid and Barcelona should have at least three lanes if not four since at least 50 - 100 kms away the city, and in cities such as Valencia or Seville since at least 30 kms away.

That´s how i see it.

What do you think?
You are probably right, the problem is that these motorways are very old and is very hard to improve them because there are a lot of buildings next to the road and/or they are very busy and it's not easy to do the works safely and without cause a trafic jam of hundreds of km, but they are trying!, A-42 is one of such radial and busy motorways, it have 3 lanes (+ 2 service lanes in some places) from Madrid to the kp 17 (and are very narrow because it had not enough space when was expanded) and they are going to re-build it underground.
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Old July 11th, 2009, 12:57 PM   #1344
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Out of the 6 radial motorways in Madrid, only A6 has 3-4 lanes per way in the first 100 km.

In the rest, there are only 20-30 km of 3-lanes, so it makes big traffic jams on holidays and so.
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Old July 11th, 2009, 06:45 PM   #1345
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As far as I know, the plan for refurbishing the first generation autovías includes new lanes reserved for public transport and a widening from 2+2 to 3+3 in the first kilometres.
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Old July 12th, 2009, 11:43 PM   #1346
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Except in certain dense corridors, interstate highways in the U.S. are 2X2 until a few miles outside of the metro area.

Having 3X3 highways 50-100 km outside of a major city is a VERY expensive proposition. But in Europe, and especially Spain, they invest the money to have a top rate infrastructure.
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Old July 12th, 2009, 11:48 PM   #1347
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US traffic volumes usually drop to 20,000 - 30,000 immediatly after you leave the metropolitan area. Intercity traffic is low compared to Europe, many German Autobahns have 60,000 - 80,000 on intercity roads, and Dutch and British roads are even topping 100,000 on rural roads.

I guess Spain falls somewhere in between. I don't actually have any AADT stats of Spain unfortunatly.
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Old July 14th, 2009, 01:31 PM   #1348
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Madrid regional government has an interesting tool to show AADTs (in Spanish IMD or Intensidad Media de Tráfico).
http://gestiona.madrid.org/cartograf.../web/index.htm

Or you can download the report in PDF at the end of this text:
http://www.madrid.org/cs/Satellite?c...=1109266100977 (only data for Madrid owned motorways available)

A1
14km: 122,500
22km: 104,000
41km: 55,000
76km: 28,000
88km: 29,000

A2
13km: 121,000
19km: 150,000
29km: 73,000
38km: 4?,000

A3
13km: 135,000
16km: 58,000
47km: 35,000

A4
No data?

A5
24km: 75,500
32km: 61,000

A6
21km: 101,500
28km: 89,000
38km: 87,000
45km: 44,000

It has to be noted that A6 is mainly 3x3 and that users of A2, A3, A4 and A5 can use the empty tolled alternatives of R2, R3, R4 and R5.
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Old July 16th, 2009, 09:20 PM   #1349
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Exit 1143


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Old July 16th, 2009, 11:44 PM   #1350
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That's because it's so long.
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Old July 17th, 2009, 11:59 AM   #1351
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Repost, pics from Picasa don't work again (sometimes, Google does suck)
[IMG]http://i28.************/6sxpb7.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i25.************/2f096pc.jpg[/IMG]
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Old July 17th, 2009, 02:02 PM   #1352
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Highest in Spain I saw is 900 or something
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Old July 18th, 2009, 06:42 PM   #1353
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It's funny that the exits in the AP-7 are numbered from the French border to the south, but in the A-7 they're numbered from Algeciras to the north (as in the N-340).

BTW, when the A-7 is finished, it will be 1,330 km long according to Wikipedia.
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Old July 19th, 2009, 03:32 AM   #1354
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It's more bizarre even:

AP-7 and A-7 run (or will run) parallel for a big strecht (hundreds of km). AP-7 is numbered from the French border, to its terminus at Alicante.

I'm not sure, but from Alicante to Murcia, the motorway is tagged as A-7 but the mileage continues from the French border (explanation: this strecht was built before the A-7 after Murcia). There is another AP-7 which branches out from A-7 but doesn't arrive to Murcia, but to Cartagena, and finish there -although AP-32 starts from Cartagena and meets A-7 again-.

After Murcia the A-7 is decreasing mileage... The A-7 starts at Algeciras but the mileage starts some 100 km before, at Cádiz; as it does N-340. The motorway -under construction- from Cádiz to Algeciras won't be A-7, but A-48. May be the Government is waiting the A-7 to be completed to re-number all the mileage -at present, there is a minor strecht with no motorway at Granada province-.
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Old July 19th, 2009, 11:00 AM   #1355
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Actually, AP-7 doesn't terminate at Alicante, it runs straight to Vera, and there is another section between Málaga and Guadiaro. Total length: 1007 km.

A-7 fills in the gap between Algeciras and Guadiaro, Málaga to Vera, and runs parallel to other sections of AP-7, usually somewhat further inland, especially between Alicante and Valencia, where it runs significantly further inland than AP-7.

I also doubt if A-7 will ever run north of Barcelona (sources say it runs to the French border at La Jonquera), I think A-2 will run along that section north of Barcelona.
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Old July 19th, 2009, 01:10 PM   #1356
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generally, those AP and A things are hell complicated
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Old July 19th, 2009, 01:17 PM   #1357
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If you think thát is complicated, you should really dig into the Spanish numbering system.

It's by far more complicated than that, road numbers can have up to 4-digits, there can be dozens of prefixes and a significant number of suffixes.

How about "TV-1084z"?
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Old July 19th, 2009, 04:59 PM   #1358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I also doubt if A-7 will ever run north of Barcelona (sources say it runs to the French border at La Jonquera), I think A-2 will run along that section north of Barcelona.
Yep, that will be the A-2

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Originally Posted by x-type View Post
generally, those AP and A things are hell complicated
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
If you think thát is complicated, you should really dig into the Spanish numbering system.

It's by far more complicated than that, road numbers can have up to 4-digits, there can be dozens of prefixes and a significant number of suffixes.

How about "TV-1084z"?


Yeah, some Autonomous communities have weird numbering systems. Catalonia and Castile & Leon, for instance, still use those "P" and "V" after the province code (what do they mean? P for "provincial" and V for "vecinal"?)

Hell, look at these:
BP-1503ant (for antigua, old)
BP-1503var (for variante, turnoff)

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anexo:C..._Catalu%C3%B1a


Fortunately my region uses a simpler system:
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anexo:C...as_de_La_Rioja



BTW, the Dutch Army is invading Spain!

In HD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nduJfaWLDIw
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Old July 19th, 2009, 06:35 PM   #1359
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Those movies are great. Clicks twice so that you'll be directed to youtube and then watch on HD.
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Old July 20th, 2009, 08:07 PM   #1360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motorways View Post
Guys, in your opinion, what´s the spanish highway network main lack?

For me, and i just realize of this not long ago, Spain has a great and extensive network, but now has come the time to make the main highways not just with two lanes per way when entering the main cities, but at least three lanes per way.

Las time i returned by the A5, not the busiest entrance to Madrid, on a Sunday night, we were totally stuck from the KM 80 till Mardrid, and that highway is just 2 lanes per way until you are 14 km away from Madrid.

That a shame, that kind of roads in cities such as Madrid and Barcelona should have at least three lanes if not four since at least 50 - 100 kms away the city, and in cities such as Valencia or Seville since at least 30 kms away.

That´s how i see it.

What do you think?
One also have to consider the fact that many spaniards generally drive to agressive wich generate artificial traffic jams. If the average José would ease up a little and drive with patience and keep the distance I bet that more than half of all the traffic jams would evaporate.
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