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Old August 11th, 2009, 04:00 AM   #1421
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gölem II View Post
Those pics are on this forum.
Motorways are only built by the central goverment (the plan 2005-2020) or by the goverments of the autonomous comunities (like states) so 15.000 km of highways have been planned by CENTRAL goverment, the other 19 autonomous territories build their own highway system which change every day, so it's not possible to know how many kilometres will be in Spain in 2020 (it's possible that the president of Andalucía build 2000 new kilometres of no planed highways...)
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Ok, but how many kilomiter are you going to have until 2020?
Quite difficult, the plan, call PEIT, is going to be renegociate with autonomous comunities. I think it is not so crazy to think Spain could have 20 000 km of motorways by 2020.
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Old August 11th, 2009, 02:50 PM   #1422
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I never understood why they have toll roads in Spain while they are building decent toll free motorways right next to it (especially the case with A-7/AP-7, but also with others, such as A-2/AP-2 and AP-68 and A-68)
Most of toll motorways are build for people who want to avoid traffic jams, that's the reason of the too expensive prices. Other toll motorways are build when it's too expensive to build them (too many bridges/tunnels or if they are needed soon because toll motorways are builded faster) and there are some autonomic motorways with toll in the shadow (people don't pay for use them, the government don't pay to build them but they pay for each vehicle that uses the motorway up to a limit) like CM-42 or M-45.
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Old August 11th, 2009, 04:29 PM   #1423
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Last friday, I was driving back to Holland from Morocco. I used the new section of the AP-1 between Vitoria and Eibar. It's one of the most amazing pieces of motorway construction I have ever seen. Your almost constantly have the same routine of tunnel/bridge/tunnel/bridge. There were quite a few large tunnels; one was 3,4 km, another one was 2,2 if I remember correctly
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Old August 11th, 2009, 04:40 PM   #1424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I never understood why they have toll roads in Spain while they are building decent toll free motorways right next to it (especially the case with A-7/AP-7, but also with others, such as A-2/AP-2 and AP-68 and A-68)
Well, the main problem is that the truck drivers almost never take the tolled motorways. That means that the local traffic has to share the road with them. I don't know if it is a coincidence but the most dangerous roads are those which run parallel to a tolled motorway: The N-I between Burgos and Miranda, the N-II between Zaragoza and Fraga, the N-232 especially between Zaragoza and Logroño, the N-340...

Also, some of those roads you mention are not exactly right next to eachother. For instance the A-7/AP-7 between Alicante and Valencia: The AP-7 goes along the coast, while the A-7 goes through the interior. The same can be said with the A-2/AP-2 between Lleida and Barcelona, where they serve different towns.

As for the AP-68 and the AP-2 between Zaragoza and Fraga, I agree with you. The solution would be removing the tolls and building new junctions to serve the local population. Fortunately they're starting to do this: The new minister said that they were to remove the toll and to widen the AP-2 from 2+2 to 3+3. Also, the AP-68 will be toll-free and widened to 3+3 for about 30 km near Logroño (and it will be called A-68).

BTW, I have the maps for the future A-68 and the rest of metropolitan roads near Logroño:

From W to E:






The A-12+A-68 interchange will be different though.
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Old August 11th, 2009, 05:23 PM   #1425
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A-7 and AP-7 beween Alicante and Almeria follow different paths, but as I have said the AP-7 south of Cartagena was empty.
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Old August 12th, 2009, 04:58 PM   #1426
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LilMocr0 View Post
Last friday, I was driving back to Holland from Morocco. I used the new section of the AP-1 between Vitoria and Eibar. It's one of the most amazing pieces of motorway construction I have ever seen. Your almost constantly have the same routine of tunnel/bridge/tunnel/bridge. There were quite a few large tunnels; one was 3,4 km, another one was 2,2 if I remember correctly
I also drove this new part of the AP-1 when I drove from Germany to Portugal. It is definetly a great motorway with this tunnels and bridges, but 9,77 € is quite expensive from my point of view.
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Old August 12th, 2009, 07:20 PM   #1427
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You know very well the reason they charge that big ammount of money, also i have read they have removed the free route marks to get more ppl to AP-1, there are no more "Vitoria-Gasteiz" on the A-1/N-I road.
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Old August 12th, 2009, 07:24 PM   #1428
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They should significant lower the tolls to attract some more traffic from the free highways in my opinion. Why pay € 10 while there's a good, free alternative?

Tolling only works if it is long-distance, or there are objects which are hard to find an alternative for (like bridges or tunnels).
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Old August 12th, 2009, 08:07 PM   #1429
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Well, Etxegarate is far from a "good" alternative, and the road have a lot of trafic and most of ppl don't knows the other free alternative (A-15)

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El camión que transportaba la TD2000 subiendo Etxegarate:


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Old August 13th, 2009, 11:39 AM   #1430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aokromes View Post
You know very well the reason they charge that big ammount of money, also i have read they have removed the free route marks to get more ppl to AP-1, there are no more "Vitoria-Gasteiz" on the A-1/N-I road.
That's right. I also saw that when I was driving there. On my way back I used the way over the Etxegarate, but I have used the alternative over the A-15 one year ago. The nicest way is the route over the AP-1, while the second best route is the A-15.

Btw I although realized that they completely removed the boarder crossing between Spain and France on the AP-8.
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Old August 13th, 2009, 02:41 PM   #1431
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Originally Posted by Seppl View Post
I also drove this new part of the AP-1 when I drove from Germany to Portugal. It is definetly a great motorway with this tunnels and bridges, but 9,77 € is quite expensive from my point of view.
Isn't €9,77 the toll for the Burgos-Armiñon section? According to viamichelin.com the part between Vitoria-Gasteiz and Eibar "only" costs €5,80. For that price I think it's reasonable to take the AP-1 instead of the A-1 past Etxegarate. Especially if you're going towards Vitoria-Gasteiz.
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Old August 13th, 2009, 03:27 PM   #1432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morsue View Post
Isn't €9,77 the toll for the Burgos-Armiñon section? According to viamichelin.com the part between Vitoria-Gasteiz and Eibar "only" costs €5,80. For that price I think it's reasonable to take the AP-1 instead of the A-1 past Etxegarate. Especially if you're going towards Vitoria-Gasteiz.
Yes, you're right. Maybe Seppl was referring to AP-8 + AP-1?
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Old August 13th, 2009, 03:29 PM   #1433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morsue View Post
Isn't €9,77 the toll for the Burgos-Armiñon section? According to viamichelin.com the part between Vitoria-Gasteiz and Eibar "only" costs €5,80. For that price I think it's reasonable to take the AP-1 instead of the A-1 past Etxegarate. Especially if you're going towards Vitoria-Gasteiz.
No, the part between Burgos-Armiñon is 9,80 € while the price between San Sebastian is 9,77 €. I am pretty sure about this since I paid for both routes four weeks ago.

The price for the route between Vitoria-Gasteiz and Eibar which is the new AP-1 might be 5,80 €, but you also have to consider the toll for the AP-8.

Yes. I was refering to AP-1, AP-8. I was just a little to slow.
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Old August 14th, 2009, 02:29 AM   #1434
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You're right, the toll is €9,77. That's because if you get on the new AP-1 at Vitoria/Gasteiz and you drive in the direction of France, you pay the toll just before San-Sebastian/Donostia, so you also pay for the AP-8
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Old August 14th, 2009, 03:57 AM   #1435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LilMocr0 View Post
You're right, the toll is €9,77. That's because if you get on the new AP-1 at Vitoria/Gasteiz and you drive in the direction of France, you pay the toll just before San-Sebastian/Donostia, so you also pay for the AP-8
Then there's a mistake in the ViaMichelin route calculator. They only give the total toll as €7,35 for the whole route, €5,80 at Zarautz and €1,55 at Irún. I guess they've missed another toll between Zarautz and San Sebastian/Donostia. Last time I passed I took the route over the N-I/A-1 past Etxegarate.
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Old August 14th, 2009, 03:19 PM   #1436
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morsue View Post
Then there's a mistake in the ViaMichelin route calculator. They only give the total toll as €7,35 for the whole route, €5,80 at Zarautz and €1,55 at Irún. I guess they've missed another toll between Zarautz and San Sebastian/Donostia. Last time I passed I took the route over the N-I/A-1 past Etxegarate.
I think the ViaMichelin route calculator calculates the toll for the AP-1 between Arasate and Zarautz. The part between Arasate and Vitoria is just not included in the calculation.

Anyway a very nice route and unfortunately I was not able to take some pictures while I was there.
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Old August 17th, 2009, 08:22 PM   #1437
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Old August 27th, 2009, 10:50 AM   #1438
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Today at 11:15 AM it will be open to traffic a new stretch of the A-66 "Autovía de la Plata" between Cuatro Calzadas-Montejo, 14,9 Km. long.

http://www.fomento.es/NR/rdonlyres/A...6/09082602.pdf

Last edited by disbesa; August 27th, 2009 at 11:26 AM.
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Old August 31st, 2009, 03:57 AM   #1439
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Great thread guys and love this site .. I am an Aussie and will be driving from Nice to Paris via Gibralter in October and have been searching everywhere for decent highway info for Spain. I am also a Petrol Tanker driver with many years of highway driving experience and think this site is brilliant.

I am looking at doing 1 section of the drive approx 800 k's each way through Spain in one stint and spending the resting of the time sightseeing. Any suggestions as to which route to take would be most appreciated. Would going via the coast and paying the tolls be the best bet or using the A-2 and no tolls but 200 extra k's be worth it.

Any suggestions will be most appreciated.

Cheers
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Old August 31st, 2009, 04:00 AM   #1440
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Originally Posted by SS Enforcer View Post
Great thread guys and love this site .. I am an Aussie and will be driving from Nice to Paris via Gibralter in October and have been searching everywhere for decent highway info for Spain. I am also a Petrol Tanker driver with many years of highway driving experience and think this site is brilliant.

I am looking at doing 1 section of the drive approx 800 k's each way through Spain in one stint and spending the resting of the time sightseeing. Any suggestions as to which route to take would be most appreciated. Would going via the coast and paying the tolls be the best bet or using the A-2 and no tolls but 200 extra k's be worth it.

Any suggestions will be most appreciated.

Cheers
Now that's what I call a detour
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