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Old May 21st, 2010, 02:36 AM   #1661
OriK
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The "Ministerio de Fomento" has decided to slow down the construction of infaestructure due the economical situation
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Old May 21st, 2010, 09:53 AM   #1662
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I don't think is a big problem, as long as they started to build motorways parallel to other motorways with an AADT of 2.000 (2.000, not 20.000).
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Old May 21st, 2010, 10:01 AM   #1663
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I agree. The Spanish motorway system is already outstanding.
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Old May 21st, 2010, 10:55 AM   #1664
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Spain did an excellent job with is highways. It brought its system from an underdeveloped standard to be almost as par with France, which started massive highway construction on the 60's. Its network surpassed Italia's in terms of coverage, mileage/area etc.

If only the Germans had kept the same impetus after reunification...
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Old May 21st, 2010, 11:45 PM   #1665
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
I don't think is a big problem, as long as they started to build motorways parallel to other motorways with an AADT of 2.000 (2.000, not 20.000).
I agree with you. And I hope this is the end of the construction madness we've experienced during the last decade regarding roads and airports (for example, in a rectangle of 200x130 km in Northern Spain, there are seven airports for a population of ~4.1 M ). Definitely we need a more rational way of building infrastructures.

-Finishing important corridors (A-7, A-8). There's no need to build a highway from Villarriba to Villabajo.

-Circunvalaciones and accesos (i.e. urban highways and ringroads) where needed.

-Retaking the concept of Vía Rápida (roads with limited access, no intersections at the same level, normally 2+1...). That's basically how the refurbished national roads look like (example). That should be enough for some long, dangerous corridors with too little traffic to build an autovía.

-"Liberalizing" some tolled motorways instead of building an autovía right next to them. Basically the AP-1, AP-2, AP-4 and AP-68.

-Promoting the freight rail. If I don't remember bad only the 4% of the freight is transported by rail in Spain, while the European average is about 18%. The problem is that we use a different gauge, but with the HSR that shouldn't be a problem. Some lines (e.g. the Basque Y) are being built for mixed traffic with a max speed of 250 km/h. Also the old tracks will be useless and can be changed into UIC gauge for freight rail.

I'd remove the "autovía" concept too. Once the first-generation ones are renewed, there would be no difference between an autopista and an autovía, except the toll, but I don't know any country that calls its tolled and free motorways in two different ways.
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Old May 21st, 2010, 11:54 PM   #1666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I agree. The Spanish motorway system is already outstanding.
I definitely agree but there are always necessities that are not covered.

Today I have gone from Quintanar de la Orden to San Sebastián, and I must admit that our system is really outstanding, except for highways in the Basque community, where they were the first one to be built and nowadays are the old and worst ones.
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Old May 22nd, 2010, 12:01 AM   #1667
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cicerón View Post
-Promoting the freight rail. If I don't remember bad only the 4% of the freight is transported by rail in Spain, while the European average is about 18%.
The domestic freight tonnage is ~400.000 tonnes rail and ~650.000.000 tonnes road in the Netherlands... That means it's only 0.06%...
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Old May 22nd, 2010, 11:09 AM   #1668
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how come freight rail isn't used as much as roads??
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Old May 22nd, 2010, 11:10 AM   #1669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cicerón View Post
I don't know any country that calls its tolled and free motorways in two different ways.
Italy
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Old May 22nd, 2010, 02:25 PM   #1670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cicerón View Post
I agree with you. And I hope this is the end of the construction madness we've experienced during the last decade regarding roads and airports (for example, in a rectangle of 200x130 km in Northern Spain, there are seven airports for a population of ~4.1 M ). Definitely we need a more rational way of building infrastructures.
I was expecting an announcement of this kind given that Fomento has not advertised any major highway construction contracts since early 2009.

I have mixed feelings about this. I have never driven in Spain, so my main interest in Spanish highways relates to the construction documentation. No new highways = no new proyectos de construcción to download and study. Going back in time would mean approaching Fomento directly and stating a reason for wanting the old projects . . .

Andalusia has been talking about a plan for "extraordinary" investment in highways, so construction probably won't stop altogether, but so far nothing of significance has been advertised.
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Old May 22nd, 2010, 03:22 PM   #1671
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The domestic freight tonnage is ~400.000 tonnes rail and ~650.000.000 tonnes road in the Netherlands... That means it's only 0.06%...
But inland waterways in The Netherlands have a share of about 40%, and this compensate the low share of railways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danielk2 View Post
how come freight rail isn't used as much as roads??
Among other problems, for international traffic the track gauge: in Spain and Portugal is different that in the rest of Europe, so goods must be transhipped between trains or wagons' bogies exchanged. And as border stations lies in mountainous or urbanized areas they can't be expanded much and have capacity problems.
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Old May 22nd, 2010, 04:12 PM   #1672
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danielk2 View Post
Italy
khm, not really. those with blue sign in Italy are just expressways, mostly without motorway standards. and green are mostly tolled (only exceptions an A3 are not tolled)
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Old May 22nd, 2010, 11:02 PM   #1673
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los anuncios de autopistas españoles se me hacen tan.... complicados, im very used to the mexican style, donde solo te avisan de pocas cosas
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Old May 23rd, 2010, 12:09 AM   #1674
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The thing is they are not frequent except for Madrid and some other communities.
Spanish law says:
Quote:
La colocación de toda publicidad comercial e institucional en las inmediaciones de carreteras y autopistas, tales como, vallas, señales, carteles, dibujos, avisos luminosos o no, pancartas, y demás medios similares, deberá ser autorizada por las autoridades competentes. Se entiende por inmediaciones de carreteras y autopistas una franja de cincuenta (50) metros medidos desde del eje de la vía en las autopistas nacionales, de treinta (30) metros medidos desde la vía en las carreteras pavimentadas y quince (15) metros medidos desde el eje de la vía en las carreteras no pavimentadas .
I don't have time to translate it, what it says is that as long as you ask for permission to the authorities you are allowed to install publicity visible from Spanish roads outside a city o village.
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Old May 23rd, 2010, 12:43 AM   #1675
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You won't see me contributing much in this forum (one of these days I'm feeling like uploading tons of Gb to this forum...) but today I took some random pics from a highway I like from South-Eastern Madrid and I remembered this thread I've been visiting for so long time... It goes by Coslada and San Fernando. I really like this part.


(sorry for the quality, done with a Samsung mobile phone, next time I'll take them with the Aino. And the pics are resized).





The beast

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Last edited by AdamChobits; May 23rd, 2010 at 12:49 AM.
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Old May 23rd, 2010, 04:06 PM   #1676
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Quote:
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khm, not really. those with blue sign in Italy are just expressways, mostly without motorway standards. and green are mostly tolled (only exceptions an A3 are not tolled)
Fact is that those untolled sections of the A3 and other Italian motorways are just as well called autostrada. So Italy would not be a nation that uses different names for its tolled and untolled motorways.

In Spain, too, I've got a feeling that autovias are a different class of roads than autopistas are. That's why you won't find a normal motorway sign when you enter an autovia, but a different sign. It's just that the differences in layout between a Spanish autovia and autopista have become very small over time.
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Old May 23rd, 2010, 04:48 PM   #1677
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The six main Autovías (the ones that tourists are most likely to drive) are usually substandard compared to the newer ones. In fact, the substandard Autovías are maybe not more than 10 - 15% of the entire Autovía network.
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Old May 23rd, 2010, 05:18 PM   #1678
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In fact some Autopistas (the older ones) are a bit worse than some Autovías (the newer ones).

Example:

The AP-68, built in the '70s. Check the length of the exit lane:


vs. the A-12, built in the 2000s



BTW fortunately the modernization plan for the first-generation Autovías (the radial ones) will not be stopped because it's a concession and it's not paid by the government.
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Old May 23rd, 2010, 05:28 PM   #1679
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And most of the roads being built are paid by the autonomous regions so probably not all of them are going to be slowed down....

The worst part is for the AVE, I think that most of the network is being built by the "Ministerio de Fomento".
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Old May 23rd, 2010, 07:10 PM   #1680
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which autopistas have closed system of tolling?
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