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Old May 23rd, 2010, 07:29 PM   #1681
Cicerón
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Here you have: http://www.aseta.es/index_i.htm
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Old May 24th, 2010, 01:21 AM   #1682
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cicerón View Post
Let me point out that the toll network on that link is correct, but the free motorway network that appears there is quite outdated...
Some examples of missing free motorways: Logroño-Pamplona, Manresa-Berga, Maçanet-Platja d'aro, Salamanca-Fuentes de Oñoro (Portugal border), Avila-Salamanca, Valencia-Zaragoza etc etc. I think that's the network around 2002.
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Old May 24th, 2010, 02:14 PM   #1683
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Originally Posted by MrAkumana View Post
Let me point out that the toll network on that link is correct, but the free motorway network that appears there is quite outdated...
Some examples of missing free motorways: Logroño-Pamplona, Manresa-Berga, Maçanet-Platja d'aro, Salamanca-Fuentes de Oñoro (Portugal border), Avila-Salamanca, Valencia-Zaragoza etc etc. I think that's the network around 2002.
Yep, also they show Tudela-Soria and Logroño-Burgos as planned tolled motorways, which is incorrect.
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Old May 24th, 2010, 05:12 PM   #1684
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The six main Autovías (the ones that tourists are most likely to drive) are usually substandard compared to the newer ones. In fact, the substandard Autovías are maybe not more than 10 - 15% of the entire Autovía network.
Spanish law leaves room to build autovías as substandard in comparison to autopistas (tighter curves etc.), but in practice autovías have been constructed over the past decade or so along the same lines as autopistas. Only the older autovías are generally substandard. As a matter of fact, the Spanish government changed the law in the late 1980s to allow a quick and easy upgrade for the N-I to N-VI. They took the tighter bends for granted in order to make much-needed quick progress in the Spanish network. And understandably so. So A-1 to A-6 are indeed the places where you see most of the substandard parts.

That leaves one major difference, which is access restrictions. From what I understand from Wikipedia, those of autovías are looser than those of autopistas (nobably on the point of scooters and mopeds). The reason is that many villages are only linked to the outside world over autovías, so this measure prevents isolation. Much the same reason why the UK chooses not to declare many motorway-like routes as formal motorway. They even allow bikes on those A-roads.
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Old May 25th, 2010, 06:39 PM   #1685
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Originally Posted by -Pino- View Post
That leaves one major difference, which is access restrictions. From what I understand from Wikipedia, those of autovías are looser than those of autopistas (nobably on the point of scooters and mopeds). The reason is that many villages are only linked to the outside world over autovías, so this measure prevents isolation. Much the same reason why the UK chooses not to declare many motorway-like routes as formal motorway. They even allow bikes on those A-roads.
There are actually very few "motorway-like routes" in the UK - parts of the A2 and A3 near London and a bit of the A55 in north Wales, and some bridges and tunnels. The only bits that bikes are banned from are the bridges and tunnels and some of the A-roads around London that used to be motorways (e.g. the elevated A40 and the A12/A102 in east London). The majority of our long-distance dual carriageways have two lanes each way, no hard shoulder and no emergency roadside phones. There are some "hidden motorways" but most have no special status.

Our A-roads are just main roads, and they can be anything from a single-track road (as with some in Scotland and Wales) to a dual carriageway with or without graded junctions. The long-distance A-road dual carriageways are often built up gradually - the A3 in the late 1980s, for example, consisted of bits of single and dual carriageway, whereas now the only bit of single carriageway remaining is through Hindhead and even that's being bypassed. The quality often goes from near-motorway quality (e.g. the Esher by-pass on the A3) to very much less than that (the bit in the north Guildford suburbs and then through the hills around Godalming, for example). They often consist of bits of old road and bits of new road (e.g. the A12 from London to Ipswich). There are long stretches that are nowhere near motorway quality, e.g. the A38 in south Devon. Why don't they ban bikes and learner drivers? Because they're just main roads.

Motorways, on the other hand, are dedicated, purpose-built, long-distance fast roads intended for motorists to get past the tractors on the old main roads (or to get military hardware from one end of the country to another, depending on your point of view). Very often they are completely new routes and don't even follow the old A-roads (as with most of the M1, M6 and M25). They are almost never upgraded main roads and don't deprive anyone who can't take the motorway of an existing road, with a few exceptions, such as the A1(M) near Peterborough.
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Old June 6th, 2010, 03:13 PM   #1686
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A-92 through the Tabernas desert. Hard to believe this is actually in Europe, it looks like Arizona or Nevada.

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Old June 6th, 2010, 03:45 PM   #1687
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Yeah, that desert was the location for many Spaghetti Westerns: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaghetti_Western

Here's another video of that region, featuring the A-7 along the coast.



BTW the Southern part of the VA-30 opened yesterday

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pableras85 View Post
Primer día de la ronda en servicio:





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Old June 6th, 2010, 03:53 PM   #1688
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That's a very important 7 kilometers. Now you can bypass most of the city coming from A-62 or CL-602 The next 2 km of VA-30 until the VA-11 will open during fall 2010.

By the way; what's the current status of the "Hiperronda de Málaga"?
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Old June 6th, 2010, 04:32 PM   #1689
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From what I've read in the Spanish forum, it seems that they're working hard in the area near a village called Zapata. The new access to the airport seems to be quite delayed. Anyway it seems that they work on a different stretch every week
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Old June 7th, 2010, 01:05 AM   #1690
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
A-92 through the Tabernas desert. Hard to believe this is actually in Europe, it looks like Arizona or Nevada.
I had exactly the same impression when I went to Southern Spain.
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Old June 8th, 2010, 10:40 AM   #1691
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Reason for Madrid highways

These are expansion plans to accommodate the growth of Madrid city, Please note immigration has grown exponentially in Spain in the last 10 years, from 300.000 to 6 million. Madrid has experienced a 1.5 million population growth in the period.

The network of highways has a second purpose, for political reasons the capital of Spain was set right in the center of the Peninsula in the XVIth century, so there is a 6 million people metropolitan area that is right in the middle of the country and logically a logistics port of call from any company moving merchandise from North to South of the 1000 Km Pensinsula. Spain is scarcely populated in the 'mesetas', the Geograhic central plains connecting NSEW the capital *MADRID# with the densely populated areas in the Vasque Country, Galicia, Catalonia and Andalusia.

The outer rings are devised for vans not to hit any traffic jam while passing through the capital, in those rings a variety of Logistics zones are placed.

Madrid airport is the largest in Spain and connects a plethora of International Flights to Spanish and Portuguese speaking America (remember the Spanish and Portuguese Empires were the same, under the Spanish crown for 100 years, and that Spanish interests in Lisbon, 550 km in a straight line from Madrid justify a Western leaning network of roads to channel merchandise traffic). Multinational companies willing to set in the Iberian Peninsula use Madrid as their base, as it is easy to move with, planes, high speed train networks or highways to any point of the country. And just remember the main reason for the centrality of the old *as opposed to the new" system of highways. Franco placed the main Spanish Army's tank divisions right in the center of Spain, near Madrid, this network of roads facilitates troop mobility to quell any rebellion in any point of the country with maximum speed. So from historical absurdity to logistics centre, the artificial origins of the geographical centrality of the country have derived into a thriving network of mobile companies using Madrid into a logistics hub.
Finally, Spain has had a deliberate policy to set up one of the best highway networks in Europe. There is an uninfomed member in Skyscrapercity that contends that the network was paid with EU subsidies, this British person alleges that because it was set up late and, supposedly, the EU paid for it, our roads are good. Nothing further from the truth, there might be indirect subsidies applied to some roads, but never in Madrid, as it always was far ahead of the income per capita ratios to get EU help. Madrid is the connecting hub between Spanish and Portuguese speaking countries in North, Central and South America, Portugal and the EU. The incredible rates of growth have helped Spain reach income percapita levels similar to those in France and Germany *see CIA factbook", and it has been the heavy taxation and the political will the driving force behind them. Something that the British observer does not know is that those subsidies from the EU used by regions in Spain poorer than Madrid, were heavily used to build the British network of roads, as well as for a variety of social welfare purposes, in the 80s in the UK.
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Old June 12th, 2010, 01:58 PM   #1692
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Hello everyone,

Anyone have info about the A27 between Tarragona and Montblanc ... I saw it is present on google maps ...

Is it expected that it connects to the AP-2 Montblanc or it doubles the N-240 to Lleida, in this case it will make the third highway that connects the Mediterranean coast Lleida (A2 and AP-2 fulfills this function very well) in the province of Barcelona and Tarragona.

By cons, if it is planned to connect to AP2 Montblanc, there is the C-14 between Reus and Alcover who will perform this function very well if it was extended to the AP-2. I do not see the need to build two highways parallel (C-14 and A27) for the same features ... the worst thing would be to extend the A27 to Lleida, three parallel highways that will connect the coast Barcelona Tarragona to Lleida (A2, AP2 and A27)

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Old June 12th, 2010, 03:57 PM   #1693
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I doubt if an A-27 all the way to Lleida is really necessary, but a shortcut between AP-2 and Tarragona is not a bad idea. It's quite a detour via El Vendrell.
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Old June 12th, 2010, 04:30 PM   #1694
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
but a shortcut between AP-2 and Tarragona is not a bad idea. It's quite a detour via El Vendrell.
But there is the C14 between Reus and Alcover...it would suffice to extend until AP2 (Montblanc)

With the A27, it will be two parallel highways that go to the same place...

I dont think it's crisis in Spain
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Old June 12th, 2010, 04:58 PM   #1695
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Hmm, at first I thought C-14 and A-27 were one and the same route. But now I checked it on Google Earth, they are two freeways running parallel to each other. That's a bit over the top, I'm sure one north-south freeway between Tarragona and Montblanc would do just as well...
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Old June 14th, 2010, 07:48 PM   #1696
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geogregor View Post
I had exactly the same impression when I went to Southern Spain.
Yeah, a lot of people have that impression, but in Spain it's quite a typical thing, not only there.
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Old June 15th, 2010, 08:31 PM   #1697
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Unusual signalization on the new A-75 (Verín / Chaves-Portugal):



The exit 22 (Vila Verde da Raia) on portuguese A24 is signed in a spanish style.



Source [more photos]: urbanity.es
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Old June 15th, 2010, 10:19 PM   #1698
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Quote:
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And if someone who has nothing better to do wants to explain the Spanish route-numbering system, including color-coding (on the appropriate thread, of course)....(I understand the N103.5 is in Portugal.)
Here we are

Firstly, a bit of history. Since 1939, when the Plan General de Carreteras was launched, Spain has a "radial" road system with six main roads that go from the Puerta del Sol in Madrid (in the centre of the Iberian peninsula) to the French border in Irún, the French border in La Jonquera, Valencia, Cádiz, the Portuguese border in Badajoz and Corunna.

image hosted on flickr

Source

The prefix used was N (for nacional -national-). Those six main routes had Roman numbers form I to VI:

N-I: Madrid-Burgos-Vitoria-San Sebastián-Irún-France
N-II: Madrid-Guadalajara-Zaragoza-Lleida-Barcelona-Girona-La Jonquera-France
N-III: Madrid-Valencia
N-IV: Madrid-Córdoba-Seville-Cádiz
N-V: Madrid-Badajoz-Portugal
N-VI: Madrid-Corunna

The rest of national roads had three numbers:

-The first one depends on which of the six areas they start in.
-The second one depends on how far from Madrid they start in (every 100 km the number increases).
-The third one depends on their "position": It is an odd number if they were "radial", or an even number if they are "transverse".

Therefore, the N-120 starts in the area I (between N-I and N-II), between 200 and 300 km far from Madrid and it's "transverse". The N-655 starts in the area VI (between N-VI and N-I), between 500 and 600 km far from Madrid and it's "radial".



List of national roads: http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_de_...ras_del_Estado

The same system was used with the regional roads, with the only difference that their prefix was a C (and their quality was inferior obviously). In the Balearic Islands they started with C-7XX, in the Canary Islands with C-8XX.

List of regional roads (until 1978): http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anexo:C...de_Espa%C3%B1a


But since 1978 Spain is divided in Autonomous Communities that can manage and built their own roads. Therefore the regional roads were transferred to them, as well as some national roads, and the Autonomous Communities changed the prefix C- for their own prefixes, and in some cases they changed the number too. For example the old C-113 is now called LR-113 in La Rioja, the old C-601 is now called M-601 in Madrid and CL-601 in Castile and Leon.

The national roads are still managed by the Central Government, except in the Basque Country and Navarre because they have a special status within Spain (except the AP-68 that is still managed by the Central Government even in the Basque Country and Navarre).

The national roads and most of the highways are, as I said before, managed by the Central Government, and they form the so-called Red de Carreteras del Estado (RCE). These roads and highways are called itinerarios de interés general ("itineraries of general interest"), which have the following characteristics:

-They are a part of an international route.
-They are access roads to the main ports, airports or border crossings.
-They connect the main cities through different Autonomous Communities.

In this network there are five different prefixes:

N- for national roads, white numbers over a red background: N-I, N-232...
A- for toll-free motorways, white numbers over a blue background: A-1, A-75... The A stands for Autovía or Autopista.
AP- for tolled motorways, white numbers over a blue background: AP-1, AP-68... AP stands for Autopista de Peaje.
R- white numbers over a blue background, for the radial tolled highways near Madrid: R-2, R-3... R stands for Radial.
-A city prefix plus two digits for ring roads or acess highways, using the provincial codes: M for Madrid (M-40), B for Barcelona (B-21). Normally those codes used for ring roads end in 0.


In every Autonomous Community (and we have 17 plus 2 autonomous cities!) there is a different law about how the roads are called, mantained, built, etc Anyway, there are different colors depending on the importance of the road:

Orange background for first-level roads.
Green background for second-level roads.
Yellow background for third-level roads.

In some Autonomous Communities they only use a prefix for all roads (for example Comunidad Valenciana (CV), La Rioja (LR) etc) some other they use both the prefix of the Autonomous Community (for main roads) and the province code (for minor roads, for example Catalonia or Castile and Leon), some other only use the province codes (for example Galicia or the Basque Country). AND, in the two Spanish archipelagos, they use a different code for every island (TF for Tenerife, Ma for Majorca, FV for Fuerteventura...).


It's a mess, I know. Anyway, except maybe in Madrid, nobody in Spain uses these codes. For example, in Logroño we say la autopista (AP-68), la circunvalación (LO-20) or la carretera de Soria (N-111). Even in formal brochures of factories or tourist atractions they say "carretera de X, km 5,5" (road to X, km 5.5) or "carretera de X a Y, km 5,5" (road from X to Y, km 5.5). The only exception is when they are located in a national or main road.


To sum up, there are:

-Tolled motorways, "AP-", with white letters over blue background. Example: AP-68

-"Radial" tolled motorways near Madrid, "R-", with white letters over blue background. Example: R-5

-Toll-free motorways, with white letters over blue background. Example: A-67

-Ring roads or access highways, with white letters over blue background. Example: LO-20 (ring road) or BU-11 (access highway)

-National roads, "N-", with white letters over red background. Example: N-111

-First-level regional roads, with black letters over orange background. Example: LR-113

-Second-level regional roads, with white letters over green background. Example: LR-256

-Third-level regional roads, with black letters over yellow background. Example:

Last edited by Cicerón; June 15th, 2010 at 10:25 PM.
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Old June 15th, 2010, 10:55 PM   #1699
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Gosh! Good job. Much more comprehensible than Wikipedia in either Spanish or English. Muchas gracias. But you're right, it's a mess. And I'm surprised that green can be used for any domestic designation, since it's also used for E-roads. Must be fun in Extremadura, distinguishing between European and second-level Community roads.
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Old June 15th, 2010, 11:21 PM   #1700
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WOW I never thought the labeling was so complicated! Awesome job in explaining it! I think I got it now
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