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Old June 16th, 2010, 02:37 PM   #1701
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You're welcome
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Old June 16th, 2010, 10:12 PM   #1702
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I also noticed it's a complicated system in Spain when I used the Spanish roads.

But its one thing I don't understand in Spain. Why do they have the unique Spanish sign for Autovia? Why not a normal motorway symbol? And why not expressway symbol for the Autovias that are not qualified to be motorway? In rest of Europe we have 2 symbols, motorway and expressway, but in Spain you have the third symbol, the Autovia Symbol. I think this is quite strange. People from other European countries don't understand the Autovia symbol when they are driving at the Spanish roads.
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Old June 18th, 2010, 01:42 AM   #1703
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I agree with you. That concept (Autovía) was created in the 80's to name a substandard motorway (radial highways) because the Spanish goverment didn't have money enough to build a new motorway so they decided to just build another carriageway next to the old national road for most of the route. The problem is that all free motorways built since then have been labelled as Autovías. Anyway those substandard Autovías are currently being refurbished.
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Old June 18th, 2010, 01:53 PM   #1704
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Hello everyone,

I read on some forums dedicated Spanish (I do not understand Spanish very well) that the government had plans to convert some national road to autovia :

- The N-II between Fraga and Alfajarin: Section overloaded by trucks wishing to avoid the toll of the AP-2 (very accident-prone road ... I do not know if it is called like this: o)

- The N-232 between Logrono and Castejon: Section overloaded trucks who want to avoid the toll of the AP-68 (very accident-prone road ...)

especially

The N-IV between Dos Hermanas and in Jerez de la Frontera: For relieve traffic on the AP-4 is charged during the summertime.

I do not understand why the governement would buy just the tolls on consessionaire (Aumar, Aseta...). I think it would be cheaper than build a new highway alongside an existing toll highway which moreover do not support an excessive traffic to justify the doubling of the axis ... and most importantly I think the construction of such lanes drain the traffic is already low (AP-68 and AP-2) on toll roads like the highways that we view their traffic down significantly since the introduction of parallel expressways (I'm talk about the AP-7 / A-7 in the Community of Valencia)
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Old June 18th, 2010, 04:27 PM   #1705
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This is what the Ministro de Fomento said a few days ago:

Quote:
Se trata del desdoblamiento de la N-232 y de la N-II, que ayer colocó el ministro de Fomento, José Blanco, en la posible lista de proyectos que van a sufrir retrasos con el plan de ajuste prometido en materia de infraestructuras. Lo hizo en su visita a Santander al asegurar que las autovías pendientes de construir que tengan próxima una autopista de peaje se retrasarán.
So basically, all the projected Autovías that have a tolled Autopista next to them won't be built, at least in the next years.

More info: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...1136125&page=3
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Old June 18th, 2010, 08:06 PM   #1706
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cicerón View Post
-Third-level regional roads, with black letters over yellow background. Example:
BV-5031 between Mataró and Arenys de Munt!
Called the Cornellà to Fogars de Tordera road in the former town and in Sant Vicenç de Montalt, although today it doesn't run from Cornellà de Llobregat to Fogars de la Selva.
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Old June 22nd, 2010, 04:06 PM   #1707
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The new AP-8 in Donostia/San Sebastián. It will be opened (for cars) the next Friday.













Source: http://www.diariovasco.com/multimedi...topista-0.html





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Old June 22nd, 2010, 04:32 PM   #1708
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It's going to open all at once, the new bypass?
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Old June 22nd, 2010, 04:48 PM   #1709
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As far as I know, yes. Also, the Bilbao Bypass (called Supersur) will be finished by the spring of 2011: http://www.elcorreo.com/vizcaya/v/20...-20100610.html
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Old June 22nd, 2010, 05:22 PM   #1710
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cicerón View Post
The new AP-8 in Donostia/San Sebastián. It will be opened (for cars) the next Friday.




Whoa! Five route numbers! Thought that sort of thing wasn't allowed in Europe!
Also, I notice that Bayonne (France) becomes "Baiona," but Bordeaux doesn't become "Burdeos" (that is the Spanish, isn't it?). Inconsistency? No one says "Burdeos" any more? Actually following Basque usage, not that I have any idea what that would be?
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Old June 22nd, 2010, 05:27 PM   #1711
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
Whoa! Five route numbers! Thought that sort of thing wasn't allowed in Europe!
Hehe, that's nothing. I believe there are signs with 7 or 8 numbers in Spain and Hungary.
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Old June 22nd, 2010, 05:45 PM   #1712
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In Saragossa there was a sign with 8 route numbers:

This was before Z-40 was signed. Now looks this.
------------------------
@Ciceron: Resized.
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Last edited by CNGL; June 22nd, 2010 at 06:06 PM.
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Old June 22nd, 2010, 05:46 PM   #1713
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
Whoa! Five route numbers! Thought that sort of thing wasn't allowed in Europe!
Also, I notice that Bayonne (France) becomes "Baiona," but Bordeaux doesn't become "Burdeos" (that is the Spanish, isn't it?). Inconsistency? No one says "Burdeos" any more? Actually following Basque usage, not that I have any idea what that would be?
It seems that they used Basque for the [French] Basque Country (Baiona is Basque, Bayona Spanish and Bayonne French) and French for Bordeaux (Bordele in Basque and Burdeos -still used- in Spanish).

Edit: Please CNGL! Resize that picture! Use this link instead:

[IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/44/A-2_Autovia_del_Nordeste_en_Zaragoza.jpg/800px-A-2_Autovia_del_Nordeste_en_Zaragoza.jpg[/IMG]
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Old June 22nd, 2010, 06:05 PM   #1714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
Also, I notice that Bayonne (France) becomes "Baiona," but Bordeaux doesn't become "Burdeos" (that is the Spanish, isn't it?). Inconsistency? No one says "Burdeos" any more? Actually following Basque usage, not that I have any idea what that would be?
I think Baiona is Basque, as Bayonne is in the French part of the Basque Country. Bordeaux is not and is thus signed in French
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Old June 22nd, 2010, 06:43 PM   #1715
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In Saragossa
Does anybody ever use "Saragossa"? I never knew it otherwise than Zaragoza. (which also sounds cooler to me ) Even the English wikipedia redirects to Zaragoza, the whole article only says Saragossa two times.
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Old June 22nd, 2010, 07:23 PM   #1716
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In Google Street View, when you put the pegman in Zaragoza, after the street it says the municipality. And it says "Saragossa", which is also the Zaragoza's name in German, Polish and Polish (eeer, Catalan )

And the demonym of the Zaragoza's people is cheposo (I'm from Huesca and we are to kill with Zaragoza)
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Old June 22nd, 2010, 08:14 PM   #1717
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Does anybody ever use "Saragossa"? I never knew it otherwise than Zaragoza. (which also sounds cooler to me ) Even the English wikipedia redirects to Zaragoza, the whole article only says Saragossa two times.
I'd lean toward "Zaragoza." I'm not sure it comes up often enough in English for "Saragossa" to remain in use. Like during the 2006 Winter Olympics, when American media kept referring to "Torino." It's always been "Turin" in English, but no one seemed to know that. I'd still say "Turin."
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Old June 22nd, 2010, 09:29 PM   #1718
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I don't really see the use of slightly altered exonyms anyway. In the Netherlands we say Berlijn, Londen and Parijs. It's not like Berlin, London and Paris are not understood by the Dutch.

I'm thinking, but I don't think the Dutch have exonyms for Spanish cities.

Last edited by ChrisZwolle; June 22nd, 2010 at 10:00 PM.
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Old June 22nd, 2010, 09:56 PM   #1719
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I don't really see the use of slightly altered exonyms anyway. In the Netherlands we say Berlijn, Londen and Parijs. It's not light Berlin, London and Paris are not understood by the Dutch.

I'm thinking, but I don't think the Dutch have exonyms for Spanish cities.
We don't, no. At best we leave out the funky characters (Córdoba becomes Cordoba). We do, of course, have exonyms for the regions (Galicia -> Galicië).
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Old June 22nd, 2010, 10:00 PM   #1720
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I don't really see the use of slightly altered exonyms anyway. In the Netherlands we say Berlijn, Londen and Parijs. It's not light Berlin, London and Paris are not understood by the Dutch.

I'm thinking, but I don't think the Dutch have exonyms for Spanish cities.
Well, language just works out that way. The "ij" in "Berlijn" and "Parijs" were probably originally double (long) I's, and mutated to "ij" at the same time every other word in the language with a double I did so. (Have I mentioned I studied linguistics?) French, German, English, etc., names for Italian cities are often closer to the Latin than the modern Italian names are (example, Florentia = Florence/Florenz vs. Firenze....) So it's not as if the Dutch were conscious of changing the French and German names. An important city that comes up often enough is going to have different versions in different languages, and people yelling "no one says Cologne any more" is not going to change that. ;-)

It would appear there's a Dutch way of spelling Santiago de Compostela:

http://taaladvies.net/taal/aardrijks..._namen/land/ES
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