Seattle: The Martin - Page 2

CrazyAboutCities · March 21st, 2007, 07:04 AM

No, I don't think you really understand what people have been though. I don't want to argue with you anymore. I am done with you.

mhays · March 21st, 2007, 07:22 AM

Of course I don't. Each person has their own experiences and nothing more, including you. That's not the point. For anyone still reading here's what I think:

ADA and other laws take care of all the really crucial stuff -- non-discrimination, access to transit, access to buildings, etc. At some point, the consensus was that ADA was the right way to go. Plenty of other ideas were out there. They reached a balance.

Since they handled the critical stuff, what's left is two categories: 1. critical stuff that's not handled well enough yet, which I think shold be addressed, and 2. stuff that isn't critical. Captions on movies isn't critical.

I don't want new regulations to handle entertainment, aside from access to decent seats. No distractions in movies, or live performances, etc.

CrazyAboutCities · March 21st, 2007, 07:29 AM

I'm going to propose it anyway whether you like it or not. It is not fair to leave people out at the movies if they can't understand movies. Deaf people have the right to go to movies when they wants to see it not waiting for specific times or until dvd releases. It is not fair for Deaf people. I think everyone has the right to do anything they want to as long as it is in public area. If you don't want to watch any movie with open caption then just don't go to the movies or learn how to live with it.

Enough of it and get back to the subject about The Martin, please.

mhays · March 21st, 2007, 07:39 AM

Of course you should propose what you think. Personally I think my original solution (posted early in this thread) would be cheaper, easier to implement, and less disruptive for others, and therefore it would have a better chance of implementation.

You'd simply wear eyeglasses that show the image of the caption in front of you. The glasses would receive wireless signals and be handed out at the ticket booth. They'd probably weigh as much as normal glasses. They'd be shaped like goggles so they could fit over regular glasses.

Seasun · March 21st, 2007, 07:40 AM

I think we need to legislate that all live stage performances have live narration of what's happening so that people with limited or no sight are accommodated - nevermind that it might be really hard to hear two sound tracks at once. No, really - I think there are good compromises - Crazy, have you tried the Cinerama's Rear Window Captioning? http://www.cinerama.com/theatre2_ada.html If so, is it any good?

And for anyone who hasn't seen The Lives of Others (english captions, German audio) it's playing at the Harvard Exit and I recommend it! Enjoy the captions.

mhays · March 21st, 2007, 07:51 AM

I wouldn't mandate any of these solutions, including mine. The big movie studios could handle it by tacking a penny (whatever) on every ticket, but small local groups don't need more burdens. In fact it would be nearly impossible to mandate for stage plays, because small plays can be literally one person, or even impromptu. Also, who wants to regulate art. On the other hand, I'm sure there could be volunteers for organizations that wanted to participate.

CrazyAboutCities · March 21st, 2007, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seasun

I think we need to legislate that all live stage performances have live narration of what's happening so that people with limited or no sight are accommodated - nevermind that it might be really hard to hear two sound tracks at once. No, really - I think there are good compromises - Crazy, have you tried the Cinerama's Rear Window Captioning? http://www.cinerama.com/theatre2_ada.html If so, is it any good?

And for anyone who hasn't seen The Lives of Others (english captions, German audio) it's playing at the Harvard Exit and I recommend it! Enjoy the captions.

Yes I have tried that rear window... It is not good because it always get messed up when people get off the seat and go to the restroom or get anything to eat or drink. Also biggest con about it... You have to find out which movie will have rear window and what time. Sometime it doesn't always offer popular movies like Zodiac or Meet The Focker or Eragon or whatever you name it. One thing I hate most about rear window... It is very dirty and the staff almost never clean it so I had to clean it on my own so I can read it better. Sometime I am feeling like I'm missing out the movies because I was too focus on rear window than watching movies. I prefer it to be on the screen so I won't miss anything. One thing I will not complian if ANY movie theatre at ANY location from big to small town have rear window at any time and any movies to provide more choices for the Deaf. It would be better than being limited to the movies.

CrazyAboutCities · March 21st, 2007, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhays

Of course you should propose what you think. Personally I think my original solution (posted early in this thread) would be cheaper, easier to implement, and less disruptive for others, and therefore it would have a better chance of implementation.

You'd simply wear eyeglasses that show the image of the caption in front of you. The glasses would receive wireless signals and be handed out at the ticket booth. They'd probably weigh as much as normal glasses. They'd be shaped like goggles so they could fit over regular glasses.

Will you want to wear that to watch the movies? I doubt it. I don't think ANY deaf people including me would want to wear that to watch any movies. I am 100% sure that any Deaf person would prefer to have open caption on the screen period. By the way, open caption on the screen are way cheaper than googles.

mhays · March 21st, 2007, 09:44 PM

People watch 3D movies that way, others use VR with much larger goggles, etc. This would be like wearing regular glasses. Sounds fine to me.

Why do you speak in certainties so often? You don't know what the costs of each option are any better than I do (admittedly I know nothing). I also guess that less than 100% of deaf people would agree on which technology they prefer. You can't group everyone together just because they share a disability -- they're people.

sequoias · March 21st, 2007, 11:22 PM

Crazyaboutcities, don't push it. He's not worth your time.

Seattle FTW · March 21st, 2007, 11:54 PM

mhays is the same person that doesn't like the audible warnings on crossing lights because they are "annoying"

just drop it crazy, you're not going to convince him

mhays · March 22nd, 2007, 12:52 AM

Partly true. I can be convinced, but only when alternatives don't exist.

In the case of audible warnings, what I'm mainly against is the volume level, which reaches absurd levels in some places like Bellevue Transit Center. Also the pitch could be adjusted -- a low-mid pitch would be less disruptive to people living next door. I suppose I'm a heretic, but I think people should be able to sleep in their homes. I advocate a combination of vibrating pads and low-volume, low-pitch audible signals. That would actually be a big improvement vs. 3rd & Mercer, which has the ding but gives no directional cues.

Most people don't like arguing disability issues because some people take it as good vs. evil. So in public they say nothing but "yes". But, behind closed doors, decisions are made that take into account such things as quality of life for the other 98%, and cost, and try to strike a balance. In my opinion this is a necessary and helpful give and take. Crossings are a necessity and the solutions should ensure safety first. But movies and plays aren't a necessity and I'd avoid mandates. Good thing I'm used to being considered evil (by drivers).

data · March 22nd, 2007, 01:43 AM

wow I stumbled into the "martin/alternative dissabilities theatre enhancements plus various cross-walk and other related non-skyscraper-development stuff" thread.

In truth
Im actually totally enthralled
I love this forum

I am 6 foot four so while we are at it can we make the theatre seats bigger, and I hate dr. pepper so can they not serve that at the snack bar, im just saying...

horatio_the_hermit · March 22nd, 2007, 03:50 AM

hahahahaaa. touche.

Seasun · March 22nd, 2007, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhays

Good thing I'm used to being considered evil (by drivers).

I apologize a bit for perpetuating the everything-but-Martin discussion but I thought of mhays' relations with drivers a few days ago - I was walking eastbound on Madison before dawn at the SE corner of the old federal courthouse. I was crossing 6th Ave with the ped WALK light and one truck made a right turn in front of me (no problem) but the next driver turning right didn't pause to check for peds and she stopped suddenly to avoid hitting me. So the driver behind her (also clueless) bumped into her and they had to pull over and check things out. No one was hurt and I didn't think I could help anything so I paused for a half second and kept on walking. I was sorry they bumped but part of me was thinking serves you damn right for not driving carefully!

seapug · March 22nd, 2007, 08:23 AM

haha i live on 3rd and olympic so ocasionally i can hear that ding from my apartment, never keeps me up though

CrazyAboutCities · March 22nd, 2007, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seattle FTW

mhays is the same person that doesn't like the audible warnings on crossing lights because they are "annoying"

just drop it crazy, you're not going to convince him

I figured.

mhays · March 22nd, 2007, 08:42 AM

A block away and you can hear it? Actually I'm not surprised given how loud it is. But the real problem is that several other apartment buildings are closer. I wonder how the residents aren't insane.

Count me as the type that can't ignore sounds well. I had someone from IT turn off the beeping sound on the photocopier that's 30 feet from my desk because a couple of us were going nuts. A few of us actively hunt coworkers' nextels when they go into "ring every 30 seconds" mode. I can close my eyes for hours on an airplane without falling asleep. And let's not even talk about barking dogs.

seapug · March 22nd, 2007, 09:03 AM

i'm the complete opposite i sleep through everything. i have 3 alarm clocks to wake me up all going off 2 minutes apart in different parts of my apartment. when i lived on 5th and washington i could sleep through all the sirens and the clubbers fighting out my window. there were several nasty fights out my window that i saw when i was awake too

***Bond James Bond*** · September 30th, 2011, 07:47 AM

Arise thread, arise!

Last posted in March 2007 - 4-1/2 years ago.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm..._vulcan30.html

March 22nd, 2007, 03:50 AM	#34
horatio_the_hermit Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: San Francisco Posts: 215 Likes (Received): 1	hahahahaaa. touche. __________________ We are the trash of Factoria. Our colors clash in Factoria. Grow a moustache in Factoria. We all get smashed in Factoria.

March 22nd, 2007, 08:23 AM	#36
seapug Registered User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: seattle Posts: 532 Likes (Received): 34	.... haha i live on 3rd and olympic so ocasionally i can hear that ding from my apartment, never keeps me up though

March 22nd, 2007, 09:03 AM	#39
seapug Registered User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: seattle Posts: 532 Likes (Received): 34	.... i'm the complete opposite i sleep through everything. i have 3 alarm clocks to wake me up all going off 2 minutes apart in different parts of my apartment. when i lived on 5th and washington i could sleep through all the sirens and the clubbers fighting out my window. there were several nasty fights out my window that i saw when i was awake too

September 30th, 2011, 07:47 AM	#40
*Bond James Bond* Licence to kill. Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Apple Maggot Quarantine Area Posts: 6,996	Arise thread, arise! Last posted in March 2007 - 4-1/2 years ago. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm..._vulcan30.html __________________ Please DO NOT "like" any of my posts or request "friend" status. I don't care if you like me, or my posts. Thank you. - If you do either of these more than once you will be put on my ignore list.

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March 21st, 2007, 07:04 AM	#21
CrazyAboutCities Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Seattle, Washington Posts: 8,329 Likes (Received): 15	No, I don't think you really understand what people have been though. I don't want to argue with you anymore. I am done with you.

March 21st, 2007, 07:22 AM	#22
mhays Journeyman Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 8,377 Likes (Received): 119	Of course I don't. Each person has their own experiences and nothing more, including you. That's not the point. For anyone still reading here's what I think: ADA and other laws take care of all the really crucial stuff -- non-discrimination, access to transit, access to buildings, etc. At some point, the consensus was that ADA was the right way to go. Plenty of other ideas were out there. They reached a balance. Since they handled the critical stuff, what's left is two categories: 1. critical stuff that's not handled well enough yet, which I think shold be addressed, and 2. stuff that isn't critical. Captions on movies isn't critical. I don't want new regulations to handle entertainment, aside from access to decent seats. No distractions in movies, or live performances, etc.

March 21st, 2007, 07:29 AM	#23
CrazyAboutCities Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Seattle, Washington Posts: 8,329 Likes (Received): 15	I'm going to propose it anyway whether you like it or not. It is not fair to leave people out at the movies if they can't understand movies. Deaf people have the right to go to movies when they wants to see it not waiting for specific times or until dvd releases. It is not fair for Deaf people. I think everyone has the right to do anything they want to as long as it is in public area. If you don't want to watch any movie with open caption then just don't go to the movies or learn how to live with it. Enough of it and get back to the subject about The Martin, please.

March 21st, 2007, 07:39 AM	#24
mhays Journeyman Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 8,377 Likes (Received): 119	Of course you should propose what you think. Personally I think my original solution (posted early in this thread) would be cheaper, easier to implement, and less disruptive for others, and therefore it would have a better chance of implementation. You'd simply wear eyeglasses that show the image of the caption in front of you. The glasses would receive wireless signals and be handed out at the ticket booth. They'd probably weigh as much as normal glasses. They'd be shaped like goggles so they could fit over regular glasses.

March 21st, 2007, 07:40 AM	#25
Seasun Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Seattle Posts: 2,558 Likes (Received): 43	I think we need to legislate that all live stage performances have live narration of what's happening so that people with limited or no sight are accommodated - nevermind that it might be really hard to hear two sound tracks at once. No, really - I think there are good compromises - Crazy, have you tried the Cinerama's Rear Window Captioning? http://www.cinerama.com/theatre2_ada.html If so, is it any good? And for anyone who hasn't seen The Lives of Others (english captions, German audio) it's playing at the Harvard Exit and I recommend it! Enjoy the captions.

March 21st, 2007, 07:51 AM	#26
mhays Journeyman Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 8,377 Likes (Received): 119	I wouldn't mandate any of these solutions, including mine. The big movie studios could handle it by tacking a penny (whatever) on every ticket, but small local groups don't need more burdens. In fact it would be nearly impossible to mandate for stage plays, because small plays can be literally one person, or even impromptu. Also, who wants to regulate art. On the other hand, I'm sure there could be volunteers for organizations that wanted to participate.

March 21st, 2007, 09:44 PM	#29
mhays Journeyman Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 8,377 Likes (Received): 119	People watch 3D movies that way, others use VR with much larger goggles, etc. This would be like wearing regular glasses. Sounds fine to me. Why do you speak in certainties so often? You don't know what the costs of each option are any better than I do (admittedly I know nothing). I also guess that less than 100% of deaf people would agree on which technology they prefer. You can't group everyone together just because they share a disability -- they're people.

March 21st, 2007, 11:22 PM	#30
sequoias Registered User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Midwest US Posts: 1,601 Likes (Received): 0	Crazyaboutcities, don't push it. He's not worth your time.

March 21st, 2007, 11:54 PM	#31
Seattle FTW Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 476 Likes (Received): 0	mhays is the same person that doesn't like the audible warnings on crossing lights because they are "annoying" just drop it crazy, you're not going to convince him

March 22nd, 2007, 12:52 AM	#32
mhays Journeyman Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 8,377 Likes (Received): 119	Partly true. I can be convinced, but only when alternatives don't exist. In the case of audible warnings, what I'm mainly against is the volume level, which reaches absurd levels in some places like Bellevue Transit Center. Also the pitch could be adjusted -- a low-mid pitch would be less disruptive to people living next door. I suppose I'm a heretic, but I think people should be able to sleep in their homes. I advocate a combination of vibrating pads and low-volume, low-pitch audible signals. That would actually be a big improvement vs. 3rd & Mercer, which has the ding but gives no directional cues. Most people don't like arguing disability issues because some people take it as good vs. evil. So in public they say nothing but "yes". But, behind closed doors, decisions are made that take into account such things as quality of life for the other 98%, and cost, and try to strike a balance. In my opinion this is a necessary and helpful give and take. Crossings are a necessity and the solutions should ensure safety first. But movies and plays aren't a necessity and I'd avoid mandates. Good thing I'm used to being considered evil (by drivers).

March 22nd, 2007, 01:43 AM	#33
data Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 104 Likes (Received): 0	wow I stumbled into the "martin/alternative dissabilities theatre enhancements plus various cross-walk and other related non-skyscraper-development stuff" thread. In truth Im actually totally enthralled I love this forum I am 6 foot four so while we are at it can we make the theatre seats bigger, and I hate dr. pepper so can they not serve that at the snack bar, im just saying...

March 22nd, 2007, 08:42 AM	#38
mhays Journeyman Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 8,377 Likes (Received): 119	A block away and you can hear it? Actually I'm not surprised given how loud it is. But the real problem is that several other apartment buildings are closer. I wonder how the residents aren't insane. Count me as the type that can't ignore sounds well. I had someone from IT turn off the beeping sound on the photocopier that's 30 feet from my desk because a couple of us were going nuts. A few of us actively hunt coworkers' nextels when they go into "ring every 30 seconds" mode. I can close my eyes for hours on an airplane without falling asleep. And let's not even talk about barking dogs.