TAMPA | TWELVE | 47 stories | 562 feet | 260 condos | 165 hotel rooms | DEAD - Page 14

JBrisco · July 13th, 2009, 06:07 PM

I don't think TWELVE is that bad of a design. It'd make a nice skyline addition with its crown being so interesting.

FloridaFuture · July 13th, 2009, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jasonhouse

Actually, it's our job as voters to tell them something sucks. Then, it is up to them to listen and see if we're right, and act accordingly.

Yeah, but not on a weekly basis at every council meeting. We tell them what we want by voting in the the people that are going to do what we want. JohnF is talking about going to coucil meetings whenever projects are proposed, which is fine, but most people don't have the time, which is why we vote in leaders, and make that their job.

DShenise · July 13th, 2009, 06:55 PM

The problem with showing up at meetings either launch parties or council meetings is that the die is cast by that point. The developer will have spent something on the order of at least $150k in architectural fees by this point. Sure you can generally get exterior trim "x" changed, but the overall form of the building is going to be the same. Developers won't just start screwing with the overall design because of public or elected official imput. Look at the lots next to 345 Bayshore across from TGH. Council went round and round with them. The only thing that was ever accomplished was changing the number of floors. The overall design and massing stayed the same.

In the end I wouldn't be surprised to see something much shorter than what anyone would want and I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't end up being something public ala county center.

Tampa on the move. · May 12th, 2010, 11:11 PM

Okay people at Novarre Group. Tampa may need more hotel space lets get this Twelve project and get going possibly..

47 stories with some being hotel and some condo as well.....

Just saying whoever breaks ground first on the next downtown hotel is going to benefit bigtime with this huge event coming to town..

TampaMike · May 12th, 2010, 11:38 PM

Novare Group is ccurently going through bankruptcy, please call back later.

Seriously though, they went through bankruptcy and if some how they found a way out of it and can start building. I don't see them going anywhere. Remember when we had like 4 projects planned from them? Those were the days......

tampasteve · May 13th, 2010, 01:42 PM

If any hotel gets going I would see it on the Fuel lot beside the Embassy suites. IIRC it is already ready for a hotel (zoning, etc.) as it was the W lot at one time.

Steve

Jasonhouse · May 13th, 2010, 03:39 PM

I don't see any big hotel getting built with the Hard Rock expansion coming. In my opinion, maybe a hotel or two on the scale of the Residence Inn or the Westin will be built before the RNC, but that's it.

FLAWDA-FELLA · May 13th, 2010, 06:48 PM

Man, I forgot all about this project. I honestly thought this project had the best potential of going vertical during the boom.

Del Mayberry · February 16th, 2011, 03:51 AM

J Vance,

I didn't know Novare was in trouble. They must still be stuck with Element since the units didn't work out to be sold to individual owners and renting became their only option. I read through some old posts about Skypoint and Element when it was still being proposed and supposedly Novare was somewhat known as a "solid" company that didn't operate in debt.

Like many others, I hope Twelve is still on the back burner, but if Novare is having trouble that would make the chances more unlikely. I don't know if they even own that lot on Ashley.

I saw the episode of Tampa City Council back in '06 where Novare presented it. They had a couple poster-sized drawings of the hotel and described each side of the base in detail. Linda Saul Sena was in awe (after she kinda flip-flopped about height). She finally figured out that tall buildings were ok in downtown.

The TTT lot is probably too expensive for Novare to switch to and they would have to redesign the hotel to make it skinnier.

Jasonhouse · February 16th, 2011, 04:16 AM

I was at that meeting, and still remember it.

Oh and btw, you'll love this... Novare bought the TWELVE lot from TECO in 2006 for a cool $7.5mil... And they sold it back to TECO in 2009 for $2.75mil. lol!

HARTride 2012 · February 16th, 2011, 05:24 AM

So what happens to the land now that it back in TECO's hands?

Del Mayberry · February 16th, 2011, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HARTride 2012

So what happens to the land now that it back in TECO's hands?

Another parking lot for a long time.

Casey · February 16th, 2011, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jasonhouse

I was at that meeting, and still remember it.

Oh and btw, you'll love this... Novare bought the TWELVE lot from TECO in 2006 for a cool $7.5mil... And they sold it back to TECO in 2009 for $2.75mil. lol!

Perhaps this is one reason Novare is struggling financially?

Jasonhouse · February 16th, 2011, 03:40 PM

I just want to know when TECO customers get their $4.75mil discount. lol

Del Mayberry · February 16th, 2011, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jasonhouse

I was at that meeting, and still remember it.

Oh and btw, you'll love this... Novare bought the TWELVE lot from TECO in 2006 for a cool $7.5mil... And they sold it back to TECO in 2009 for $2.75mil. lol!

Well that explains it. That was just here in Tampa. I wonder how much they lost in other cities. This would definately make Twelve dead.

Jasonhouse · February 17th, 2011, 01:32 AM

Novare generally used a different investment group for each market, and different groups had a different tolerance for losses and walked away at different times... So, it's hard to say how much was lost and how much of that went back on Novare itself, or was absorbed by the equity partners.

July 13th, 2009, 06:55 PM	#263
DShenise Designer, 1404designs Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Santa Monica Posts: 1,133 Likes (Received): 0	The problem with showing up at meetings either launch parties or council meetings is that the die is cast by that point. The developer will have spent something on the order of at least $150k in architectural fees by this point. Sure you can generally get exterior trim "x" changed, but the overall form of the building is going to be the same. Developers won't just start screwing with the overall design because of public or elected official imput. Look at the lots next to 345 Bayshore across from TGH. Council went round and round with them. The only thing that was ever accomplished was changing the number of floors. The overall design and massing stayed the same. In the end I wouldn't be surprised to see something much shorter than what anyone would want and I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't end up being something public ala county center. __________________ "... holding your breath till you turn blue is not consistent with the judicial temperament" David Frum.

May 12th, 2010, 11:38 PM	#265
TampaMike Moderator Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Tampa, Florida Posts: 6,154 Likes (Received): 7	Novare Group is ccurently going through bankruptcy, please call back later. Seriously though, they went through bankruptcy and if some how they found a way out of it and can start building. I don't see them going anywhere. Remember when we had like 4 projects planned from them? Those were the days...... __________________ Corporations Are People Too - Mitt Romney For the People that dress up like Corporations.

May 13th, 2010, 01:42 PM	#266
tampasteve Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Tampa Posts: 2,369 Likes (Received): 5	If any hotel gets going I would see it on the Fuel lot beside the Embassy suites. IIRC it is already ready for a hotel (zoning, etc.) as it was the W lot at one time. Steve __________________ Homer: Face it, Marge, Catholics rule! We got Boston, South America, the good part of Ireland, and we're makin' serious inroads in Mozambique, baby! "My badger's gonna unleash hell on your ass. Badgertastic!"

February 16th, 2011, 04:16 AM	#270
Jasonhouse Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 12,317 Likes (Received): 8	I was at that meeting, and still remember it. Oh and btw, you'll love this... Novare bought the TWELVE lot from TECO in 2006 for a cool $7.5mil... And they sold it back to TECO in 2009 for $2.75mil. lol! Last edited by Jasonhouse; February 16th, 2011 at 04:22 AM.

February 16th, 2011, 05:24 AM	#271
HARTride 2012 Let's go... Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 10,146 Likes (Received): 34	So what happens to the land now that it back in TECO's hands? __________________ Public Transit As Told By HARTride 2012 - Public Transit told from a unique perspective! - Tampa Bay, New York City, Hampton Roads, Europe \| Follow me on Twitter \| "Like" my page on Facebook

July 13th, 2009, 06:07 PM	#261
JBrisco USF Architecture Student Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Tampa, FLA Posts: 1,525 Likes (Received): 0	I don't think TWELVE is that bad of a design. It'd make a nice skyline addition with its crown being so interesting.

May 12th, 2010, 11:11 PM	#264
Tampa on the move. Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Tampa Posts: 422 Likes (Received): 2	Okay people at Novarre Group. Tampa may need more hotel space lets get this Twelve project and get going possibly.. 47 stories with some being hotel and some condo as well..... Just saying whoever breaks ground first on the next downtown hotel is going to benefit bigtime with this huge event coming to town..

May 13th, 2010, 03:39 PM	#267
Jasonhouse Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 12,317 Likes (Received): 8	I don't see any big hotel getting built with the Hard Rock expansion coming. In my opinion, maybe a hotel or two on the scale of the Residence Inn or the Westin will be built before the RNC, but that's it.

May 13th, 2010, 06:48 PM	#268
FLAWDA-FELLA Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Tampa/Jacksonville Posts: 2,144 Likes (Received): 18	Man, I forgot all about this project. I honestly thought this project had the best potential of going vertical during the boom.

February 16th, 2011, 03:51 AM	#269
Del Mayberry Registered User Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 512 Likes (Received): 0	J Vance, I didn't know Novare was in trouble. They must still be stuck with Element since the units didn't work out to be sold to individual owners and renting became their only option. I read through some old posts about Skypoint and Element when it was still being proposed and supposedly Novare was somewhat known as a "solid" company that didn't operate in debt. Like many others, I hope Twelve is still on the back burner, but if Novare is having trouble that would make the chances more unlikely. I don't know if they even own that lot on Ashley. I saw the episode of Tampa City Council back in '06 where Novare presented it. They had a couple poster-sized drawings of the hotel and described each side of the base in detail. Linda Saul Sena was in awe (after she kinda flip-flopped about height). She finally figured out that tall buildings were ok in downtown. The TTT lot is probably too expensive for Novare to switch to and they would have to redesign the hotel to make it skinnier.

February 16th, 2011, 03:40 PM	#274
Jasonhouse Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 12,317 Likes (Received): 8	I just want to know when TECO customers get their $4.75mil discount. lol

February 17th, 2011, 01:32 AM	#276
Jasonhouse Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 12,317 Likes (Received): 8	Novare generally used a different investment group for each market, and different groups had a different tolerance for losses and walked away at different times... So, it's hard to say how much was lost and how much of that went back on Novare itself, or was absorbed by the equity partners.

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