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Old October 26th, 2008, 01:34 PM   #381
Skyline.Fan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HD View Post

ok, 230m would have been great, but 175m that were not in the masterplan, is fantastic.
from day to day the skyline of Frankfurt gets more ridiculous and ugly. you need towers which stick out! soon there will be a line at 150meters from left to right. this will look so ****** ugly.
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Old October 26th, 2008, 01:39 PM   #382
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I disagree. A Millenium Tower would stick out like a sore thumb. Towers between 150-250 m are the best possible option for Frankfurt.
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Old October 26th, 2008, 02:45 PM   #383
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skyline.fan talks like radi

i think, the differentiation of heights is ok in frankfurt. i don't see the "ridiculous ****** ugly line" in that pic. or will the existing and planned towers shrink to 150m? from left to right:

208m, Westendstraße 1
175m, Neue DZ-Bank
144m, Selmi-Hochhaus
160m, UEC Turm 2
130m, Hochhaus an der Matthäuskirche
204m, PWC-Hochhaus
130m, Pollux
210m, UEC Turm 1
095m, Kastor
256m, Messeturm
110m, IBC
170m, Neues Poseidonhaus
159m, Marriott Hotel
144m, Hochhaus am alten Campus Bockenheim

but I agree with the point that Frankfurt could use a new highest point.

Last edited by Patrick; October 26th, 2008 at 02:54 PM.
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Old October 27th, 2008, 02:37 PM   #384
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i didn't point with the finger on the MT which will so or so NEVER be built.
if Frankfurt hasn't even the balls to build a 230meter tower i can imagine where we are in 10 years. 230 meter cmon ... this is ok, 300 ain't even something special today; for Frankfurt 300 is untouchable. Pussy Town ...

Putting too much trust in this city is a mistake i did twice but i won't do it a third time. Happy Birthday for builing a 204 meter tower ... amazing!
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Old October 27th, 2008, 04:30 PM   #385
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THX God for the invention of the Ignore List!

Patrick u are right concerning heights. I also agree with you on your last point.
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Old October 29th, 2008, 06:22 PM   #386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyline.Fan View Post
i didn't point with the finger on the MT which will so or so NEVER be built.
if Frankfurt hasn't even the balls to build a 230meter tower i can imagine where we are in 10 years. 230 meter cmon ... this is ok, 300 ain't even something special today; for Frankfurt 300 is untouchable. Pussy Town ...

Putting too much trust in this city is a mistake i did twice but i won't do it a third time. Happy Birthday for builing a 204 meter tower ... amazing!
If you have such a negative opinion about Frankfurt, so why don't you change your avatar!? And who said 300m was untouchable. Even without MT Frankfurt has a very impressive skyline for a 660k city. There are much bigger cities with a higher growth rate like Buenos Aires which do not even come close to 200m... And it is an enormous megacity. We don't need to compare Frankfurt to Moscow or Shanghai, simply because they have different needs. Look how tall are the tallest buildings in Tokyo...
I think Frankfurt is doing very well. I prefer an occupied 200m tower over an empty 350m tower that wouldn't even be visible at night or which would tap the view on the illuminated smaller towers.
Frankfurt is what it is because of the sustainable development, just like Munich, Vienna and Zürich. They have a good reputation and don't need the tallest schlong to show their strong sides....
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Old October 29th, 2008, 06:37 PM   #387
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I don't understand all the negativity either. the skyscraper construction in the city is booming and all projects have tenants. fact is, the future of skyscrapers in frankfurt is in the 150-250m range. the MT will probably stay an exception. and that's perfectly fine. frankfurt doesn't need taller towers, the city needs more towers.
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Old October 29th, 2008, 08:59 PM   #388
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if the future of skyscrapers in frankfurt would be up to 250m i would be ok with that, but the current building range is more from 150-200m. every proposal with more then 200m gets ridicully cut (marieninsel, dz bank) and existing highrises are no real 250s at all (messeturm and commerzbank highest offices are at about 220m). sorry to say so but this kind of skylineplanning sucks (and has nothing to do with city population at all, its just a political bullshit philosophy)
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Old October 30th, 2008, 11:22 AM   #389
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if the future of skyscrapers in frankfurt would be up to 250m i would be ok with that, but the current building range is more from 150-200m. every proposal with more then 200m gets ridicully cut (marieninsel, dz bank) and existing highrises are no real 250s at all (messeturm and commerzbank highest offices are at about 220m). sorry to say so but this kind of skylineplanning sucks (and has nothing to do with city population at all, its just a political bullshit philosophy)
Since when is Messeturm 220m? It is even above 250m.... And Commerzbank also, if you include the antenna it reaches even 300m!
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Old October 30th, 2008, 01:10 PM   #390
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he means, the highest floor is at 220m. he excluded the technical pyramid from the messeturm and the top part of the commerzbank.

http://skyscraperpage.com/diagrams/?searchID=40183801
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Old October 30th, 2008, 01:16 PM   #391
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everybody of you would cross the fingers if there would be a chance for projects like F21 or a few 200 meter towers + 1 300meter tower.

you just accept the situation, i won't. 230meters too high? cmon ... Frankfurt is an Alpha City, doesn't matter if 660k or 1200k people live there. it's the financial headquarter of central europe and it should look like this. 200 meter towers need to become standard, unluckily they aren't.

Why should i change my avatar? it's the synonym for my addiction to skyscrapers. 259 is the height i want to become standard. i don't hate Frankfurt like some peeps may think, i hate its politicians.
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Old October 30th, 2008, 02:05 PM   #392
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Frankfurt may be an Alpha City, so is Milan. And where are the supertalls in Milan? No city becomes an Alpha City because of it's skyscrapers. If that was reason enough so why isn't Dubai even Gamma and Shanghai only a Gamma metropolis behind cities like Frankfurt or Zürich. And as a banking city importance Frankfurt ranks in 14th place - behind Mumbai! So look at the complete research, not only the final result.
And Zürich is one of the best examples that importance and skyscrapers have nothing to do with each other. I would be pleased with a 300+ tower - but only if it was filled up. An empty 300m tower would be the most ridiculous thing ever! Until now Vivico is executing all of it's projects. Today better than ever before. If Donald Trump hadn't resisted from the MT, it would have been built already. But it is difficult to fill such a big tower in a city that small. And yes, population size HAS to do with size of towers. The city must be big enough to offer enough employment for the number of people needed to fill them up.
And for a slowly growing economy like the German which has many domestic competitors like Munich, Düsseldorf, Hamburg, Cologne and Stuttgart, it is not that easy for Frankfurt. London or Paris are out of concurrence in their own countries - even though the number of 300m towers is still,.... modest!
To liberate only the space offered by the MT other towers would not be built. Do you prefer ONE 350m tower over two towers, e.g. 200m and 150m which would fill the skyline up and making it more compact and denser? Strange! Vivico will only build what is needed and will not build over demand. For building such towers we would have to create more employment and growth that would bring demand and taller buildings also.
Rotterdam has a great skyline even with no single building over 200m.
You should stop comparing Frankfurt to other cities with very different structures. Compare it to other cities in Germany of about same size or even to Berlin!
Frankfurt is doing very well!
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Old October 30th, 2008, 02:39 PM   #393
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyline_FFM View Post
Frankfurt may be an Alpha City, so is Milan. And where are the supertalls in Milan? No city becomes an Alpha City because of it's skyscrapers. If that was reason enough so why isn't Dubai even Gamma and Shanghai only a Gamma metropolis behind cities like Frankfurt or Zürich. And as a banking city importance Frankfurt ranks in 14th place - behind Mumbai! So look at the complete research, not only the final result.
And Zürich is one of the best examples that importance and skyscrapers have nothing to do with each other. I would be pleased with a 300+ tower - but only if it was filled up. An empty 300m tower would be the most ridiculous thing ever! Until now Vivico is executing all of it's projects. Today better than ever before. If Donald Trump hadn't resisted from the MT, it would have been built already. But it is difficult to fill such a big tower in a city that small. And yes, population size HAS to do with size of towers. The city must be big enough to offer enough employment for the number of people needed to fill them up. And for a slowly growing economy like the German which has many domestic competitors like Munich, Düsseldorf, Hamburg, Cologne and Stuttgart, it is not that easy for Frankfurt. London or Paris are out of concurrence in their own countries - even though the number of 300m towers is still,.... modest!
To liberate only the space offered by the MT other towers would not be built. Do you prefer ONE 350m tower over two towers, e.g. 200m and 150m which would fill the skyline up and making it more compact and denser? Strange! Vivico will only build what is needed and will not build over demand. For building such towers we would have to create more employment and growth that would bring demand and taller buildings also.
Rotterdam has a great skyline even with no single building over 200m.
You should stop comparing Frankfurt to other cities with very different structures. Compare it to other cities in Germany of about same size or even to Berlin!
Frankfurt is doing very well!
I presume of course you are talking about metro area population. City Proper populations have no influence here. Afterall, this is a city of only 11,000 people but what a skyline. Naturally, it’s metro area is much larger, just as Frankfurt’s is to it’s 650,000 pop.

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Old October 30th, 2008, 02:40 PM   #394
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At least there are some little minor changes on the Millennium Tower since it's presence at Cityscape Dubai...
Especially the top of the building has changed and somehow it looks taller...

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Old October 30th, 2008, 02:45 PM   #395
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Quote:
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I presume of course you are talking about metro area population. City Proper populations have no influence here. Afterall, this is a city of only 11,000 people but what a skyline. Naturally, it’s metro area is much larger, just as Frankfurt’s is to it’s 650,000 pop.

I am surely speaking about metro populations. And the skyline you posted is from a country which was experiencing rapid growth. Germany had slow growth over the last two decades...
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Old October 30th, 2008, 04:58 PM   #396
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyline_FFM View Post
At least there are some little minor changes on the Millennium Tower since it's presence at Cityscape Dubai...
Especially the top of the building has changed and somehow it looks taller...

uhhmmmm... where did u find that pic? and do u have more pics of cityscape?
looks pretty old since some of the europaviertelproposals are still placeholderboxes.. the actual version of the graphic looks like this

btw: german headquarters of bnp paribas is now under construction - sadly, design was changed to this :
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Old October 30th, 2008, 05:40 PM   #397
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Look at the hp of the company that made the renderings: www.buenck.fehse.com
The whole Europaviertel is turning out into cold, sterile architecture.
Has anyone found news on Kaiserkarree's new design or the design of Skyline Plaza Grand Hyatt hotel?
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Old October 30th, 2008, 05:42 PM   #398
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BTW: I like Skyline Plaza more without MT, it makes the other towers look tiny! Perhaps it's site will turn out to be a nice little Park behind the PwC Tower. Would be nice!
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Old October 30th, 2008, 06:20 PM   #399
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Nice projects for Frankfurt!

Frankfurt is playing catch up!
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Old October 30th, 2008, 08:06 PM   #400
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That new bnp paribas design is not so nice IMO. The old one was much better.

I am very worried about the architecture along the Europallee. Could turn out very bland. A shame for such a prestige project.
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