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[Davee]

Originally Posted by flyin_higher

Yes that's what proper city planning is all about. It's not called 'city responding' after all is it lol. You actually have to plan for things..in advance.

Agree

[KaneD]

A few points...

1) We don't want to wake up to this conundrum when it is too late like auckland has. Agree that Blenheim Rd, Prebbleton residential development and Pegasus were major planning blunders. When councils approve ill-concieved plans like this, it just means that the tax/rate payer will have to find a $50m solution to what should have been a $10m problem. When this happens, the prices are pushed to a level which makes implementation a dream for 10 more years... by which time, even more planning mistakes are made.

2) How come an average bus costs $300,000 when a rail car costs $6million? That seems an exorbitantly high price for a rail car compared to a bus. After all, a rail car isn't 20 times the size of a bus, so why should it be 20 times it's price?

3) Another worry I have is that since funding such a rail system seems to be so prohibitively expensive, if the govt's manage to stump up with the dosh, will it be at the expence of investment in other infrastructure? As it is, the govt is struggling to pay for things like the Southern Motorway ($120m), Johns Rd Bypass ($150m), Northern Arterial ($70m) and other much needed roading infrastructure let alone a $1b plus rail system.

4) Govt's must remember that PT is only part of the 'transport' equation. One of the things that NZ offers it's residents that few other countries do is to allow its citizens move around at will in their private vehicles with relative ease. Some might think it's selfish, but it 'is' a fact... This might be why NZers are such sticklers when it comes to the 'un-cool-ness' factor of riding in PT. After all, assuming congestion is low, what would YOU prefer... driving to work in your own car listening to your own music OR... being in a crowded train with ipod earphones jammed in your ears?

May years ago, the CCC offered 'bus chits' to council workers as an incentive to boost patronage. The idea of this was that the council wanted to encourage people to use the bus more... So why then did the council get rid of the scheme? Was it because there were so few takers?

It would be interesting to do a survey of council workers and central government/public servant workers of transport related departments? I wonder how many of THOSE workers use PT?

[Paulsy]

An interesting historical document from 2001 on possible Southern Motorway design including interchanges and the widening of the overpass embankment.

http://www.transit.govt.nz/content_f...86_pdfFile.pdf

I'd imagine we'll eventually end up with a stripped down version of this.

[Davee]

....and we're still waiting.

It looks good, but I wonder if they will have to make some significant alterations to the design, layout, route and how far it needs to be extended.

I think the way it joins SH1 after Hei Hei crazy. It should at least terminate (or phase 1 as I would like to see this) at Rolleston.

[KIWIKAAS]

The last section is just an upgrade of an existing road (which I coloured in brown). I think the idea is that the motorway will continue south on a traject similar to the red line I added. When that may happen is anyone's guess though.




From the Transit site.

Purpose: To improve access between the south-west and the CBD of Christchurch City and to the Port of Lyttelton and to improve traffic efficiency and safety.
EstimatedCost: $110M*
Start Date: June 2010
End Date: 2014
Location: South of the Christchurch City Centre, connecting Brougham Street in the east with Halswell Junction Road in the west.


Engineering Features: The project is in three distinct sections including:
Duplication section between Collins Street and the Curletts Road interchange. This section includes the duplication of the existing two lanes to form a four-lane median separated motorway, with full interchange access at both Barrington Street and Curletts Road.
Greenfield section between the Curletts Road interchange and the intersection of Halswell Junction and Springs Roads. This section involves the construction of a new four-lane median separated motorway, with underpasses at Nash Road and Awatea/Dunbars Roads (local road going over the motorway).
Upgrade section following Halswell Junction Road between Springs Road and Main South Road. This section involves the upgrading of the existing two-lane road, with the inclusion of a flush median and the installation of traffic signals at the Shands Road and Main South Road intersections.


Environment Features: The proposed motorway crosses a number of old landfill sites as well as the recharge zone for the groundwater aquifers used for Christchurch's water supply. Given the significance of protecting the groundwater aquifers, detailed assessment and care will need to be taken in developing and managing the project. The route of the motorway also bisects the key growth area in the south west of Christchurch. Transit is working closely with Christchurch City Council to ensure that the motorway and associated local road improvements will integrate with the land use pattern emerging through the South West Area Plan.


Other: * $100M Transit New Zealand, $10M Christchurch City Council

[Verdi]

can't work that picture out. is that what it is now or going to look like?

chch needs some bloody decent motorways in and out of the city north and south.

[JM2]

I believe that's what it is now, at the part that connects with Barrington St/Whiteleigh Ave.

[Paulsy]

Originally Posted by JM2

I believe that's what it is now, at the part that connects with Barrington St/Whiteleigh Ave.

Sure is. The original proposal would see the motorway come down the centre and cross Barrington St on an overbridge. The existing lanes would be the entrance and exit ramps leading to the traffic lights on Barrington St. The earth bank would be widened to enable 4 lanes and the motorway would head off towards Curletts Rd where there would be a major interchange and then on to the south. Don't know if this is what we'll end up getting as I'd imagine they'll try to do it all on a very tight budget.

[Paulsy]

Originally Posted by Verdi

can't work that picture out. is that what it is now or going to look like?

chch needs some bloody decent motorways in and out of the city north and south.

I'd like to see the following motorways and expressways built:

Finish the motoway north by bringing it into town joining Cranford St just south of that green belt area (as planned) and extending it north to the proposed Woodend bypass.

Convert Lineside Rd (to Rangiora) to a 4 lane expressway and put in a big interchange where it meets the northern motorway.

Southern motorway built as planned to Rolleston.

Close some side streets off Brougham St expressway or bridge them over to get rid of some of the traffic lights.

Rebuild the bypass from Hornby to Belfast as a 4 lane expressway with grade separated interchanges at all major roads.

Gradually 4 lane the eastern ring road expressway as traffic volumes require and convert as much of it as possible to 100kph. Grade separate key intersections such as Marshlands Rd.

Investigate routes for continuation of the ring road to the west probably joining up with Curletts Rd.

With a few other major roads 4 laned (Ferry Rd, Lincoln/Halswell Rd) we'd really be getting somewhere.
Also finish that bit of Memorial Ave where it cuts back to 2 lanes and 50kph. This is our main access from the airport and it needs finishing.

[Verdi]

Originally Posted by Paulsy

I'd like to see the following motorways and expressways built:

Finish the motoway north by bringing it into town joining Cranford St just south of that green belt area (as planned) and extending it north to the proposed Woodend bypass.

Convert Lineside Rd (to Rangiora) to a 4 lane expressway and put in a big interchange where it meets the northern motorway.

Southern motorway built as planned to Rolleston.

Close some side streets off Brougham St expressway or bridge them over to get rid of some of the traffic lights.

Rebuild the bypass from Hornby to Belfast as a 4 lane expressway with grade separated interchanges at all major roads.

Gradually 4 lane the eastern ring road expressway as traffic volumes require and convert as much of it as possible to 100kph. Grade separate key intersections such as Marshlands Rd.

Investigate routes for continuation of the ring road to the west probably joining up with Curletts Rd.

With a few other major roads 4 laned (Ferry Rd, Lincoln/Halswell Rd) we'd really be getting somewhere.
Also finish that bit of Memorial Ave where it cuts back to 2 lanes and 50kph. This is our main access from the airport and it needs finishing.

thats good. thanks for being able to sum up what many of us a kinda thinking. i was suprised they never built 4 lanes straight away when they did the eastern ring road, i mean you can see how they have made provision for it, so why didn't they just do it? last i drove down there the traffic was heavy with lots of truck going over to the harbour. the whole johns/russley rd is a bloody mess. is there or was there plans for a bypass road from the end of the motorway around the grones and clearwater to join up with johns road to relieve the congestion through Belfast???

[KIWIKAAS]

My little idea for the northern sections.

Green = motorway
Light Red = 4 lane arterial

[Davee]

Very good - and the south of the city??

[metroman]

What would the cost of setting this up and has there been further discussion on it?

[kegan]

Site chosen for new Bus Exchange
Friday, 21 September 2007, 4:48 pm
Press Release: Christchurch City Council

Christchurch City Council has chosen a square block of land in Lichfield Street, west of Colombo Street, as the site for the city's new Bus Exchange.

Christchurch Mayor Garry Moore says a new Bus Exchange is needed because the present exchange is nearly at its capacity. More people are travelling by bus and bus passenger numbers are expected to increase further.

The site chosen for the future development of the Bus Exchange is between numbers 36 and 54 Lichfield Street extending through to Tuam Street. Council is currently negotiating with owners for its purchase.

Council staff have carried out a detailed and thorough investigation into a range of options for the site and have identified the Lichfield Street site as the best option, Garry Moore says.

"Important considerations were proximity to the central city and the shopping, area and it had to be able to support the bus movements and services. It also needed to be large enough to meet bus requirements to 2041.''

Council has made a major commitment to public transport, aiming to double passenger numbers in the next six years. A new larger bus exchange is necessary to support this projected increase.

Mr Moore says the number of daily passenger trips increased by 47% between 2001 and 2007, up to 19,000 daily. This is projected to increase by 21% to 23,000 in 2010.

"The Canterbury Regional Transport Plan and the Metro Strategy in partnership with Environment Canterbury have committed us to developing a supporting system of high quality infrastructure,'' he says. "We want to build a state-of-the-art bus exchange that incorporates the airport-style facilities that have been so successful in the current exchange with modern, efficient and internationally-recognised features.''

"We have really become the victims of our own success,'' Garry Moore says. "Increased patronage has meant pedestrian congestion in lounges at peak times as well as passenger/pedestrian conflict and bus/car conflict.''

"It became imperative to choose a new site that would deal with these issues while remaining in the central city.''

The bus exchange acts as the main central city bus stop from which thousands of people get on or off to access central city employment, shopping, education, leisure and recreation destinations. The exchange is the first or last point of contact with the bus system for 75% of passengers so the site for a new exchange had to be as central as possible to the majority of these destinations.

Advantages of the chosen site are:

* It offers the best bus routing of all options considered

* The large site offers potential for high-quality passenger facilities

* The large site will meet passenger demands now and long-term

* The site is a relatively short distance from the existing bus centre and is conveniently placed for future south central growth.

* It offers the best overall option to lead further city-wide passenger transport growth and to reduce congestion in the central city and the main routes to it.

"We have set clear time frames to work through the process for its acquisition and are keen to ensure landowners receive a fair market value," Mr Moore says.

"The primary focus in the medium term is to make sure the new bus exchange is up and running by the target date of 2012 and we are working with Environment Canterbury and Land Transport New Zealand to achieve this."

As the existing Bus Exchange capacity will be exceeded before 2012, it will be necessary to refurbish the current site and to plan for further increase in bus passenger numbers.''

ENDS

[sensible]

the current bus xchange was too rushed, so i think its great that we get to start with a clean slate!

It will be interesting to see if any provisions are made for future light rail or possibly even heavy rail... Ultimate transport hub!!!!

[metroman]

What would be the cost of the new bus exchange? This sounds like it could be the first tangible sign of an "ultimate transport hub" happening. Given the success of the first one and the growth of the cbd of the next two decades there will probably be a need for a third one.

[timnz2000]

6 Years ago....

....and we're still waiting.

That southern motorway extension has been on the drawing board for years and years. I have a map book from 1994 that has the dotted line joining up with Springs Rd and 'proposed' marked on it!

[KaneD]

Originally Posted by sensible

It will be interesting to see if any provisions are made for future light rail or possibly even heavy rail... Ultimate transport hub!!!!

Not likely to be any thought or consideration of rail.

Many years ago I pointed this 'Transport Hub' problem out to councillors - This was way back in the day when there was an idea of having an underground bus exchange in the Square.

At the time, I suggested that there needed to be better cohesion between different sectors of public transport - While I was not referring to rail in particular (as rail seemed to far fetched at the time) but more a hub for ALL road based public transport. Here is what I mean:

1) Commuter Services - This would be the primary user of the facility and would have numerous stands for services throughout the city

2) Long Distance Coaches (eg: Intercity, Knight Rider etc) - Operators would share a number of special stands for long distance services and would incorporate areas for check in, ticketing etc

3) Shuttles/Taxis - While these focus on the 'door to door' type of operation, they could have their waiting area in the hub as well which would increase the number of casual rides

4) Tour Operators - Companies such as Great Sights and Contiki etc could do their Chch stop here and it would help keep those large coaches clogging the roadsides at Victoria Square, Museum etc. Again they would have additional facilities such as check in etc.

5) Rail - OK there is no rail downtown, but perhaps a booking office/free shuttle connection for passengers on the Transalpine etc

6) Air - Maybe even an Air travel booking agency such as the Flight Centre could have an office here. Or, perhaps airlines could do a 'Check in Counter' and shuttle for passengers booked on flights. This would work similar to Paddington Railway station in London which allows passengers on flights from Heathrow to check in at Paddington, rather than at the Airport itself.

7) Rental Cars - It is possible for even rental car providers to have a pick up/drop off facility here.

So there are some of the possibilities of a real transport hub. Unfortunately our local council seems to be keen on developing the needs of local residents by building a bus exchange for commuter services, but given that Chch will continue to be the gateway to the South Island for domestic and international visitors, I see no reason why we shouldn't plan for transport for those markets too. One only needs to cast one's mind back to all the rather drab and dirty, rundown facilities various operators have used in the past, you'll appreciate the need for this.

[KaneD]

Originally Posted by timnz2000

That southern motorway extension has been on the drawing board for years and years. I have a map book from 1994 that has the dotted line joining up with Springs Rd and 'proposed' marked on it!

Actually the Southern Motorway plan was originally conceived in the 1960's master plan, along with the current Northern Motorway with extensions bypassing Woodend and Belfast.

Its interesting that over the years, much of the 1960's plan was dropped as being either too expensive, not required or just thought as being ill-conceived. Now of course most of those original plans have more or less been reinstated to some degree - Only in the meantime, councillors have wasted enourmous sums of money doing study after study after study, only to find that they need to build the road that was planned in the 1960's anyway.

[metroman]

Christchurch was the first place in New Zealand to get rail travel and at the time it was probably one of the most advanced services of its kind anywhere in the world. At one stage the train even went out to Little River and at one stage until a change of government in the 1920s a rail line was nearly completed which would have linked with Nelson. There are probably other parts of Canterbury as well. Had rail not been abandoned as it was it would be fair to say that the South Island would have double the population it currently has and would have been significantly more industrialized than it is today. In many ways we missed our opportunities. The same can be said about abandoning trams and that doesn't just apply to Christchurch. What is needed is a public float and up to $5 billion needs to be spent on rail nationally.