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Old May 27th, 2010, 07:55 PM   #41
The Dude of Dhahran
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Change the thread name to - Saudi Arabia Railway News & China Bashing -


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This is a map by the Saudi Railways Organization for the future railways system in KSA



The Green, Orange , Blue and Light Blue Lines will have a 240 KM/H trains, the Red Line will have 320 KM/H trains, these line will serve as connection between cites.
Along with these line there will be another type of lines that will server as a connection between the city districts. ( At this moment only Riyadh, Jeddah, Mecca, Medina and KAEC will have this system )
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Old May 28th, 2010, 01:06 AM   #42
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All your stories about my alleged wives and so on are nice and say a lot about your characters, but are irrelevant. If China hires a European/American company to provide technology for its railway system, it doesn't automatically acquire the rights to that technology. That's a fact. I know that China doesn't care much about intellectual property, but that's a different story.

The fact is, that China wouldn't have been able to build its high-speed-rail network without European/American technology. That's nothing to be ashamed of. Not at all. But it's something that should be acknowledged. Unfortunately that seems to be hard for some 'fanboys' in here. But don't worry, you are not alone. There's plenty of stubborn, clueless people out there.
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Old May 28th, 2010, 02:52 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rheintram View Post
All your stories about my alleged wives and so on are nice and say a lot about your characters, but are irrelevant. If China hires a European/American company to provide technology for its railway system, it doesn't automatically acquire the rights to that technology. That's a fact. I know that China doesn't care much about intellectual property, but that's a different story.

The fact is, that China wouldn't have been able to build its high-speed-rail network without European/American technology. That's nothing to be ashamed of. Not at all. But it's something that should be acknowledged. Unfortunately that seems to be hard for some 'fanboys' in here. But don't worry, you are not alone. There's plenty of stubborn, clueless people out there.
American high-speed rail technology?
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Old May 28th, 2010, 05:16 AM   #44
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Quote:
American high-speed rail technology?
Replace term "American" with "Japanese" = fixed.
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Old May 28th, 2010, 06:21 AM   #45
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Tell me which country can provide 350KM/H railway service? If you can't, please shut up.
France
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Old May 28th, 2010, 07:49 AM   #46
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As samuraiblue has repeatedly remarked, the main issue will be dealing with the fine sand of the desert environment. Modern track takes into account expansion and contraction due to temperature variations. EMD has for years supplied diesel locomotives to the Saudi Arabian Railways which are equipped with filters to prevent fine sand from clogging the cooling equipment. Similarly, I believe Siemens will utilize microfilters on the trainsets they provide for this line (obviously Siemens is not a Chinese company).

And can people tone down the whole "my train line is faster than yours" schoolboy bragging? Any competent railway company or railcar builder has the capability to run or build trains capable of 350kmh speeds or above. It's just some don't have the need (due to distances or service frequencies) or the financial justification (higher maintenence/infrastructure costs). Each nation/railway system has its needs, be it operational/commercial (or political). Equating high top speeds with "better" (whatever that means) is too simplistic.
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Old May 28th, 2010, 11:24 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rheintram View Post
All your stories about my alleged wives and so on are nice and say a lot about your characters, but are irrelevant. If China hires a European/American company to provide technology for its railway system, it doesn't automatically acquire the rights to that technology. That's a fact. I know that China doesn't care much about intellectual property, but that's a different story.

The fact is, that China wouldn't have been able to build its high-speed-rail network without European/American technology. That's nothing to be ashamed of. Not at all. But it's something that should be acknowledged. Unfortunately that seems to be hard for some 'fanboys' in here. But don't worry, you are not alone. There's plenty of stubborn, clueless people out there.
seems you're the only one clueless. Welcome to the real world.



As with the Saudi railway.

are there any timelines as to when these lines are to be constructed?
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Old May 28th, 2010, 08:22 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k.k.jetcar View Post
And can people tone down the whole "my train line is faster than yours" schoolboy bragging? Any competent railway company or railcar builder has the capability to run or build trains capable of 350kmh speeds or above. It's just some don't have the need (due to distances or service frequencies) or the financial justification (higher maintenence/infrastructure costs). Each nation/railway system has its needs, be it operational/commercial (or political). Equating high top speeds with "better" (whatever that means) is too simplistic.
You're the voice of reason here. Thanks.
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Old May 28th, 2010, 10:07 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by YelloPerilo View Post
American high-speed rail technology?
I guess he thought about Bombardier.


Anyway, its a rather pointless discussion due to the lack of arguments and ignorance at least on one side.
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Old May 29th, 2010, 11:09 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YelloPerilo View Post
American high-speed rail technology?
thun already said it. Bombardier is Canadian. America is more than just the US.

...wer zuletzt lacht...

@k.k.jetcar: Right, japanese shouldn't be forgotten, of course. My bad.
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Old May 30th, 2010, 06:15 PM   #51
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a lot of canadians don't want to be identified as americans, rather they say we are canadians , but not americans
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Old May 30th, 2010, 08:13 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by nineth View Post
a lot of canadians don't want to be identified as americans, rather they say we are canadians , but not americans
for the purposes of this thread, it's about four legs good, two legs bad.

the differences between canadians and americans can pretty much be glossed over.
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Old May 31st, 2010, 12:01 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuraiBlue View Post
The track will not have much problem with sand the bigger problem would be the trains since the motors and trans are air cooled.
If the sand is powdery it will no doubt mess up the filter and those systems.
With the combination of sand+wind (both of which they have plenty over there), pollution of the ballast by sand will unavoidably occur. Unless of
course they are planning to lay their track on a concrete slab and not on
ballast.

However, the most adverse effect of sand pollution that I know is retention
of water. This, of course, is not going to happen very frequently in the middle
of the desert.

What can be the other bad effects of pollution of the ballast by sand in
a quasi-desertic environment ?

Regarding the rolling stock, I do not believe that producing motive power that
can resist to the harsh conditions encountered in the desert is so easy. In
Iran, which has similar conditions to what we discuss here, only US
manufacturers managed to provide any. GM-made locs that are now 40 years
old still run smoothly, while the Alstom-provided engines, only 10 years old,
did not resist and are already amost all out of service. One wonders whether
the new Siemens locs that are delivered right now will resist any longer...
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Old May 31st, 2010, 09:52 AM   #54
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a lot of canadians don't want to be identified as americans, rather they say we are canadians , but not americans
So Canada is a country in Australia or what?
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Old May 31st, 2010, 03:49 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rheintram View Post
thun already said it. Bombardier is Canadian. America is more than just the US.

...wer zuletzt lacht...

@k.k.jetcar: Right, japanese shouldn't be forgotten, of course. My bad.
Too bad that no Canadian would call himself/herself an American.

Talking about "wer zuletzt lacht ..." it's the Chinese who are laughting on their way to the bank. Siemens cannot even do this job by itself and has to co-operate with a Chinese company.
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Old May 31st, 2010, 04:36 PM   #56
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it's the Chinese who are laughting on their way to the bank. Siemens cannot even do this job by itself and has to co-operate with a Chinese company.
Also, you cannot discount the possibility this was a political deal- after all, China needs all the oil it can get, and in partial lieu of payment in US$, maybe they got this concession.
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Old May 31st, 2010, 11:14 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by k.k.jetcar View Post
Also, you cannot discount the possibility this was a political deal- after all, China needs all the oil it can get, and in partial lieu of payment in US$, maybe they got this concession.
We're talking about Saudi Arabia here... of course it is a political deal... none of the big contracts are ever decided purely on the commercials

Remember that as part of the Iran sanctions deal, Saudi Arabia agreed to supply China with as much oil as they wanted.

The rail contract will probably have come during the sanctions discussions.
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Old June 2nd, 2010, 04:37 AM   #58
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Bombardier railway contracts won't fully offset aerospace weakness: analysts
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MONTREAL - Bombardier's ability to attract lucrative new railway contracts, like a US$241-million automated monorail system in Saudi Arabia announced Monday, will cushion the blow of its struggling aerospace business, industry analysts say.

The Montreal-based plane and train manufacturer is expected to announce Wednesday that its first-quarter profits fell to seven cents per share from nine cents last year.

David Newman of National Bank Financial forecasts that the transportation division will earn US$144 million, or a 6.1 per cent margin, on $2.4 billion in revenues. The aerospace group should earn US$86 million, or a 4.7 per cent margin, on US$1.8 billion in revenues, Newman predicted.

"With aerospace experiencing a drawn-out recovery, the order book for transportation is holding well with notable orders steadily coming in," he wrote in a report.

Cameron Doerksen of Versant Partners believes aerospace margins will be soft at four per cent.

"Indeed, our forecast may be too optimistic given that the aerospace margin was only four per cent on higher aircraft deliveries in the fourth-quarter," he wrote.

Government spending projects in Europe and developing economies such as China and India, should allow the railway division to grow its backlog and bridge the gap until aerospace recovers, industry observers said.

Bombardier has won several railway contracts of late, including its first Saudi automated monorail contract. Engineering and design work will be done in Kingston, Ont., and the 12 cars will be manufactured in Pittsburgh, Pa.

Bombardier said the six-station monorail system will stretch about 3.6 kilometres through the King Abdullah Financial District being built in Riyadh. The monorail system is scheduled for completion in 2012. Bombardier and lead contractor Saudi Oger will provide operation and maintenance services for the system for aninitial contractual period of 10 years.

Previous contracts included a $378-million option by the Toronto Transit Commission for 186 additional subway cars.

It is also bidding on numerous projects in Britain, Australia, New Jersey, Italy and for development of the U.S. high-speed rail network.

In Montreal, it has gone to court with partner Alstom to block retendering in a $3.2-billion subway contract it was expected to win.
http://www.canadianbusiness.com/mark...utm_medium=rss

Bombardier signs US$241M contract with Saudi Oger
Quote:

Bombardier Inc. signed a US$241-million contract to build and operate a new monorail system in Saudi Arabia Monday.

The Montreal transportation giant said it had penned the deal with Saudi Oger Ltd., a leading Saudi Arabian construction company, for the new 3.6 km Innovia Monorail system in Riyadh.

The contract is for six, driverless, 12-car monorail trains, the company said.

"We are exceptionally proud to secure our first major project in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia," said Andre Navarri, the head of Bombardier's rail division, in a statement.

The contract marks another win for Bombardier Transportation, which has been providing a lift for the company's embattled aerospace division throughout the economic downturn.

Bombardier has said it is expecting that its business jet deliveries will fall by 15% in the current fiscal year, while commercial aircraft deliveries will decline by 20% over the same period.

However, it has been awarded several contracts for its trains in the past few months, including a massive contract with France's national railway, SCNF, that could potentially grow to US$11-billion.

David Newman, National Bank Financial analyst, said he is still expecting Bombardier to report a 2¢ a share decline in first-quarter earning, or 7¢ a share, when it reports its results on Wednesday, however.

He, nevertheless, has an "outperform" rating on the stock and a $6.50 price target on the stock largely due to the robust demand for its trains.

"With Aerospace experiencing a drawn out recovery, the order book for Transportation is holding well with notable orders steadily coming in, underpinned by strong fundamental drivers and infrastructure spend around the world," said David Newman, National Bank Financial analyst, in a note to clients over the weekend.
http://www.financialpost.com/story.html?id=3092015

China-made subways to debut in Saudi Arabia

Quote:
Two subway trains made in China have been successfully delivered to Saudi Arabia, representing the first A-type metro export program of China, the State-owned Assets Supervision and Administration Commission of the State Council (SASAC) announced yesterday

The two subway trains are the first batch made by Changchun Railway Vehicles Co., Ltd (CRC) of China for Saudi Arabia's Makkah light rail project. They were entirely designed and manufactured by CRC.

The Makkah light rail project includes 17 A-type aluminum alloy subway trains with 204 carriages. The first phase of the project, covering 18 kilometer rails, will formally run in November 2011, which will ease traffic jams in the Makkah area during the hajj season.

This is the first time that China has exported significant complete sets of mechanical and electrical equipment.
http://english.people.com.cn/90001/9...1/7000662.html
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Old June 16th, 2010, 10:21 AM   #59
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Saudi Railways extends Haramain bidding until July 3rd
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(MENAFN) Saudi Railways Organization (SRO) announced that it has extended the due date to July 3rd for the bidding round of the second phase of Haramain High Speed Railway Project (HHR) that will connect Makkah and Madinah via Jeddah, Reuters reported.

SRO President, Abdulaziz Al Hokail said that the extension decision was taken after a number of consortia requested for an extension for the period granted to them to submit their technical and financial proposals.

He explained that the SRO is seeking to obtain more accurate, professional and integrated proposals; therefore, it has approved the request of consortia to extend the period until July 3rd. However, this delay will not affect the specific date for commissioning the project, which is scheduled for the end of 2012.

Al Hokail said that this part of the project on technical and operational aspects, and the tender calls for the construction of track, signaling, telecommunications, electrification and operational control centre for the HHR.

It also includes the procurement and maintenance of trains, providing additional energy to meet the growing demand over the concession period. Upon completion, the bidder is required to operate and maintain the entire infrastructure for 12 years, Al Hokail added.
http://www.menafn.com/qn_news_story_...yId=1093344685
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Old June 16th, 2010, 10:22 AM   #60
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Makkah Metro will have 20 trains
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MAKKAH: Municipal and Rural Affairs Minister Prince Mansour bin Miteb on Tuesday inspected the Makkah Metro which is designed to transport 70,000 pilgrims in an hour between the holy sites of Makkah, Mina, Arafat and Muzdalifa during the peak days of Haj.

Speaking to reporters after inspecting the metro, which is also called Mashair Railway, Prince Mansour allayed public fears about the quality of the project, adding that it involves French, Canadian and German technology.

The project, covering 18 km, is in the final stages of construction. Thirty-five percent of its capacity would be used during this year's Haj season. It will have 20 trains next year when it operates with full capacity. Each train will have 12 carriages.

The project includes construction of nine railway stations in Arafat, Mina and Muzdalifa, each 300 meters long. One station will be located near the Jamrat Bridge in Mina where the stoning ritual takes place. Pilgrims will be able to board the train from the bridge's fourth floor.

The railway project would bring about remarkable improvements in the transportation of pilgrims between the holy sites, one of the main headaches for Saudi Haj managers. A test drive on the new railway is to take place on Aug. 1.

Commenting on media reports about the project, Prince Mansour said: "We respect what has been reported in the media. We benefit from the views being expressed by writers and citizens in the media. This project is designed by specialized international companies."

He said the various components of the railway are being supplied by major Western companies. "For example, its engines are Canadian and breaks are German. The project is implemented by German Federal Railways in association with Saudi Engineering House."

The minister added: "I would like to reassure everybody about the safety and performance of the new railway." He added that the trains would be in green color.

Twenty percent of seats in the train will be allocated for the elderly, a source told Arab News. "It is expected that about half a million pilgrims would be transported from Arafat to Muzdalifa through this railway system," he added.

Prince Mansour also inspected the second phase of the floodwater drainage systems in Arafat and Muzdalifa and along the roads of the holy sites. The new projects cost SR4 billion.

Meanwhile, a workshop was held at the Haj Ministry's branch office in Jeddah to enlighten domestic Haj companies on the Mashair Railway. Abdul Qader Al-Jabarti, chairman of the Haj Committee, has asked the authorities to reduce the proposed charge for using the railway from SR250 to SR90.

"The railway is being established with the financial support of the government to serve pilgrims. The proposed fare of SR250 to be paid by each pilgrim using the railway is very high. It should be reduced to SR90," he told Arab News.

Al-Jabarti said more than 150,000 pilgrims from Saudi Arabia and other GCC countries will use the facility during the first phase. "These pilgrims account for 73 percent of domestic pilgrims," he pointed out. Al-Jabarti said all pilgrims including locals and foreigners will use the railway during the second phase of the project.
http://www.zawya.com/Story.cfm/sidZA...%2020%20trains
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