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Old October 16th, 2008, 03:01 PM   #181
Almopos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imaginas View Post
Εσύ απαντάς με κομματικούς όρους,και δε θα μπω στη διαδικασία αντιπαράθεσης κομματικών "επιχειρημάτων",αλλά θα μιλήσω με οικονομικούς όρους που είναι και η δουλειά μου.

Ο ΟΣΕ,λέει το ΥΜΕ,έχει περίπου 500 δις ευρώ έλλειμμα.Ωραία,έχει τόσο έλλειμμα.Πρέπει να μας πει όμως από που προέρχεται το έλλειμμα.Μια μελέτη στις οικονομικές καταστάσεις που έχει δημοσιοποιήσει,εμφανίζει την πηγή του παθητικού.Τον τραπεζικό δανεισμό.Γιατί όμως προβαίνει σε τραπεζικό δανεισμό ο ΟΣΕ;Μα για να χρηματοδοτήσει τα έργα που κάνει,και φαίνονται στο ενεργητικό του.Το 70% του παθητικού του είναι για τα έργα.Διότι τα έργα σιδηροδρόμου,τα χρηματοδοτεί ο ΟΣΕ,και παίρνει και μια χρηματοδότηση για κάποια από την Ε.Ε.Όχι όμως όλα,διότι δεν είναι όλα έργα μεγάλα,αλλά είναι και η συντήρηση του δικτύου του και η συντήρηση των οχημάτων του.Το 30% που απομένει από τα 500 περίπου δις ευρώ,μπορεί να αναλυθεί περαιτέρω.Ο ΟΣΕ,σε αντίθεση με την Ο.Α,δεν επιδοτείται για κάποια δρομολόγια σε περιφεριακές γραμμές που δεν είναι κερδοφόρα,αλλά βοηθάει τις τοπικές κοινωνίες.Άρα,τις ζημίες τις καρπώνεται αυτός.Κατά συνέπεια,το χρέος που μας λέει ο ΥΜΕ,δεν είναι όσο λέει,αλλά μικρότερο.Και πώς μειώνεις το χρέος;Κόβοντας δημοφιλή δρομολόγια;Όχι βέβαια,περιορίζοντας το κόστος παροχής υπηρεσιών.Μα,θα πει κάποιος,έχουν πολύ προσωπικό που δε χρειάζεται.Θα απαντήσω εγώ,είσαι σίγουρος;Αν έχουν πολύ προσωπικό,γιατί όταν πάω να αγοράσω εισιτήριο στον Σταθμό Λαρίσης στην Αθήνα,έχει έναν ταμεία και αναμονή 60 άτομα;Γιατί πληρώνει εταιρείες σεκιούριτη (τουλάχιστον δύο διαφορετικές) και δεν κάνει κάποιους υπαλλήλους που περισσεύουν,ασφάλεια;Γιατί ενώ η γραμμή Κόρινθος-Άργος-Τρίπολη,είναι έτοιμη δεν τη δίνει στην κυκλοφορία για να αποσβέσει την επένδυση για την ανακαίνιση της;Γιατί στο σχέδιο της εξυγίανσης που λέει ο ΥΜΕ,έχει πρόσληψη μηχανοδηγών;Μα διότι για να βγει η δουλειά,οι μηχανοδηγοί κάνουν υπερωρίες,και κοστίζουν περισσότερα...Αντί να λύσει αυτά τα προβλήματα,κόβει δημοφιλή δρομολόγια,όπως το 602/603 το οποίο κόπηκε επειδή δε φτάνουν οι μηχανές Ad tranz,διότι,οι τροχοί που έπρεπε να αντικατασταθούν,δεν υπάρχουν.Δεν έκαναν παραγγελία...Οι πληροφορίες λένε για κόψιμο αμαξοστιχιών,που έχουν πληρότητα 120% όπως οι 883 αν δεν κάνω λάθος το νούμερο,που πάνε Αθήνα-Τρίκαλα.Ή τα δρομολόγια 500-501-502-503 που είναι πάντα και με όρθιους.Και θα αφήσει μόνο κάποια IC,ICE.Εδώ,ακόμα και την 604 τη νυχτερινή για Θεσσαλονίκη,σκέφτονται να κλείσουν.Κάνε μια εγγραφή στο amnizia.com και θα πάρεις απαντήσεις σε όλες σου τις απορίες.Εγώ,πρώτα είμαι φίλος του σιδηροδρόμου και μετά ψηφοφόρος κάποιου κόμματος.Όνειρο μου είναι να ξαναπάω με τραίνο στην Καλαμάτα,αλλά δεν το βλέπω.Βλέπεις,τα συμφέροντα των ΚΤΕΛ είναι τεράστια.

Imaginas, thank you for replying to my post. It is always nice do discuss with someone that has indepth knowledge about a particular subject. However, since this is an English thread I would like to propose continuing our discussion in the Hellenic Agora transportation thread.
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Old October 16th, 2008, 09:13 PM   #182
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New photos from constuctions in Athens and the suburbans.
From a bridge in Agious Anargyrous 5km far away from Athens central station.The corridors of suburban railway and a new station.







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Old October 17th, 2008, 11:59 AM   #183
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Calm down, you country is not the only one who has this kind of problem.
ohhh unfortunately i think it is...

imaginas great photos.. the new suburban route will look quite modern i think...
i hope we will see some plans for underground parts from the south part to piraeus too.
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Old October 17th, 2008, 08:40 PM   #184
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I have some questions about the new Proastiakos line Pireas-SKA:
-Will it be fully underground, or only the sections from Larissis to SKA?
-Why they build in Larissis station a ground- and an ounderground station, waste of money?!
-Will they close the overground section Larissis-SKA?
-Any finishing announcment (we'd have to add at least +3 years )
-I hope with electric trains?

Thanks
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Old October 17th, 2008, 09:16 PM   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVassilios View Post
I have some questions about the new Proastiakos line Pireas-SKA:
-Will it be fully underground, or only the sections from Larissis to SKA?
-Why they build in Larissis station a ground- and an ounderground station, waste of money?!
-Will they close the overground section Larissis-SKA?
-Any finishing announcment (we'd have to add at least +3 years )
-I hope with electric trains?

Thanks
-It will be underground from Athens to ska.
-Underground will be only the prastiakos station.The curent station will continues the services.
-Yes.
-I don't know.
-Yes electric trains.
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Old October 17th, 2008, 10:52 PM   #186
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Thanks! But that's strange why don't they build proastiakos and IC's at the same level? there is enough space! Do you know when about they started with the tunnels?
Sry i'm not up to date!
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Old October 18th, 2008, 06:59 AM   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVassilios View Post
Thanks! But that's strange why don't they build proastiakos and IC's at the same level? there is enough space! Do you know when about they started with the tunnels?
Sry i'm not up to date!
The problem is the residents not the space.They want not proastiakos lines over the ground...Say,"noise" "danger"...The cars and motorbikes have not noise

It's not exactly underground as metro.Will be semi underground,if you know what i mean.As Hlektrikos Peireus-Kifisia...
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Old October 18th, 2008, 12:27 PM   #188
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do you consider Hlektrikos Peireus-Kifisia as metro or suburban train?
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Old October 18th, 2008, 02:09 PM   #189
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Hlektrikos is a metro line but needs modernization.
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Old October 18th, 2008, 02:29 PM   #190
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how old is it? How old are the trains and line? I think line is modernizied for Olympics with stations ect!
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Old October 18th, 2008, 02:50 PM   #191
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Is since 1869!Yes before olympic games the stations modernized,but needs more.The maximum speed is very low-i don't know the number-and the trains are too old.


You can see the history of isap in the official site www.isap.gr
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Old October 18th, 2008, 02:56 PM   #192
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I didn't mean the first openning actually. I meant trains and other mechanics, rails ect! Airport trains of ROTEM are wonderful, large, modern and fast. This one is narrow, slow and airless, but from outside looks modern.
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Old October 18th, 2008, 03:16 PM   #193
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Check here: http://www.isap.gr/eng/page.asp?id=43
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Old October 18th, 2008, 05:53 PM   #194
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This thread unfortunately turned ugly (lots of hate and misinformation).
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Old October 18th, 2008, 07:23 PM   #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuvvaci View Post
I didn't mean the first openning actually. I meant trains and other mechanics, rails ect! Airport trains of ROTEM are wonderful, large, modern and fast. This one is narrow, slow and airless, but from outside looks modern.
-They made all stations new in 2004 (they look brilliant!)
-Most of the trains built in 2003 (by Bombardier), the others by MAN (1980), so accepable ones!
-Trains are slowly and fast...it does matter where (so acctually it's ok the speed!) e.g. Omonia-Monastiraki is quite slow (maybe of the old tunnel?), but Kalithea- Moschato is a fast one!

I like the "ilektrikos" very much, it's enough fast to call it Metro and it's a wonderful connection from the north to the very south of Athens/Pireas!
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Old October 18th, 2008, 09:41 PM   #196
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yes.. i dont think that ilektrikos need such a mdernisation.. sure, the tunnels and the railroad needs some but the trains and the stations are wonderful. btw its metro unexceptionably. the service frequency is better than the attiko metro i think.
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Old October 18th, 2008, 10:13 PM   #197
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Corinth railway station (October 2008)


a lonely railbus DMU




railbus and MAN DMUs together...





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Old October 19th, 2008, 01:33 AM   #198
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nice pictures...

Skaros, what is going on the Corinthos-Patras line construction?
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Old October 21st, 2008, 12:59 AM   #199
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Why there is no electrification?
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Old October 21st, 2008, 06:44 PM   #200
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Quote:
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Why there is no electrification?
Because they had a delay by building the line, and because around athens quite nothing (only nerantiotissa-airport) had electrification, they decided to open the line without, but now there are building it, to be finished in about 1/2 year or more
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