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Old February 26th, 2009, 02:48 AM   #241
ovem
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yes the construction is a little bit slower now i think. what is the bridge you are talking about?
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Old February 26th, 2009, 07:33 AM   #242
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there must be railway over bridge right there to across the railway for passing to the side of Peleponissos station wich is sadly not a train station anymore.

thank you so much for this photo... If I want anything could you please do for me?
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Old February 26th, 2009, 11:02 PM   #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosier View Post
Good job Greece.

Are there any plans to build HSR from Athens to Thessaloniki and Istanbul?
Greetings Hoosier!!

The railway lines between the country's 3 largest cities (Athens-Thessaloniki and Athens-Patra) are indeed being upgraded to handle speeds up to 250 km/h. So technically, they will be high speed rail lines. EU standards designate high speed rail as 200 km/h or faster (US classifies as high speed: 145 km/h or faster). These high speed lines will not be able to handle the max speeds that France's LGV lines (for example) can handle, but they will certainly be high speed capable. When the lines are complete, I think the plan is for trains to run at 200 km/h max. Traveling time from Athens to Thessaloniki, which was 6 hours before any of the upgrades began, is already down to 4 hours, I believe, on direct trains, so the duration of this trip may be further reduced iwhen the upgrade is complete and 200 km/h trains are introduced. On many stretches, they're entirely reconstructing and re-routing the rail line, to make it straighter so that it can handle high speeds (and there's pictures of this progress throughout this thread). Greece's geography is very hilly and mountainous, with lots of peninsulas and gulfs, and until the 1990s there were neither the funds nor the technology to build all these bridges and tunnels necessary for straighter rail lines. It's a great project, and a badly needed one.

As for Thessaloniki-Istanbul HSR, there isn't enough demand for this yet. The overland distance from Athens to Istanbul is actually very long; someone wishing to travel from Athens to Istanbul can just fly (there's ample direct flights each day), which is much faster than taking the train - even if it's high speed - from Athens to Thessaloniki to Istanbul. Thessaloniki is closer to Istanbul than Athens is, but the city also has direct flights to Istanbul, and the volume of Thessaloniki-Istanbul traffic isn't high enough to currently justify hundreds of millions of euros being spend on a high-speed line between the two cities. High speed rail succeeds in relatively short distances, like Barcelona-Madrid, Paris-Marseille, Paris-Amsterdam, Tokyo-Osaka, New York-Washington, where taking the train is faster than flying (when we factor in commuting to the airport, airport check-in, security, baggage claim, etc). Other preconditions are: there must be a lot of traffic between the two cities, and/or the rail lines must include other high-traffic stops (usually regional cities) along the way; densely populated regions usually fit this criterion. The reason why HSR will be successful on Athens-Patra and Athens-Thessaloniki routes is because they're relatively short distances (especially Athens-Patra), there's a lot of traffic between the 3 cities (for example there's a lot -and I mean a lot- of flights from Athens to Thessaloniki, so we know there's ample demand), and because the Patra-Athens-Thessaloniki axis (a strip of land shaped like a backwards "L") covers the majority of the country's popoulation. It's a densely populated region, and stops along the way can include cities like Corinth, Lamia, and Larisa on some of the trains. HSR thrives under these conditions.

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Old February 28th, 2009, 12:34 AM   #244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuvvaci View Post
there must be railway over bridge right there to across the railway for passing to the side of Peleponissos station wich is sadly not a train station anymore.

thank you so much for this photo... If I want anything could you please do for me?
i dont know anything about this bridge.
what do you mean by "If I want anything could you please do for me?" do you want me to take pictures or what?
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Old February 28th, 2009, 08:48 AM   #245
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I'd like you to take the pictures of everest cafe's at the Larissa station and interior of the station. Of course not inside of the cafe but outside with metro station exit! I meant this.

BTW, does Greece build new lines with 250km/h speed?
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Old February 28th, 2009, 01:29 PM   #246
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I agree about the HSR between Thessaloniki and Istanbul. A beautiful dream, but not a very sound one economically speaking. I would rather see major projects in the rest of the country to upgrade old lines to modern standards or build new 'normal' lines.
Is there any possibility of an upgrading of the Peloponnisos line (Corinth - Argos - Kalamata)? I am sure that a renovated line to Nauplio would benefit tourism and local economy.
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Old February 28th, 2009, 04:17 PM   #247
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instead of HSR between Turkey and Greece, it is enough to upgrade the current line wich is slow. Upgrading the current line, and the stations of the both sides will be a good start and increase the passanger number. First of all Friendship Express must drive with 160km/h.
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Old March 1st, 2009, 01:47 AM   #248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuvvaci View Post
BTW, does Greece build new lines with 250km/h speed?
Yes, the new Athens-Patra and Athens-Thessaloniki lines will be able to handle speeds up to 250 km/h.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogged View Post
Is there any possibility of an upgrading of the Peloponnisos line (Corinth - Argos - Kalamata)?
Yes, this entire section has been closed for a few years now, and is being upgraded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogged View Post
I am sure that a renovated line to Nauplio would benefit tourism and local economy.
Definitely, such a project is sorely needed, and -since Nauplio is a popular weekend getaway for Athenians- it would also offer Athenians a good alternative to taking the car. The rail towards Nauplio is just a short branch off of the Corinth-Argos-Kalamata rail line, so it would make sense to upgrade it together with the main Corinth-Argos-Kalamta line. I would love to see a nice new train station for Nauplio one day soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuvvaci View Post
instead of HSR between Turkey and Greece, it is enough to upgrade the current line wich is slow. Upgrading the current line, and the stations of the both sides will be a good start and increase the passanger number. First of all Friendship Express must drive with 160km/h.
The line from Thessaloniki to Alexandroupoli and the Turkish border is indeed being upgraded. Unfortunately, it's not being made into double track, so this will limit the amount of Thessaloniki-Istanbul trains per day. But the quality of the commute will be better. This line doesn't just serve traffic between Thessaloniki and Istanbul, but it also serves traffic to/from all the Greek cities along the way, like Serres, Xanthi, Alexandroupoli, and so on. Hopefully, a further upgrade of this line will happen in the future as a second phase of OSE's overhaul. There may not currently be enough demand for a high-speed Thessaloniki-Istanbul line, but I think there should definitely be a double track the connects all the cities in northeast Greece to Thessaloniki, as well as Thessaloniki to Istanbul, and allow for more than just one daily train (each way) between Thessaloniki and Istanbul. (The current line also bypasses Kavala, so it would be great to build a branch of the line to serve that city). Currently, it's possible to take a bus from Thessaloniki to Istanbul (you can also fly, of course), but it's a very long drive, which makes for an uncomfortable bus trip. So we know there's demand for more frequent train service between the two cities, to at least 2 per day.
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Old March 1st, 2009, 06:09 PM   #249
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HSR will win the market if it can get below 3 hours and it is competitive at below 4 hours. Is Istanbul - Thekaloni travelable at 350kmh (the standard of the new HSR lines) in 3 hours? that is, is the distance roughly 1050 km or less?
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Old March 2nd, 2009, 09:41 AM   #250
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less as I know! And I am sure 350 km/h HST can travel from Salonica to Istanbul in 3 hours. A forumer who knows the distance can calculate.
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Old March 26th, 2009, 03:05 PM   #251
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By 2014, the national railway network will have undergone major infrastructural changes, Hatzidakis announced at a joint press conference with the European Commissioner for Regional Policy Danuta Hubner, on September 9 in Athens. Electrical railway tracks as well as environmentalally-friendly urban transport and the tram line’s extension will be some of the suggested projects to be implemented through the National Strategic Reference Framework (2007-2013), worth €20 billion.

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Old March 29th, 2009, 12:57 PM   #252
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how is the progress in Thriassio Pedio logistic terminal?
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Old April 5th, 2009, 03:25 AM   #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by london24/7 View Post
HSR will win the market if it can get below 3 hours and it is competitive at below 4 hours. Is Istanbul - Thekaloni travelable at 350kmh (the standard of the new HSR lines) in 3 hours? that is, is the distance roughly 1050 km or less?
They've recently built a couple new lines in France and Spain that can handle those speeds (and much higher), but the regularly-scheduled trains on those new lines run at a bit less than 350 km/h, peaking at about 300-320 km/h, which is still very fast, of course. Also, such speeds need HSR lines that are very, very straight, and sometimes the terrain doesn't allow that. There's new technology for tunnel and bridge-building of course, but the projected benefits will have to outweigh the costs.

I think you make an interesting point that the durations of HSR commutes need to be under 4 hours in order to make comparisons. I don't think this is universally applicable, but you're probably right in most cases.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuvvaci View Post
less as I know! And I am sure 350 km/h HST can travel from Salonica to Istanbul in 3 hours. A forumer who knows the distance can calculate.
Kuvvaci, you're right, it's a lot less than 1050km. The rail distance between Thessaloniki and Istanbul is only 514 km. So, even at 200 km/h (assuming the train runs at exactly 200 km/h from start to finish), the commute will take little more than 2,5 hours. If we add stops along the way, and give the train enough time to speed up and slow down, this commute can take 3-3,5 hours. If we increase peak speed to 250 km/h, the commute should definitely be under 3 hours, IMO. So I guess that means that HSR between these two cities can one day be an economically viable option, pending demand.

We know for a fact that a Thessaloniki-Istanbul HSR line is on the drawing board as a long term goal. The EU wants to eventually connect all major European cities to each other thorugh a relatively dense HSR network. Thessaloniki-Istanbul is not top priority for the moment, but it's a project that is being considered for when the right time comes. I'd love to see it one day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by altuzarra27 View Post
By 2014, the national railway network will have undergone major infrastructural changes, Hatzidakis announced at a joint press conference with the European Commissioner for Regional Policy Danuta Hubner, on September 9 in Athens. Electrical railway tracks as well as environmentalally-friendly urban transport and the tram line’s extension will be some of the suggested projects to be implemented through the National Strategic Reference Framework (2007-2013), worth €20 billion.
Excellent news, thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RelaxInPireaus View Post
how is the progress in Thriassio Pedio logistic terminal?
I haven't read any news, but it looks like a busy construction site on Google Earth.

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Old April 7th, 2009, 06:13 PM   #254
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The google earth photo is quite old and shows the drainage works. Now almost all phase 1 tracks of the Thriassio complex have been laid (over 42 km of single track) including over 120 turnouts and double slips. A new access road is also under construction (to the north and south of the long overpass seen at the east side of the complex). Large areas are paved for storing of containers and circulation of lorries. Phase 2 works that include signalling, electrifiacation and buildings has not been tendered yet .
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Old April 10th, 2009, 06:11 AM   #255
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good news for the part domokos - lianokladi. it seems like much work is going on there. i saw the progress from the train. most of the tunnels are digged along this part and the bridges' pylons are ready but without the surface deck. the gravelling along the line is also going on well. many trucks along the line working. i couldnt take any pictures because it was dark. next time i'll travel during daytime i'll post some.
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Old April 10th, 2009, 12:43 PM   #256
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Here is a panoramic view of the Thriassio rail complex as seen from the road overpass at the east of the complex looking towards west:



On the far left a suburban train (railbus DMU) from Kiato and Korinthos can be seen running on the high speed line which is being electrified (the poles are already erected). The Aspropyrgos suburban station can also be seen. In the middle you can see the marshalling yard part and to the right you can see the area for transhipment of goods between rail and road. In the background the red buildings were used as storehouses during the Olympic Games and will be converted to major workshops for OSE rolling stock.
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Old April 10th, 2009, 06:04 PM   #257
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Acharnes Railway Center (SKA)

[IMG]http://i44.************/aaca6g.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i43.************/2hcn3oz.jpg[/IMG]

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Old April 11th, 2009, 07:47 PM   #258
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thank you very much for the Thriassion photo.

i thought it would have more buildings but as we can see the area is mostly covered with rail tracks.
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Old April 17th, 2009, 07:55 PM   #259
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The progress of constructions in Athens Central Stations (Larisa station)



Three trains in Athens Central

From left to right:MAN 2000 (Arive from Kiato),Railbus (Departure to Kiato) and one train with Bombardier locomotive and veichles from Kioleidis S.A.Is an ICE to Thesaloniki

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Old April 22nd, 2009, 10:50 PM   #260
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Thanks imaginas

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Stirfaka railway bridge u/c

a year ago

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today

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photos by GEO (www.stadia.gr)
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