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Old December 25th, 2010, 11:29 PM   #361
Gadiri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inhalealook View Post
@ Gadiri: Yes, an OSE class 4501 Stadler/Bombardier/Hellenic Ship Yards metric (1000mm) GTW 2/6 (articulated railcar) 2‘ Bo 2‘ type Diesel Trainset on the Peloponnese narrow gauge (1000mm) network, started operation circa 2003.

More info: http://www.stadlerrail.com/en/refere...-griechenland/
I like Stadler products !





http://www.stadlerrail.com/media/upl.../GTW_OSE_e.pdf
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Old December 26th, 2010, 12:11 AM   #362
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They 're OK I guess, but there have been some over-heating problems during summer months at top speeds, as StadlerRail obviously had not anticipated greek temperatures and the need for air-conditioning(!!). Now the standard gauge versions are used only in the Piraeus-Ano Liosia section of the Athens Suburban Railway service, as after the comlpetion of the electrification, Desiro EMUs took over in the Airport-Kiato line.
http://www.mobility.siemens.com/mobi...ceID=648&lID=1
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Old December 26th, 2010, 12:29 PM   #363
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yes very sad news, but as they said it is the only way to make the railway profitable. although even air traveling will already compete railway, as plane journey from Athens to THessaloniki can be done wiht less than 100 euros.
I love trains, and can't believe for example the stadler on that photo we will never see again. + all the DMUs are becoming useless, including AEG. They will remain on Alexandroupoli direction at least I think.

So very soon all stadlers will go on sale from Greece maybe?
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Old December 26th, 2010, 12:34 PM   #364
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in july 2009 i predicted the situation we have today. on this page you can read my comparision of Greece and Argentina

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...455457&page=15
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Old December 26th, 2010, 07:55 PM   #365
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@inhalealook: I was not trying to diminish the progress that has been made, I just could not believe that you guys were continuing to report on this without mentioning that half of the country is literally being derailed next week and that Greece will now be the only country in continental Europe besides Albania that runs no international passenger services.

Closed down lines hardly ever come back ( I lived in Berlin/Eastern Germany in the 1990s and while the inner city lines interrupted by the Cold War were mostly rebuilt, much of Eastern Germany saw lines closed down). If we want to see them run, we have to fight for them now, not after some consolidation and privatization of OSE in the far future.

A German forum of rail fanatics (drehscheibe-online.de) is heatily debating the reasons and possible exit strategies for OSE's plight. Most agree that OSE was squeezed between the bus oligopoly (KTEL) that successfully prevented competitive services and the self-service, beaurocratic make-up of OSE itself. For the international services, the best solution would be to turn over their operations to the neighboring companies (TCDD, BDZ, MZ) or better yet operate them in cooperation. If such a thing is possible in this part of the world, that is. The Philia Express was always full, some days you could not get tickets on it.
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Old December 26th, 2010, 09:44 PM   #366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Hirsch View Post
For the international services, the best solution would be to turn over their operations to the neighboring companies (TCDD, BDZ, MZ) or better yet operate them in cooperation. If such a thing is possible in this part of the world, that is. The Philia Express was always full, some days you could not get tickets on it.
Greece being part of the European Union, their railways are supposed to
accept trains running in "open access" mode on their network. What I
do not know is whether they also have to accept trains from countries
that are not part of the EU, like Turkey or Serbia. If not, only the international
train from Sofia will be able to operate that way. And in any case, this might
take ages before it can happen, because it will first require to qualify
locomotives from the neighbour countries to operate on the OSE network.
As far as I know, for the time being, interoperability does not really exist
yet in this part of the world.

30 years ago, I did a train trip from Brussels to Athens and back. I still have
pictures of that, on diapositives. I will try to have them digitized, and publish
them on the net, as a remembrance of a time definitely gone by. :-(
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Old December 27th, 2010, 12:07 AM   #367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Hirsch View Post
@inhalealook: I was not trying to diminish the progress that has been made, I just could not believe that you guys were continuing to report on this without mentioning that half of the country is literally being derailed next week and that Greece will now be the only country in continental Europe besides Albania that runs no international passenger services.

Closed down lines hardly ever come back ( I lived in Berlin/Eastern Germany in the 1990s and while the inner city lines interrupted by the Cold War were mostly rebuilt, much of Eastern Germany saw lines closed down). If we want to see them run, we have to fight for them now, not after some consolidation and privatization of OSE in the far future.

A German forum of rail fanatics (drehscheibe-online.de) is heatily debating the reasons and possible exit strategies for OSE's plight. Most agree that OSE was squeezed between the bus oligopoly (KTEL) that successfully prevented competitive services and the self-service, beaurocratic make-up of OSE itself. For the international services, the best solution would be to turn over their operations to the neighboring companies (TCDD, BDZ, MZ) or better yet operate them in cooperation. If such a thing is possible in this part of the world, that is. The Philia Express was always full, some days you could not get tickets on it.
I understand your support, but when we face it.. I dont know it makes me depressed .ktel becomes monopoly as a matter of fact and not cheap one. but what arguments to give in support of the railway? 1 billion euros lost this year? people are hungry, really it is not a joke. things are getting only worse as i see and feel.
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Old December 28th, 2010, 02:08 AM   #368
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Quote:
@inhalealook: I was not trying to diminish the progress that has been made, I just could not believe that you guys were continuing to report on this without mentioning that half of the country is literally being derailed next week and that Greece will now be the only country in continental Europe besides Albania that runs no international passenger services.
Of course we are aware of the situation and we are trying to change it, but insisting on the negative aspects will offer nothing. Our country has taken enough beating as it is, it needs no more of this type of "attention" - and comparing Greece to other Balcan countries in such a fashion is untimely, to say the least. On the other hand, any suggestions would be welcome. The proposal for a co-operation with the neighbouring countries to keep the international services running was most interesting, for example. Moreover, any experience with "alternative" regional/local railway operators and other ways of funding in your country would also be invaluable to us.

Until then, we should continue to concentrate on the positive aspects and unique features of the Greek Railways, the services that will remain active and espescially highlight any infrastructure projects progress and improvement/upgrading.

Let's see what is still out there:

An italian railfan video illustrating the unique characteristics (positive and negative) of the Peloponnese narrow gauge network on the Olimpia-Katakolo line of tourist interest, that will remain active. Also some views of the Neoclassical-style Olympia railway station.

Some cabin views of the countryside on the same route:

Rolling stock is one of the metric (1000 mm) Stadler GTW 2/6 Diesel Railbuses Gadiri seems to like.

Train spotting on the main Athens-Thessaloniki corridor, at Tempi Valley.


The Thessaloniki-Alexandroupoli line serving the regions of East Macedonia and Thrace will remain active: An AEG IC train entering to Lefkothea:


Volos-Larisa-Volos local service will also continue to be operational: MAN DMU on train to Larisa departing the city of Volos:


MLWs with freight train for Eidomeni passes Papadia bridge. At least the freight traffic along the Thessaloniki-Eidomeni section should continue.


The Athens-Halikda service is a fairly succesfull one. AEG trainsets on trains 1554/1557/1559 from/to Halikda, with the Halikda motorway cable-stayed bridge and a cement factory in the backround. Electrification infrastructure in place, awaiting activation.
(This video's intro is very interesting as well)


Lots of train traffic at Oinoi Station, where the Halikda line branches of the main Athens-Thessaloniki corridor. Passenger and freight, local (to/from Halikda) and long distance (to/from Volos and Thessaloniki) trains.


Many things to see, many things alive, worth saving, supporting and using in the Greek Railways...

Last edited by inhalealook; January 16th, 2011 at 01:01 PM.
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Old December 28th, 2010, 02:37 PM   #369
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inhalealook View Post
An italian railfan video illustrating the unique characteristics (positive and negative) of the Peloponnese narrow gauge network on the Olimpia-Katakolo line of tourist interest, that will remain active. Also some views of the Neoclassical-style Olympia railway station.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1g3OCp7upBY
Some cabin views of the countryside on the same route:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GS9aROYlHKU
Rolling stock is one of the metric (1000 mm) Stadler GTW 2/6 Diesel Railbuses Gadiri seems to like.

Train spotting on the main Athens-Thessaloniki corridor, at Tempi Valley.
Desiro EMU on train to Larisa, IC 71, train 501 (hauled by HellasSprinter electric locos) and again Desiro EMU on train to Thessaloniki.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceQ_tAycpZs

The Thessaloniki-Alexandroupoli line serving the regions of East Macedonia and Thrace will remain active: An AEG IC train entering to Lefkothea:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7_1N...eature=related

Volos-Larisa-Volos local service: MAN DMU on train to Volos departing Larisa Station:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJsE0pdpMsI

MLWs with freight train for Eidomeni passes Papadia bridge
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5MCfA2YsTk

The Athens-Halikda service is a fairly succesfull one. AEG trainsets on trains 1554/1557/1559 from/to Halikda, with the Halikda motorway cable-stayed bridge and a cement factory in the backround. Electrification infrastructure in place, awaiting activation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxrqRZsI_XQ (This video's intro is very interesting as well)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L89VP57pmoU

Lots of train traffic at Oinoi Station, where the Halikda line branches of the main Athens-Thessaloniki corridor. Passenger and freight, local (to/from Halikda) and long distance (to/from Volos and Thessaloniki) trains.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_uDLV1eNAQ

Many things to see, many things alive, worth saving, supporting and using in the Greek Railways...
Sorry this is in french, but you can understand :

FAQ ~ About SSC ~ Uploading images and videos?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ωρτimuş View Post
Pour insérer des vidéos il suffit de recopier leurs codes d'identification

Sur Youtube

NB: à ne pas copier le "&" et tout ce qui vient après

Sur Dailymotion



Ensuite d'insérer le code entre les balises spécifiques à chaque type de vidéo

Exemples :

PHP Code:
[youtube]Dk1PbptpjfQ[/youtube]

[
dailymotion]x8a40x[/dailymotion]

[
vimeo]code[/vimeo]

[
blip]code[/blip

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ωρτimuş View Post


Comment télécharger, réduire et poster vos images sur le forum


Vous pouvez utiliser par exemple l'hébergeur http://imageshack.us/


1 - Chercher l'image à transférer
2 - Option de redimensionnement (seulement si l'image est trop grande)
3 - Choisir la résolution (800x600) ou autre





4 - Copier le Lien Direct




5 - Cliquez sur l'icône "Insert Image"

6 - Collez-y l'adresse du lien Direct





Et c'est à peu près la même chose avec les autres hébergeurs d'images
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Old December 28th, 2010, 03:00 PM   #370
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Hirsch View Post
For the international services, the best solution would be to turn over their operations to the neighboring companies (TCDD, BDZ, MZ) or better yet operate them in cooperation. If such a thing is possible in this part of the world, that is.
Most international trains in Europe are run on a co-operative basis anyway, and it's normal to see carriages from different countries coupled together. Locomotives are changed at border crossings. Don't Greek international services work this way?
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Old December 28th, 2010, 04:20 PM   #371
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That is exactly how things work so far, the classic European way of doing it. What could be done now in the brave new world of EU capitalism is for example
1.) TCDD could decide to keep operating the Philia (Constantinople - Salonica) train running at its own expense, just pay a fee to Greece for using rail infrastructure and operate on Greek soil without real involvement by OSE.

2.) Greece could offer operations of Eidomeni - Salonica to MZ, as the line is too short to be operated by itself, but would make sense as part of Skopje - Salonica line.

3.) There could be a cross-border swap of rolling stock, for ex. SZ is out of operable locomotives while after the present cuts, there should be plenty of unemployed engines in Greece.

4.) Closed down lines could be offered by tender to the bidder who could operate them at the lowest price, i.e. with the least government subsidies.

All of this should be the norm according to EU laws, but it all allows for quite a bit of legislation and bureaucracy, which according to my knowledge has not happened yet in Greece (or many other member countries). Also private of foreign companies on Greek rails would probalby prompt protest as this would endanger the livelihood of many citizens. All of this would take a lot of energy, creativity, and flexibility the like of which we have not seen in this part of the world in recent decades.
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Old December 28th, 2010, 08:59 PM   #372
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@Gadiri: Thank you for your help, I believe that the problem has been corrected now.

Quote:
1.) TCDD could decide to keep operating the Philia (Constantinople - Salonica) train running at its own expense, just pay a fee to Greece for using rail infrastructure and operate on Greek soil without real involvement by OSE.

2.) Greece could offer operations of Eidomeni - Salonica to MZ, as the line is too short to be operated by itself, but would make sense as part of Skopje - Salonica line.

3.) There could be a cross-border swap of rolling stock, for ex. SZ is out of operable locomotives while after the present cuts, there should be plenty of unemployed engines in Greece.

4.) Closed down lines could be offered by tender to the bidder who could operate them at the lowest price, i.e. with the least government subsidies.
Most interesting ideas, but, as you said, they need to be "processed" before they can be implemented. Let's hope there will be margin for some hope...

Last edited by inhalealook; December 28th, 2010 at 10:39 PM.
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Old December 29th, 2010, 12:52 AM   #373
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Hirsch View Post
1.) TCDD could decide to keep operating the Philia (Constantinople - Salonica) train running at its own expense, just pay a fee to Greece for using rail infrastructure and operate on Greek soil without real involvement by OSE.
This is the "open access" mode of operation proposed by the EU. However, it
is very unlikely to happen, because:

1) Turkey is not part of the EU and therefore the Open Access regime is not
applicable to TCDD;
2) It would require TCDD locs certified for use on the OSE network. This could
only happen quickly if, as you mention, OSE agrees to sell parts of its own
unused rolling stock;
3) It would also require TCDD drivers knowing (and certified) all the OSE
rules book and signalling, and also with good command of the greek language.

All that can be put in place but it will not happen overnight. And in the
mean time, customers will learn how to make do without the trains. Not
a lot of customers will remain once all the required bits are in place to
re-open the service...
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Old December 31st, 2010, 08:55 PM   #374
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A progress update from the construction of the 4-track Piraeus-Athens-Acharnes Junction (SKA) corridor in the Ilion (Nea Liosia) urban area. On the right one semi-corridor (double-track) is compleated and operational (apart from electrification, but the catenary ecquipment is in place), with the tracks "submerged" into a tunnel. On the left, the other double-track semi-corridor and the Suburban Railway station "Pirgos Vasilissis" are under construction and well under way, to be completed in 2011.
Photo by Amnizia railfan forumer Fisherman


www.amnizia.com

Last edited by inhalealook; January 18th, 2011 at 02:01 AM.
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Old January 1st, 2011, 09:18 PM   #375
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Thank you! I've been trying to find more info and pictures regarding this project and modernisation of Athens main railway station, but this almost impossible when one doesn't speek Greek. Is there a official website or at least a blog about this project? I'd love to see a map and more info about it.
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Old January 11th, 2011, 01:19 AM   #376
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@ inhalealook

Please remove my embeded videos. I have disabled the embeding option from YouTube but you still embeding my videos here...

It's not the first time happening in that period...

My videos are... In the previous page that with the Desiros on the line to Kiato and on that page that in Tempi and that with the MAN DMU in Larisa.

You can put just the URLs NOT EMBEDING THE VIDEO as I don't want to.
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Old January 12th, 2011, 09:26 AM   #377
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panakosXX View Post
@ inhalealook

Please remove my embeded videos. I have disabled the embeding option from YouTube but you still embeding my videos here...

It's not the first time happening in that period...

My videos are... In the previous page that with the Desiros on the line to Kiato and on that page that in Tempi and that with the MAN DMU in Larisa.

You can put just the URLs NOT EMBEDING THE VIDEO as I don't want to.
If you have disabled the embedding feature on YouTube then the videos should simply show a link to your actual video on YouTube when anyone attempts to play them. The video above which you highlight (the Desiro video) simply shows for me that embedding is disabled and I got a direct link to your YouTube page meaning everyone else will too.
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Old January 18th, 2011, 01:19 AM   #378
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Some images of the current situation of the improvement works in the Athens Railway Station.
Views from the north entrance of the station. The new platforms are on the right. The infrastructure is almost ready, with shelters, elevators, escalators, tracks, illumination and electrification poles in place. The project is probably on hold for the moment, awaiting the resolution of the legal issues with the residents of the Sepolia urban area.

http://img249.imageshack.us/i/17012011009.jpg/
Some close-ups as well:


http://img440.imageshack.us/i/17012011010.jpg/
http://img251.imageshack.us/i/17012011012.jpg/

The project is obviously not ambitious from an architectual point of view. The main goal is only to improve somewhat the train traffic and passenger service in the Piraeus-Athens-SKA corridor and not, unfortunately, to create an urban landmark. Even so, it represents one of the important current OSE works in progress and should be presented here. We are looking forward to its completion...

@Bart LCY: The only official site with information regarding railway infrastructure works in Greece is the site of ERGOSE, the OSE subsidary handling construction. I don't know if you 'll find it helpfull:
http://www.ergose.gr/ergosesite/main...UAGE=2&REFCI=0 (in English).
There are many railfan sites as well.

@panakosXX: Your videos have been removed as you requested.

Last edited by inhalealook; January 21st, 2011 at 02:07 AM.
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Old January 18th, 2011, 03:34 PM   #379
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Hello Greek rail fanatics,
despite the scary news that all international trains to Greece would stop running, the Phila Express (Constantinople - Salonica) is still running here at Constantinople, and reports from Beograd and Sofia report that all or some trains are still running from there to Salonica as well.
What is the situation now? Has there been an official statement on the continuation of the trains? And what has happened to the local Greek trains that were supposed to be cancelled? Are they also still running?
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Old January 18th, 2011, 05:44 PM   #380
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According to (unofficial) information from the TRAINOSE Facebook profile, the date of suspension of the international and local trains has been pushed back to next Friday, 21/01/2011, when new decisions are expected. Probably there is a lot of debate and internal OSE "turmoil" going on at the moment. The new ticket price policy has not been implemented yet either. Passengers-residents, railfans, local authorities etc in some cases are considering legal action against the Greek Railways if the services are actually discontinued.
In the meanwhile, the public continues to support the railway, using the services that, according to the TRAINOSE official announcement in December, should have already been suspended from 1/1/2011:

Passengers in Thessaloniki Railway Station, ready to board local train 753 to Florina. The trainset is a double MAN 2000 DMU2. Two DMUs had to be used to meet with increased passenger demand. TRAINOSE was planning to suspend the Thessaloniki-Florina service since 1/1/11, but as of today 18/1/11 the services are still running and continue to appear in the TRAINOSE website, in the iteneraries search page: http://tickets.trainose.gr/dromologia/#
Photo was taken two days ago by railfan and TRAINOSE Facebook profile member Akis Dionisis:



http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/8...9279498810.jpg

Passengers in Kalambaka station, waiting for the arrival of the local train to Larisa, with the spectacular Meteora mountains in the background. TRAINOSE was planning to suspend this service since 1/1/11 too, but as of today 18/1/11 the services are still running and also continue to appear in the TRAINOSE website, in the iteneraries search page. Photo taken a few days ago by railfan and TRAINOSE Facebook profile member Kostas Giann:



http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/1...1950361416.jpg

Last edited by inhalealook; January 21st, 2011 at 12:22 AM.
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