daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old March 15th, 2011, 06:15 PM   #401
Baron Hirsch
Kara Tren Solcusu
 
Baron Hirsch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Berlin/Istanbul
Posts: 1,337
Likes (Received): 475

People, suburbanist runs through the railways threads and tries to provoke trainlovers where he can with neoliberal argumentation. Do not fall for it!
Honestly, suburbanist, in the case of Greece, I believe you are out of your depth. Your argumentation works according to the assumption that there is a level playing field where like in a supermarket, consumers can come and choose the noodles they find most beautiful, tasty and well priced. These level playing fields however hardly ever apply for transport; there are always public decisions involved to give preferable treatment to one mode versus another, or bigger players exacting pressure on the weaker ones to clear the field. This is most certainly the case in Greece: railway infrastructure, until the recent begin of redevelopment along the Patras - Thessaloniki corridor, had seen decades of neglect. Unlike Turkey, this was not matched by a development of efficient and effective bus companies. Instead bus companies were bound together in a cartel not allowing for competition (and thus until today bus services are sparse, busses old and crappy and they treat their customers like dirt). However the cartel is an efficient organization to keep competition down, not only through new bus operators but also by rail. Sabotage, outrageous court decisions and lobbying proved to ruin the last advantages OSE had. As a consequence even where it makes sense to take the train, i.e. Athens - Thessaloniki, there are few services, and they are slower than necessary.
As a result OSE became an organization that was more attuned to catering to its employees than to providing public services. Of course this happened in many countries, but there are ways of acting against such a state of being. The Turkish government is presently acting against this development by investing billions into rail infrastructure and the company, introducing new standards of service, cleanliness and information, and by momentarily tipping the scales of competition in favor of the railways (i.e. opting for budget train fares). It aims to cover the railway company deficit until competitive standards can be attained by Turkish Railways. Then, when a somewhat level playing field is attained, it will expect profits from TCDD and open the infrastructure to private operators.
__________________

Giorgio liked this post
Baron Hirsch no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old March 15th, 2011, 06:21 PM   #402
sidney_jec
Complex Equation
 
sidney_jec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,085

I like graffiti but on the trains it looks plain ugly
__________________
ye bik gayi hai gormint

PS: Lord Murugan never deleted signatures. Never
sidney_jec no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 15th, 2011, 06:52 PM   #403
Alseimik
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Copenhagen
Posts: 250
Likes (Received): 16

I'm really impressed of these upgrades, especially because I hear a lot of bad news on your economy here in Denmark.

But the Larissa station, the curves looks really sharp, even for a suburb, what is the speed limit on these lines?
Alseimik no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 16th, 2011, 03:30 AM   #404
Almopos
Pacta sunt servanda
 
Almopos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Londinium
Posts: 2,803
Likes (Received): 2563

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagleg View Post
Hello to everyone,

I've been following this thread for some time now but this is my first time posting. I am really interested in the modernisation works of the railway system and would like to contribute to this thread which is a very good source of information concerning these works.
Welcome Eagleg. Thank you for posting pictures of the works around Larissa station. Keep on the good work.
Almopos no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 16th, 2011, 04:34 AM   #405
hoosier
Registered User
 
hoosier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 2,446
Likes (Received): 58

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Rail fascism leads nowhere in real life.

If you read carefully, I am NOT suggesting closing the tracks, just having the government off the business of running trains. If we were to compare with roads, it would be like I arguing to gov't shutting down bus routes and retiring vehicles from service, not closing the highways themselves!!! If I were arguing about air transport, it would be like saying a state-owned airline should be sold off and routes cut, not that airports should be shut down.

There is a difference between infrastructure and operation. You keep the infrastructure opens because that is, usually, a public service government should be in charge of. However, operating vehicles, setting schedules, hiring drivers/pilots/engineers/conductors and, gosh, ticket clerks, is a matter of private business, and Greece is learning, the very hard way unfortunately, how excessive government intervention and overgrown bureaucracies can bring a country to a serious crisis.
Greece's rail subsidies are not the cause of their debt problem. Cutting transportation services will only harm the economy and increase congestion on roads, which I suppose is a good thing in your opinion.
__________________
R.I.P. Moke- my best bud
hoosier no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 16th, 2011, 11:39 AM   #406
Aggelos
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Patras
Posts: 475
Likes (Received): 2

video from stadia gr forum pindos10
of the last metric train of the Peloponnese passing through the Isthmus canal....
the goverment shuts down all the metric railways of Peloponnese-oficcial name of the company SPAP-because of the economic crisis and the IMF orders ,to save money etc..

Railways are the veins of economic growth,and surely can be used in many ways ,,not just shut down..

the same metric railway near Patra is used now very successfully as a suburban train..
Thats not the solution,,scrap everything..
Aggelos no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 16th, 2011, 01:17 PM   #407
KONSTANTINOUPOLIS
Ομόθρησκον
 
KONSTANTINOUPOLIS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Ελλάς
Posts: 4,662

__________________
ΡΕΘΥΜΝΟ - RETHYMNON

"Τό στάδιον τῶν ἀρετῶν ἠνέωκται, οἱ βουλόμενοι ἀθλῆσαι εἰσέλθετε.
"


† ΙΧΘΥΣ



KONSTANTINOUPOLIS no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 18th, 2011, 07:26 AM   #408
European1978
WARNED FOR BANNING
 
European1978's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,270
Likes (Received): 62

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Hirsch View Post
Hello Greek rail fanatics,
despite the scary news that all international trains to Greece would stop running, the Phila Express (Constantinople - Salonica) is still running here at Constantinople, and reports from Beograd and Sofia report that all or some trains are still running from there to Salonica as well.
What is the situation now? Has there been an official statement on the continuation of the trains? And what has happened to the local Greek trains that were supposed to be cancelled? Are they also still running?
Hi,
I was in Thessaloniki a couple of weeks ago,
it was a disaster, I was stuck for 48 hours there as they had no trains to any international destination (read Skopje where I had to travel to) and Sofia. The reception at the hotel called the station to check why there were no trains and apparently no one knew if and when they will be operating again. They suggested us to take a Taxi to the Macedonian border and from there walk across the boder and catch a train to Skopje. Eventually we found a Bulgarian bus company which took us to Sofia, having to skip Skopje in our interrail. I was utterly shocked by the situation in Greece, I traveled in 34 countries (even out of Europe) and it never happened to me to find myself stuck in a place without any immediate solution... This situation will damage Greece tourism terribly. I don't intend to go back to Greece for a long time after that experience...
__________________
HONG KONG SKYLINE
European1978 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 18th, 2011, 11:02 AM   #409
intelligentBG
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 443
Likes (Received): 83

Well, welcome to the Balkans... This is the reality here. As you see above people here are very disappointed with the current situation with Greek railways. Although it is not as bad as it sounds for the tourists. In fact I think you just had bad chance. There are efficient bus service between Thessaloniki and Bulgaria, and hope you enjoyed it.
But here on the Balkans the information is not efficient and one individual could not know all possibilities for travelling without contacting locals. That habit (to ask others how to get one place) I do not like most here.
locals
intelligentBG no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 18th, 2011, 11:32 AM   #410
Baron Hirsch
Kara Tren Solcusu
 
Baron Hirsch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Berlin/Istanbul
Posts: 1,337
Likes (Received): 475

Sorry to hear that, European, but had you read this one more update post before, rahter than the one you quoted, you should have seen this coming. i had kept seat61.com, the number one website for international train travellers, informed on the development too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Hirsch View Post
Thanks for the clean sweap, dear editors!
Back to topic: the Turkish Railways website announced today that the Salonica - Constantinople Philia-Express will be cancelled as of 13 February. I suspect this the other international trains from Salonica will be cancelled simultaneously. In effect it seems Greece will restrict itself to running local trains out of Salonica, Athens and Patras and someday maybe the occasional, artifically slow train between those three cities, but not more than would offend the bus mafia. This is truly sad. I hope someday somewhere somebody will reverse the process, but am not very optimistic.
Intelli, busses are fairly frequent for Sofia and for Istanbul from Thessaloniki (although the later is so long it is quite a pain), busses between Skopia and Solun are still very few. Probably the taxi+walk+local train connection is really the best you can do on that route.

Last edited by Baron Hirsch; March 18th, 2011 at 11:43 AM.
Baron Hirsch no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 18th, 2011, 12:04 PM   #411
ovem
Commieblocks fan
 
ovem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 6,824
Likes (Received): 885

Quote:
Originally Posted by European1978 View Post
Hi,
I was in Thessaloniki a couple of weeks ago,
it was a disaster, I was stuck for 48 hours there as they had no trains to any international destination (read Skopje where I had to travel to) and Sofia. The reception at the hotel called the station to check why there were no trains and apparently no one knew if and when they will be operating again. They suggested us to take a Taxi to the Macedonian border and from there walk across the boder and catch a train to Skopje. Eventually we found a Bulgarian bus company which took us to Sofia, having to skip Skopje in our interrail. I was utterly shocked by the situation in Greece, I traveled in 34 countries (even out of Europe) and it never happened to me to find myself stuck in a place without any immediate solution... This situation will damage Greece tourism terribly. I don't intend to go back to Greece for a long time after that experience...
You should check before trying to travel by train. There's plenty of bus companies traveling all over the Balkans, to Tirana, Sofia, Skopje, Bucuresti, Budapest, even Poland.
__________________
My tumblr
ovem no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 18th, 2011, 12:17 PM   #412
intelligentBG
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 443
Likes (Received): 83

Intelli, busses are fairly frequent for Sofia and for Istanbul from Thessaloniki (although the later is so long it is quite a pain), busses between Skopia and Solun are still very few. Probably the taxi+walk+local train connection is really the best you can do on that route.[/QUOTE]


Baron Hirsh, you are so genial as always. I suppose you just try to mention that there no rail connection between Bulgaria and Skopje. And this fact is very disappointing. But in any case, the best no-direct connection between Thessaloniki and Skopje is by bus to every Bulgarian city (Sandanski, Blagoevgrad or Sofia for example) and there you can find bus service for Skopje.
But i am sure there are very good direct bus connection Thessaloniki - Skopje
intelligentBG no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 18th, 2011, 06:06 PM   #413
European1978
WARNED FOR BANNING
 
European1978's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,270
Likes (Received): 62

Quote:
Originally Posted by ovem View Post
You should check before trying to travel by train. There's plenty of bus companies traveling all over the Balkans, to Tirana, Sofia, Skopje, Bucuresti, Budapest, even Poland.

hmmm,
I do always check before traveling, and as a matter of fact they even said today the train is on time, that's the same I read when I checked for mine..
http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/que...rture&OK#focus I wrote to the DB international to change the schedule and inform people and they replied they take their info from the Greek company:

Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 4:35 PM
Subject: AW: Thessaloniki - Sofia - Skopje
Sehr geehrter Herr Villa,
vielen Dank für Ihre E-Mail.
Vielen Dank für dem Hinweis, jedoch können wir online immer nur die Fahrplaninfos einbinden die uns die betreffenden Fremdbetreiber zuliefern.
Wir bitten Sie hierfür um Ihr Verständnis.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Ihr Service-Team von www.bahn.de


Either way, the trains in the whole of the Balkans were punctual
Sofia - Nis - Nis - Belgrade - Belgrade- Timisoara - Timisoara Budpest.
I am very capable to plan my journeys as I am well experienced, that's why I managed to find alone the info of the Bulgarian bus to Sofia, but no information was available at the time I bought the interrail, in the interrail greece map they quote
International connections

so when I double checked on the interrail website and the Greek one:
http://www.trainose.gr/en where there is nothing mentioned, there was nothing I could have known in advance! If that would have been the case, I would have never gone to Greece.

_________FROM TRAINOSA____

TRAINOSE operates daily trains to Macedonia (FYROM), Serbia, Bulgaria, Romania and Turkey. You can travel from Thessaloniki to Skopje and Belgrade (two return services), Sofia (three return services), Istanbul (one return service) and Bucharest (one return service).
http://www.interrailnet.com/countrie...e-train-travel

Experience another Europe through TRAINOSE routes, rail networks in Europe and our bus connections to the outside.
http://www.trainose.gr/en/travel/abroad
Βιώστε μια άλλη Ευρώπη μέσα από τα δρομολόγια της ΤΡΑΙΝΟΣΕ, τα σιδηροδρομικά δίκτυα της Ευρώπης και τις λεωφορειακές μας συνδέσεις με το εξωτερικό.

Προορισμοί

Με τους Ευρωπαϊκους σιδηροδρόμους

Συνδυασμένες μεταφορές τρένο - πλοίο
____________________________________________________________________


In the Greek Station the employees were uninformed and rude, they sent us to an information office which was actually the tourist police office of thessaloniki and they did not know to be there for tourist information and did not know the trains did not travel abroad. They were also pretty rude and we gave up, they left tourists to themselves. If that is the way in Greece things work, Greece will lose tourists. In all the other countries in the Balkan there was no issue except for no heating in some trains and no water/light in others, but they did travel pretty much on time and people at the station were helpful and most of the time nice. That's my experience.
__________________
HONG KONG SKYLINE

Last edited by European1978; March 18th, 2011 at 06:21 PM.
European1978 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 18th, 2011, 06:14 PM   #414
nastyathenian
Metrophile
 
nastyathenian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Athens
Posts: 2,630
Likes (Received): 709

Quote:
Originally Posted by European1978 View Post
Hi,
I don't intend to go back to Greece for a long time after that experience...
I suppose you' ll never visit Cyprus, Malta or Iceland, since they have no railway at all.
nastyathenian no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 18th, 2011, 06:26 PM   #415
European1978
WARNED FOR BANNING
 
European1978's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,270
Likes (Received): 62

Quote:
Originally Posted by nastyathenian View Post
I suppose you' ll never visit Cyprus, Malta or Iceland, since they have no railway at all.
I most certainly will, you do not need trains to go abroad from there...Also they don't say they have international trains when they don´t
I paid for the journeys in my 369 euro worth interrail pass, and Greece got a part of that money being in the interrail group, even if they did not have trains and I had to buy a ticket out of the interrail program which cost me extra money for a service which I had in fact already paid for...
__________________
HONG KONG SKYLINE
European1978 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 18th, 2011, 07:02 PM   #416
nastyathenian
Metrophile
 
nastyathenian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Athens
Posts: 2,630
Likes (Received): 709

You have to visualize Greece as an island, that can be reached either by air or by ferry-boat (from Italy). Before the war in Yugoslavia, there was a very useful road and rail connection through that country. After the war ended, people who used to travel through Yugoslavia had already found alternative routes and they were reluctant to leave them and go back to a journey that included now 5 customs offices instead of 2!
So, next time you come to Greece, it might be better to join a package tour. You' ll see much more without worrying about train schedules.
Even better would be to find a Greek boy/girl friend with a car.

Last edited by nastyathenian; March 18th, 2011 at 07:08 PM.
nastyathenian no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 19th, 2011, 01:02 AM   #417
sekelsenmat
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,139
Likes (Received): 50

Quote:
Originally Posted by European1978 View Post
I most certainly will, you do not need trains to go abroad from there...Also they don't say they have international trains when they don´t
I paid for the journeys in my 369 euro worth interrail pass, and Greece got a part of that money being in the interrail group, even if they did not have trains and I had to buy a ticket out of the interrail program which cost me extra money for a service which I had in fact already paid for...
The problem here is that the aniquilation of greek international train connections is a new fact. They were stopped this year. Apparently many places haven't yet updated their information. You just got unliky to be travelling after this change.

I suppose that greece will be removed from the interrail pass and loose many tourists this way.
__________________
True Democracy for Android - A realistic political simulation game where you are the premier/president and guides your country competing against other political parties =)

My blog about trains, politics and urbanism.
sekelsenmat no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 19th, 2011, 04:51 AM   #418
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,532
Likes (Received): 21237

I doubt. They still offer domestic trains. Finland doesn't have any rail connection with Sweden or Norway but it still part of the are of that useless pass.

I don't see why Interrail passes should keep existing anyway.
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 19th, 2011, 06:33 AM   #419
Stainless
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Pyeongnae
Posts: 420
Likes (Received): 34

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I doubt. They still offer domestic trains. Finland doesn't have any rail connection with Sweden or Norway but it still part of the are of that useless pass.

I don't see why Interrail passes should keep existing anyway.
You can use the ferry from Stockholm to Turku using the pass. Also the pass is not useless as thousands of people if not millions use it every year. It is so easy and having the freedom to use any train (well almost any) is a good travelling experience. Unfortunately it doesn't fit into your ideals of everyone knowing what they are doing well in advance and purchasing a ticket that ties them to a schedule.
Stainless no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 19th, 2011, 10:06 AM   #420
Alseimik
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Copenhagen
Posts: 250
Likes (Received): 16

Haven't read the thread, but for interrail, I been on it, and planning to do again, and i know a lot of young people here in Denmark, who's been on interrail. And i believe it would be a mistake for greece to sign out of the interrail, there's a lot of tourist you will miss there. And close the whole system wouldn't be possible, not in any way, is far too well used!
Alseimik no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:20 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium