Philippine Defense Forces

[Animo]

By KATHERINE ADRANEDA
The Philippine Star

Activists are hoping that the writ of amparo will deliver justice to their colleagues who are victims of what they believe are state-sanctioned abductions and executions.

The Supreme Court (SC) is expected to release the writ’s final version next month.

The introduction of the writ of amparo into the country’s legal system was a result of the SC-initiated summit on the unexplained killings.

The writ of amparo aims to give more protection to the constitutional rights of a person since the petition for habeas corpus has been considered “weak” in compelling the state to produce persons thought to be victims of enforced disappearances.

The writ of amparo was first adopted in Mexico in 1857. Amparo is a Spanish word that literally means “protection.”

“We welcome this new development,” said Rafael Mariano, chairman of the Kilusang Magbubukid ng Pilipinas (KMP) and concurrent president of the Anakpawis party-list group.

“We just hope that it can deliver justice to our comrades who have become victims of enforced disappearances and extrajudicial executions by government forces. The military establishment can no longer just deny any involvement in these cases and get away with it. Justice must be served,” he added.

Chief Justice Reynato Puno has explained that through the writ of amparo, the military will not be able to evade culpability for unexplained killings and forced disappearances by merely denying that it is holding in custody missing or disappeared persons.

Puno said the writ would strip the military of such a defense.

He explained that families of victims would also be given the right to access information relevant to their cases. This constitutional right is called the “habeas data,” which is said to be common in several countries in Latin America.

Militants expressed support for Puno’s suggestion that the writ of amparo be made retroactive.

However, they urged the SC to, at the very least, include cases of enforced disappearances and political killings from 2001 or when President Arroyo assumed office.

“We have high hopes for the writ of amparo but we know that government forces will try other means to circumvent the law and attack us,” Mariano said.

“So even with the writ our vigilance must always be high and our resolve to work for justice and real democracy continue to be strong because in the end it’s the militancy of the mass movement and the awakened people which is decisive in safeguarding our rights,” he added.

The KMP claimed that more than half of all the victims of political killings and abductions in the country are peasants, and their members.

Human rights groups estimated that the number of victims of political killings and abductions by alleged agents of the state have already reached more than 800.

Militants consider the writ of amparo as “another weapon” to defend civil liberties and democratic rights amid the implementation of the Human Security Act, or anti-terror law.

They believe that the writ could also be used to guard against human rights abuses.

Puno said agents of governments will be ordered by the court to locate the alleged victims, and the court will closely monitor their movement.

“We will set up a standard for them (government agents) to follow. And if they cannot come up or satisfy this standard, then there would be proper relieves that can be granted by the court,” Puno said.

Puno was the guest of honor and speaker during the ninth anniversary of the Volunteers Against Crime and Corruption (VACC) at the Philippine National Police (PNP) headquarters at Camp Crame in Quezon City last Friday.

“We already have the first draft of the writ of amparo. We hope to finish this by next month,” Puno said.

“In a lot of instances, they are able to get away with it,” he said. “In other words, if you have this right, it would be very, very difficult for state agents and state authorities to be able to escape from their culpability.”

Puno was apparently referring to the case of Jonas Burgos, who has remained missing since his reported abduction last April 28.

His mother petitioned for a writ of habeas corpus before the court but the military maintained that the son of press freedom icon Joe Burgos was not in its custody.

Puno said whether the new rule can be retroactive would be subject to the approval of the members of the court. “But there is no legal impediment to making the new rule retroactive. Remedial measures, as a general proposition, can be made retroactive without violating any constitutional provision,” he said. – With Cecille Suerte Felipe

http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/storypage.aspx?StoryId=89030

[lochinvar]

"How about the US, British, Australian armed forces? Do you think RP military gained their respect after those failures in Basilan?"


During the American Civil War, General Pickett's entire division was totally annihilated. Yet after the war, he was offered by the Khedive of Egypt to train the latter's army.

In another case, China tried to teach Vietnam a lesson. In the end, the teachers came back limping and badly defeated.

[zeejay]

Originally Posted by tigs

ayan ba yung mga namatay na katatapos lans sa PMA
mga engot kasi satin alam na ngang katatapos lang sa eskwela pinangbabakbak agad.

The Marine officers who were killed last Saturday were not fresh graduates from the Philippine Military Academy. The news reporters did not even bother to check the accuracy of their report. Four of the fallen Marine officers are members of the PMA Mandala Class of 2006 and the other one 2Lt. Salvador is a member of the PMA Sanlingan Class of 2005. They have graduated from the academy and as part of further training in their branch of service, they undergo series of trainings. Of course they have already finished the Basic Marine Officers Course. What happened last Saturday was a test mission, to which they are aided by regular Force Recon companies. Unfortunately, the officers and their men died in the encounter with the ASG.

[TheAvenger]

Originally Posted by Animo

This is actually quite false. Manila may have been a moslem settlement but it was not fully establish like the Sultanates of Jolo and Maguindanao of Mindanao. We were never fully a nation before the arrival of the Spaniards because we did not belong in an ideology of: "one race, one nation, one faith". We belong in different warring nations that have territorial conflicts like other imperial nations. Most of the people in pre-hispanic Philippines were pagans. Islam and Christianity are both conquerors.

Let us compare the Bisayans who were famous for their tattoos - called by the Spanish as "Pintados" and they ranged far and wide to capture slaves either to serve in their households or to serve as sacrificial victims when a nobleman died. This was noted by the Jesuit Ignacio Alcina (1668), who lived among the Visayans, mentions that a major test for a man was to roam as far as China hunting for people to capture.

However, the greater portion of Mindanao has always been Bisaya even before hispanization. The Spanish even recorded that the inhabitants of Northern Mindanao calls themselves "Bisayans". That is why in Mindanao our language is called "Bisaya" although its rightfull term would be "Cebuano". Christian Filipinos have already existed even long before the American era.

But I agree with you that a massive influx of Christian settlers did arrive in Mindanao during the Commonwealth period. You can see the names of the places in the island and very little are of Arabic in orgin.

This is actually quite false. Manila may have been a moslem settlement but it was not fully establish like the Sultanates of Jolo and Maguindanao of Mindanao. We were never fully a nation before the arrival of the Spaniards because we did not belong in an ideology of: "one race, one nation, one faith". We belong in different warring nations that have territorial conflicts like other imperial nations. Most of the people in pre-hispanic Philippines were pagans. Islam and Christianity are both conquerors

in that case we can say Manila, cetral luzon, southern luzon , and other part of luzon was a part of the Sultanatte of Sulu, therefore we belong to their Bangsa Moro Nation.

so they can not just separate and declare a separate nation, since the Sultanatte of Sulu and the moslem settlement of Manila including other Luzon provinces was a part of the Bangsa Moro nation which have one one race, one nation, and one faith, before the Spaniards arrived in our shore.

don't tell me that you are infavor of letting them separate. anyhow I don't expect too much from the foreign-born Pinoy or Pinoy with foreign citizenship to be as nationalistic as we are the native born Pinoy.

according to Bush statement :
" If you are not with us.... then you are against us "


However, the greater portion of Mindanao has always been Bisaya even before hispanization. The Spanish even recorded that the inhabitants of Northern Mindanao calls themselves "Bisayans". That is why in Mindanao our language is called "Bisaya" although its rightfull term would be "Cebuano". Christian Filipinos have already existed even long before the American era.

the above statement is another proof that our brother Muslims cannot just separate even the western part of Mindanap from us, for their dreams of an Islamic Republic.

[tigidig14]

dapat ine-air recon/raid tapos bagsakan lahat ng bomba
kahit hindi fair

[TheAvenger]

@lochinvar and

Originally Posted by Lucentino

How about the US, British, Australian armed forces? Do you think RP military gained their respect after those failures in Basilan?

With the world watching the developments in Sulu archipelago, does it prove to the world that our Military officers are good tacticians? That they can get the job done --- with limited resources, the objectives can be achieved, but at a high price?

Does the Filipino populace accept this war? Does it ignite their patriotic fire? Does the populace know that RP military is hadicapped with equipment?

What are the use of those Politician's and General's/Admiral's mansions and luxury vehicles in contributing to the cause of this war? Will the cars serve as ambulance and the mansions as refuge to the displaced families?

My salute to those brave soldiers --- I hope they could come back to their families after finishing off their mission.

But do you think at that point in time the military already have the right equipment to be able to take back Sabah?

How about the US, British, Australian armed forces? Do you think RP military gained their respect after those failures in Basilan?

Who cares about them, the Americans and the Australians lost the guerilla war in Vietnam. The British not even win the guerillar war in Northern Ireland against the IRA, though they used modern weapons and equipments. So they settled for a peace agreement with the IRA. Those 3 nations were good in conventional warfare but not in guerrila warfares.

Perhaps we should invite them to do the combat duty in Basilan and Sulu without using their heavy bombers and jetplanes, and let's see if they can last for a year.


With the world watching the developments in Sulu archipelago, does it prove to the world that our Military officers are good tacticians? That they can get the job done --- with limited resources, the objectives can be achieved, but at a high price?

who cares what will they say... we cannot do anything if we will always think of what the world will say.


Does the Filipino populace accept this war? Does it ignite their patriotic fire? Does the populace know that RP military is hadicapped with equipment?

whether we accept or not our country's policy there is no other way but support our soldier in the battlefield since they sacrifice their lives for the territorial integrity of our nation.

Everybody knows our military is handicapped with equipments but that is the best quality of Filipinos can manage to do something in time of distress. I also noticed that when sailing around the world with Filipiino crew, in time of distress you can rely on them especially we are on the same boat.

I even believe that the NPA should make a unilateral ceasefire so that
some of our soldiers can be redeployed to the battlefields in the south. I reckoned some members of the extreme Left were unwise in their dogmatic views. How can they reform our country when and if the country disintegrated because of the moro rebellion, they got no more unified country to reform.

But do you think at that point in time the military already have the right equipment to be able to take back Sabah

Well the Vietnamese guerillas fought with crude military equipment the American forces and they won the Vietnam War. The Paris Treaty between the USSR, Vietnam, and the US was just a face saving measures for the Americans to withdraw quietly.

In Sabah we just needed the unity of Muslims and Christians populations and we can launch a guerilla warfare, with MNLF, MILF and even the Abu Sayaff integrated in our armed forces. Actually some MNLF guerillas were already intergrated in our Armed Forces since about 10 years ago, and some of them were in those AFP troops that fought the Abu Sayaff in Sulu.

Not possible to even think of a conventional warfare against the combined Malaysia, British, and Australian forces ( they have the British Commonwealth Defense Treaty) even if we have modern war equipments. Malaysia has a defense agreement with Australia and UK, so even if UK just sent one of their Aircraft Carrier near Sabah and the Australians even one of their biggest Naval vessel, our Tora Tora Planes and Vietnam-era helicopters will be a real " sitting duck " for them.

Our small vietnam-era Naval crafts and MNLF/MILF/Abu Sayaff kumpits can transport our commandos and volunteers at night to land in Sabah. Then regular troops can follow. In the shallow waters off Eastern coast of Sabah, the big warship of the British Navy cannot operate. In these kind of war with the Philippines and Malaysia, I think Australia will chose a passive role but the Brits we cannot be sure.

Once we regain Sabah through guerilla warfare then we are the de facto government there, and the UN will just agree to recognize it. Possession of the land is 90 percent of the law.

masama bang mangarap ?

[lochinvar]

The Sultan of Sulu lost Sabah to the British, not the Philippine government. He was foolish enough to enter into an agreement with the British without knowing the mechanics of contracts. He was swindled. Don't expect the common mass to shoulder the mistake of his buffonery.

[Lucentino]

Originally Posted by TheAvenger

---

Who cares about them, the Americans and the Australians lost the guerilla war in Vietnam.

---

who cares what will they say... we cannot do anything if we will always think of what the world will say.

---

To gain respect, a person or a group should show that they are respectable.

Anyway, seems like the war planners there cannot create a good strategy to lessen casualties... Or do they really want it that way, so that the populace would side with them to justify this war (which costs taxpayers their hard earned money).

And where are the refurbished attack helo's when we need them? Is it feasible to lease two (2) units of Apaches (including pilots), with night capability, for a week to obliterate the enemy's camps? Perhaps use of drones before attacking would have minimized casualties to the military. One marine officer was interviewed on tv and said they didn't know the terrain very well... sir, did you plan your attack or were you brought in there as tourists? I admire your guts to go to war unprepared...

IMO: The money spent for the burial and other expenses for the marines killed in action (I believe its more or less Php15M or $310,000), could have been used to lease drones and other equipment which could have lessen, if not, eliminated military casualties...

The recent Israeli bombing of southern Lebanon, and Army assaults (with MBT's and heavy artillery) to clear the area of Hamas(?) was a real show of force, with drones checking out the enemy and terrain before they attacked. I just dont know how many casualties there were on the Israel army and civilians... There were cassualties, but Hamas(?) are better equipped than Abu Sayyaf...

peace

[TheAvenger]

Originally Posted by lochinvar

The Sultan of Sulu lost Sabah to the British, not the Philippine government. He was foolish enough to enter into an agreement with the British without knowing the mechanics of contracts. He was swindled. Don't expect the common mass to shoulder the mistake of his buffonery.

whatever mistakes the Sultan makes.......... if we have Sabah..even if the Sultan will own the public lands.... the billions of Dollars our government can get from Oil revenues is enough to cover all the sacrfices our common masses may do.

and how about the Oil royalties which the Sulu Sultanatte will share to our government treasury.... and then the mines and loggings in the near-virgin forest of Sabah. WOW

Those revenues will make a big differences in our country especially for the region of Sulu, Basilan and Mindanao. Then we can be a strong Republic or a strong Federal Republic. And we may even became a regional power in Southeast Asia. A strong Economy which will result from the Oil revenues, a big population, with a strong Armed Forces.... WOW

Even if 20 percents from these expected Oil and natural resources revenues, were allocated for Luzon and Visayas, it is more than winning the Lotto.

Of course... in these ventures .... some lives maybe lost.....and more heroes will emerge.

[TheAvenger]

Originally Posted by Lucentino

To gain respect, a person or a group should show that they are respectable.

Anyway, seems like the war planners there cannot create a good strategy to lessen casualties... Or do they really want it that way, so that the populace would side with them to justify this war (which costs taxpayers their hard earned money).

And where are the refurbished attack helo's when we need them? Is it feasible to lease two (2) units of Apaches (including pilots), with night capability, for a week to obliterate the enemy's camps? Perhaps use of drones before attacking would have minimized casualties to the military. One marine officer was interviewed on tv and said they didn't know the terrain very well... sir, did you plan your attack or were you brought in there as tourists? I admire your guts to go to war unprepared...

IMO: The money spent for the burial and other expenses for the marines killed in action (I believe its more or less Php15M or $310,000), could have been used to lease drones and other equipment which could have lessen, if not, eliminated military casualties...

The recent Israeli bombing of southern Lebanon, and Army assaults (with MBT's and heavy artillery) to clear the area of Hamas(?) was a real show of force, with drones checking out the enemy and terrain before they attacked. I just dont know how many casualties there were on the Israel army and civilians... There were cassualties, but Hamas(?) are better equipped than Abu Sayyaf...

peace

i reckoned we cannot say they make a bad or good stratergy... we are not there. we can just comment on things we know little.....since we don't know the real combat situation. About casualtie ... I guess they American forces in Iraq have more casualties..... with all their modern equipments.

the money spent in burials and etc is worth more than the actual amount since it will boast the morale of our troops.

it is much better if you will say that those money kept by corrupt politicians, their commissions and percentages in government projects, those unaccounted Portk barrelas of the Congressmen and Senators, the millions of pesos stolen by Joke Joke Bolante, etc could have been used to lease drones and other equipment which could have lessen, if not, eliminated military casualties...
.

[bitoy]

Originally Posted by TheAvenger

whatever mistakes the Sultan makes.......... if we have Sabah..even if the Sultan will own the public lands.... the billions of Dollars our government can get from Oil revenues is enough to cover all the sacrfices our common masses may do.

and how about the Oil royalties which the Sulu Sultanatte will share to our government treasury.... and then the mines and loggings in the near-virgin forest of Sabah. WOW

Those revenues will make a big differences in our country especially for the region of Sulu, Basilan and Mindanao. Then we can be a strong Republic or a strong Federal Republic. And we may even became a regional power in Southeast Asia. A strong Economy which will result from the Oil revenues, a big population, with a strong Armed Forces.... WOW

Even if 20 percents from these expected Oil and natural resources revenues, were allocated for Luzon and Visayas, it is more than winning the Lotto.

Of course... in these ventures .... some lives maybe lost.....and more heroes will emerge.

With the way The Philippine Military and Government officials are acting, the people of Sabah would fight to their death in case the Philippine government would stake a claim on their land.

[beads_strawberries]

Some of our young officers have sacrificed their lives in line with their duty to protect the people and the State. It's not a easy task. The bereaved families also manifested bravery despite what happened.

It seems the only way to stop this mess is to dissolve the rebels. We cannot demarcate among the terrorists and the rebels, simply because they are helping each other. It looks like there's no other way but to stop those peace negotiations with the MILF.

[Lucentino]

Originally Posted by TheAvenger

i reckoned we cannot say they make a bad or good stratergy... we are not there. we can just comment on things we know little.....since we don't know the real combat situation. About casualtie ... I guess they American forces in Iraq have more casualties..... with all their modern equipments.

It is evident the planners are doing a lousy job. How come one of the officers would point out that they didn't know the terrain very well and use it as reason why there are a lot of casualties on their part --- proper planning and use of modern equipment should have helped minimize loses. Baka nasa abroad na ang magagaling na military planners natin...

Originally Posted by TheAvenger

the money spent in burials and etc is worth more than the actual amount since it will boast the morale of our troops.
.

The soldiers morale gets a boost because they know when they get killed the government would give their widows money and they will get full military honors? I thought they are fighting for love of country and not for the money... Pardon me but I didn't get it, unless your post has a different meaning...

Originally Posted by TheAvenger

it is much better if you will say that those money kept by corrupt politicians, their commissions and percentages in government projects, those unaccounted Portk barrelas of the Congressmen and Senators, the millions of pesos stolen by Joke Joke Bolante, etc could have been used to lease drones and other equipment which could have lessen, if not, eliminated military casualties...
.

What I wanted to imply is that the Php15M +/- that the government had beforehand should have been used to lease modern equipment. Then the soldier get accustomed to the terrain and casualties could have been lessened or eliminated. Drones could've taken pics of the terrain, bunker possitions (even dropped bombs on the enemy camp) which would have made life easier for the marines...

@TheAvenger, pardon but I think this is the first time I would dis-agree with you, but I respect your take on the matter... peace

[TheAvenger]

[QUOTE]The soldiers morale gets a boost because they know when they get killed the government would give their widows money and they will get full military honors? I thought they are fighting for love of country and not for the money... Pardon

me but I didn't get it, unless your post has a different meaning...[QUOTE]


what I mean is that burial ceremony is a part of our tradition and it does not matter really if the government spent some money on the observance of this tradition.

the money you say needed for military equipment should come from other sources like example : from selling confiscated smuggled Cars, etc. limiting politicians junkets and unnecessary foreign trips.

who cares about money given to their widows.... it is just a pittance to tied them over during the wake and burial.... it is not even enough to cover a poor family's expenses for one month. whether you fight for love of country or not, the family left behind still needed money for expenses.... especially for the solders who mostly came from the poor.

[Maxxclip]

The best way we can do right now is to pray that this war will last sooner. Let us shows to them that we're not afraid nor threatened by their terrorist acts.

[TheAvenger]

08/22/2007

A research institute active in monitoring US military actions in the Philippines reported that Washington is building a military base in Mindanao, in contravention of the Philippine Constitution.

Herbert Docena, a research associate with Focus on the Global South, told Adnkronos International (AKI) that there was evidence an American base was being built.

“That is what I believe, I think Washington is in the process of building a military base,” he said on Tuesday.

Focus, a non-government research organization, said on June 6, 2007, the US Naval Facilities Engineering Command (Navfac) awarded a $14.4-million contract to Global Contingency Services LLC of Irving, Texas, for “operations support” for the Joint Special Operations Task Force- Philippines (JSOTF-P).

The JSOTF-P is the unit established by the US special operations command that has been stationed in southern Philippines since 2002.

Its role is to assist Manila in the war on terror with training and intelligence.

“According to its own Web site, Navfac is the unit within the US military in charge of providing the US Navy with operating, support and training bases,” Focus on the Global South said in a statement.

Global Contingency Services LLC is a partnership between DynCorp International, Parsons Global Services and PWC Logistics.

The research institute said the June contract was part of a bigger $450-million, five-year contract for Global Contingency Services to “provide a full range of world-wide contingency and disaster-response services, including humanitarian assistance and interim or transitional base-operating support services.”

”The specific contract for work for the JSOTF-P is expected to be completed in Jan. 2008 but other contracts may follow as part of the $450- million package,” Focus said.

According to Focus research, Docena said, the JSOTF-P “is involved in the Philippine military’s operations in the South, and represents the new low-profile kind of overseas presence that the US has been striving to introduce as part of its comprehensive restructuring of its forward-deployment since 2001.”

This restructuring would see fewer permanent bases and more, smaller bases such as the JSOTF-P’s presence in Zamboanga and in other places in Mindanao.

Both the US and the Philippines have denied reports that a military base is planned or under construction in the country.

The Philippine Constitution does not allow foreign troops to be stationed permanently in the country.

The rule was introduced in 1991 when lawmakers voted to close down two US bases in the country, Clark Air Force Base and Subic Naval Station.

Local law also forbids foreign troops to be involved in combat.

Under the US-Philippine Visiting Forces Agreement, US troops may provide only training, information and humanitarian aid.

Focus on the Global South (Focus) is a non-government organization with 20 staff in Thailand, the Philippines and India.

Established in Bangkok in 1995, it is affiliated with the Chulalongkorn University Social Research Institute and conducts policy research and advocacy.

In May, senior US State Department official Christopher Hill stressed the importance of a continued US presence in Mindanao where US soldiers have been credited with helping find and kill leaders of the Abu Sayyaf Group, notably its chief, Khaddafy Janjalani, and its spokesman, Abu Sabaya. (See related story)

The US has more than 700 bases and installations in over 100 countries around the world.


http://www.tribune.net.ph/headlines/20070822hed5.html

.

[TheAvenger]

THE SENTINEL. A Marine scans the surrounding terrain as he stands guard on the perimeter of his unit’s bivouac in Tipo-Tipo, Basilan. INQUIRER/EDWIN BACASMAS













A woman crosses Taft Avenue in Manila Wednesday as members of a SWAT team patrol against terrorist attack in the city. GMANews.TV






Massive evacuation' in Basilan readied for major AFP assault

08/22/2007 | 05:21 PM

Authorities in Basilan are preparing for a massive evacuation of residents as the Armed Forces readies a "major assault" on the Abu Sayyaf in the province.

The National Disaster Coordinating Council (NDCC) said Wednesday afternoon that the provincial disaster coordinating council in Basilan expects the assault any time soon.




CASUALTIES OF WAR. Evacuees rest by the side of the road as they flee their homes to avoid being caught in hostilities as government troops move in closer to what they believe to be an Abu Sayyaf camp in Tipo-Tipo, Basilan. INQUIRER/EDWIN BACASMAS


"PDCC Basilan is expecting for massive evacuation as the AFP is preparing to launch major assault on suspected ASG lairs," it said in a report Wednesday afternoon.

It added the situation remains critical in the area due to ongoing AFP operations, particularly in Tipo-Tipo town (Baguindan and Silangkum villages); and Ungkaya Pukan (Sungkayot and Bohe Suyak).

On the other hand, the NDCC said the displaced persons still do not have plans to return to their places of origin.

The NDCC added it is already difficult to house them in evacuation centers without amenities such as comfort rooms, bathrooms and potable water sources.

"Since the July 10 incident in Al Barka, 14 public elementary schools are non-operational due to fear of parents bringing their children to schools," it added.

As of Wednesday, the NDCC said 3,318 families or 19,258 persons are being served in seven towns.

These include 1,527 families or 7,371 persons in Sulu and 1,791 families or 11,887 persons in Basilan. -GMANews.TV


http://www.gmanews.tv/story/57213/Ma...or-AFP-assault



VIDEO LINK :

http://www.gmanews.tv/video/10722/Es...-slain-Marines


http://www.gmanews.tv/largevideo/lat...PMA-classmates


http://www.gmanews.tv/largevideo/lat...errorism-drill


http://www.gmanews.tv/video/10693/Za...ast-injures-14


http://www.gmanews.tv/video/10684/Sa...Zamboanga-City


http://www.gmanews.tv/video/10723/Te...ops-questioned


http://www.gmanews.tv/video/10721/1s...ander-relieved

.

[Animo]

Originally Posted by TheAvenger

in that case we can say Manila, cetral luzon, southern luzon , and other part of luzon was a part of the Sultanatte of Sulu, therefore we belong to their Bangsa Moro Nation.

so they can not just separate and declare a separate nation, since the Sultanatte of Sulu and the moslem settlement of Manila including other Luzon provinces was a part of the Bangsa Moro nation which have one one race, one nation, and one faith, before the Spaniards arrived in our shore.

don't tell me that you are infavor of letting them separate. anyhow I don't expect too much from the foreign-born Pinoy or Pinoy with foreign citizenship to be as nationalistic as we are the native born Pinoy.

according to Bush statement :
" If you are not with us.... then you are against us "


the above statement is another proof that our brother Muslims cannot just separate even the western part of Mindanap from us, for their dreams of an Islamic Republic.

I see. Will your view differ when I say my relatives are also moslem? That I have moslem blood running in my veins? My maternal granfather was buried following Islamic law in Mindanao. Am I not "native" enough? I grew up hearing Islamic hymns but I was given a choice to either be Christian or a "true" Filipino [believed by some] and go with Islam. By the way, my grandmother is a Christian Cebuana.

The Islamic natives of Islas Filipinas knew Jesus much more earlier compared to Christianized natives of the islands. Christianity and Islam intertwines with each other. Jesus is a prophet like Muhammad in Koran. That I think is funny.

If you will try to figure it out the majority of the moslem population wants peace between this Christian vs. Islamic conflicts. These people are terrorist who wants to divide people. I find it actually ironic why other Filipinos keep on dividing us when they keep on refering to "muslim brothers..." when they too are Filipinos but just with a different faith but not the race/birth place.

[TheAvenger]

Originally Posted by Animo

I see. Will your view differ when I say my relatives are also moslem? That I have moslem blood running in my veins? My maternal granfather was buried following Islamic law in Mindanao. Am I not "native" enough? I grew up hearing Islamic hymns but I was given a choice to either be Christian or a "true" Filipino [believed by some] and go with Islam. By the way, my grandmother is a Christian Cebuana.

The Islamic natives of Islas Filipinas knew Jesus much more earlier compared to Christianized natives of the islands. Christianity and Islam intertwines with each other. Jesus is a prophet like Muhammad in Koran. That I think is funny.

If you will try to figure it out the majority of the moslem population wants peace between this Christian vs. Islamic conflicts. These people are terrorist who wants to divide people. I find it actually ironic why other Filipinos keep on dividing us when they keep on refering to "muslim brothers..." when they too are Filipinos but just with a different faith but not the race/birth place.

Nice to know that you have an ancestor who profess the Islamic faith. i guessed my great-great grandparents on the maternal side since they were the natives of Bulacan nearby the Kingdom of Tondo and Maynila, were also Muslims. ( By the way, my great-great grandparents on the paternal side were from Carmen Cebu and Davao)

outside our country I have direct contacts with the Muslims of Indonesia and Malaysia and I even gone inside a Mosque in Brunei. I have little contacts with our Muslim brothers except in some occasions. I always read the history of our brother Muslims, their sufferings during the colonial era and the continued prejudiced by the mainstream Filipino society and the govt neglect of their situations.

I sympathized with them so much and I was happy that the MNLF rebellion resulted to more Muslims were integrated in our civilian national government, many of them have joined our military and police establishment. And the MNLF integrees in our AFP is a good signs that some steps were on the way for their integration in our mainstream society. I sympathized with them to the point that I wished our government will give them more autonomy and funds to develop their regions of Western Mindanao, Basilan, and Sulu.

But not give them a freedom to established a separate Bangsa Moro nation, the realization of their dreams for a separate nation will mean more war in the south. It will herald the disintegration of our country into many small squabbling province republic.

I guessed that once they established an Islamic republic, the Christian in Eastern Mindanao will set up also their own Republic and that will ignite again another war, more vicious than the present one. Since on the present war our central government is fighting for the preservation of our national territorial integrity, while the future war between the future Christian Republic of Eastern Mindanao and the future Islamic Republic of Western Mindanao, Basilan, and Sulu will be fought in religious lines.

Then the regions of Visayas and Luzon whether still under one Republic or under a Federal Republic, or divided into small squabling province republic, will always be involve in another war in Mindanao.

In my view the Bangsa Moro should be given more autonomy and the central goverment to prioritize the development of their region. But never let them separate and established another Republic an Islamic Republic which will be the tinderbox of a new religious war in this part of the world.

The present war in the south is not a religious war and it is more a war between the oppressed peoples and the central government.

[Lucentino]

Originally Posted by TheAvenger

what I mean is that burial ceremony is a part of our tradition and it does not matter really if the government spent some money on the observance of this tradition.

the money you say needed for military equipment should come from other sources like example : from selling confiscated smuggled Cars, etc. limiting politicians junkets and unnecessary foreign trips.

who cares about money given to their widows.... it is just a pittance to tied them over during the wake and burial.... it is not even enough to cover a poor family's expenses for one month. whether you fight for love of country or not, the family left behind still needed money for expenses.... especially for the solders who mostly came from the poor.

Sure!

But I guess you agreed with me on the other points I had raised...


By the way, Erap and co-horts gave half a million each to the grieving soldier's families... Where did he get all these money? And is he really giving it to help these families or is he doing it to ignite "something"?