Philippine Defense Forces

[CarltonHill]

China to Philippines: Quit Scarborough Shoal

China has asked all Philippine vessels to leave immediately Scarborough Shoal and sent a second aircraft buzzing over the area to scare away Filipino fishermen, officials said yesterday.

http://www.asianewsnet.net/home/news.php?id=29700

Russia sends ships for China war games

A quartet of warships from Russia's Pacific Fleet left port in Vladivostok last weekend, bound for war games with China in the Yellow Sea, official media said.

The ships, identified as the guided missile cruiser Varyag and the large antisubmarine ships Marshal Shaposhnikov, Admiral Panteleyev and Admiral Vinogradov, left the Russian Far East port Sunday, the Chinese news agency Xinhua reported.

http://www.spacewar.com/reports/Russ...games_999.html

I thought Russia will be supporting Vietnam....

[Nabartek]

The bear even said they are with us for peaceful resolution of the wps dispute

[SO143]

i think ww3 will be occurred in somewhere around north korea, taiwan, japan and philppine. its quite interesting tho.

china may probably think itself as a superpower or something but it still has a long way to catch up with the united states in many aspects.

[demented_pigeon]

World War 3 is unlikely. The likely scenario is the power of American military eventually decreasing with the continued pressure within by its own citizens to scale back its foreign militarist project. The new imperialist aggressor to watch out for is China.

In the absence of American military power, especially with its failure to win the war in Afghanistan (especially with the damaging confession of some of its officers assigned to assess the war that the war is being lost in all fronts), China must be prevented from pushing its weight. As we are seeing the end of a unipolar global setup and the rise of regional multipolar powers, i.e China, India, Russia, Brazil, etc., the question is will we ally with any of these powers or construct a new one such as focusing on reforming the ASEAN into a true regional formation instead of its current use simply as a free trade area.

[jpdm]

Second cutter from US due within 2nd quarter



By Dona Z. Pazzibugan
Philippine Daily Inquirer
7:07 pm | Tuesday, April 17th, 2012
share5050


MANILA, Philippines—Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin told reporters Tuesday that a second high-endurance cutter from the United States Coast Guard is expected to arrive in the country within the next couple of months, if not sooner.

Earlier reports said the Philippine Navy was to acquire the cutter Dallas, which was decommissioned recently from the US Coast Guard, in order to be transferred to the Philippine Navy.

It is a sister ship of what is now the BRP Gregorio Del Pilar, a former US Coast Guard cutter which was acquired in June last year but arrived in the country in September. It is now the biggest warship in the Philippine Navy fleet.
The second US Coast Guard cutter was originally expected to arrive early this year.

“We will get it within the year,” said Gazmin, adding he has been assured by US officials “that we will be able to get it.”

Gazmin and Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario will be in the US on April 30 for talks with their counterparts, US Defense Secretary Leon Panetta and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton on defense and economic issues, including regional issues.

“Maybe it will be nice if I can ride (on the new ship) on my return home,” Gazmin said at a forum with the Defense Press Corps on Tuesday.

The Philippine-US talks come as the Philippine and Chinese vessels are locked in a stand-off in the Panatag Shoal (international name: Scarborough Shoal), which began on April 8. Both the Philippine and China claim the shoal as part of their territories.

Chinese maritime surveillance ships prevented Philippine maritime authorities from arresting Chinese poachers who were found to have illegally taken a huge quantity of endangered giant clams, live sharks and corals from the area.
It was the BRP Gregorio Del Pilar which intercepted eight Chinese fishing boats, but the Navy ship was stopped from arresting the poachers by the arrival of two Chinese maritime surveillance vessels.

Panatag Shoal is 124 nautical miles from the nearest basepoint in Zambales province and therefore well within the Philippines’ 200-nautical-mile exclusive economic zone, but the Chinese claim it is theirs by historical right.
“I’m sure this will be one of the subject matter,” Gazmin said when asked if the stand-off will be taken up in the talks with their US counterparts.

But he downplayed the possibility of outright US assistance on the matter.

“Let’s be practical. From their point of view if it’s in their interest, they will act in order to assist us. But if it is not in their interest, I’m sure they will not act. So what we will do is (focus on our) capability upgrade. They will offer equipment that would be able to address these areas,” Gazmin said.
The Philippines and China and four other nations are locked in a territorial dispute over the Spratly group of islands in the West Philippine Sea (or South China Sea).

Meanwhile, Gazmin said the Department of National Defense was almost through preparing half of the 138 contracts the department wants to enter into during the Aquino administration to acquire major hardware and equipment for the military.

The defense department expects to finish all 138 contracts by July this year so they can be submitted to President Aquino for approval, and then to Congress for budget appropriation.

The DND has said the 138 military contracts worth P70 billion includes the acquisition of fighter jets, warships and modern equipment to boost depleted military assets especially of the Philippine Air Force and the Philippine Navy.
The contracts will not be entered into at the same time but over a period of time until 2016.

http://globalnation.inquirer.net/335...in-2nd-quarter

We should keep on negotiating for more military deals to prepare ourselves for the defense of our territory.

China is becoming a real and present danger in the Spratly's

[jpdm]

Originally Posted by demented_pigeon

World War 3 is unlikely. The likely scenario is the power of American military eventually decreasing with the continued pressure within by its own citizens to scale back its foreign militarist project. The new imperialist aggressor to watch out for is China.

In the absence of American military power, especially with its failure to win the war in Afghanistan (especially with the damaging confession of some of its officers assigned to assess the war that the war is being lost in all fronts), China must be prevented from pushing its weight. As we are seeing the end of a unipolar global setup and the rise of regional multipolar powers, i.e China, India, Russia, Brazil, etc., the question is will we ally with any of these powers or construct a new one such as focusing on reforming the ASEAN into a true regional formation instead of its current use simply as a free trade area.

welcome back!

[gentlemuscleman]

The case of present day iraq has more to do with islamic radicalism than containing the bear. What the us is containing now is the spread of islamic radicalism who views the whole world should be islamized. That is why the us has been supporting israel despite some of its dirty work and that is why the us is hardly kicking out dictators in the middle east that are friendly to the us ... Kuwait, uae, house of saud. Unfortunately, the islamists found a way, through legal immigration. This is esp true in europe. Increasingly, the terrorists are native born. But then, the us and europe is plagued with political correctness
Today 02:34


WATCH WWW.ABNSAT.COM WACTH NYO SA YOUTUBE PANOORIN NYO ANG TOPIC REGARDING ISLAMIC JIHAD AT IBA PANG MGA ISLAMIC RADICALS KASAMA NA ANG ABUSAYAF GROUP AT JAMAAH ISLAMIYA,SUPORTADO YAN LAHAT NG LAHAT NG ISLAMIC COUNRTY KASAMA NA ANG MALAYSIA AT INDONESIA.

[gentlemuscleman]

WWW.ABNSAT.COM ON YOUTUBE,DEBATE ABOUT ISLAMIC JIHAD

[jpdm]

Originally Posted by SO143

i think ww3 will be occurred in somewhere around north korea, taiwan, japan and philppine. its quite interesting tho.

china may probably think itself as a superpower or something but it still has a long way to catch up with the united states in many aspects.

Malabo yan. China and North Korea will easily succumb to US and NATO missiles.

Unless of course Russia will side with her Communist breathen.

[demented_pigeon]

There is better chance of protecting our interest by keeping the Americans out of the issue. We don't want the conflict to sideline our sovereignty and transform this entire issue into an issue of China versus United States. Honestly, some pundits already view the conflict as that.

My humble opinion is let's scrap the entire Mutual Defense Treaty. It's old and only relevant for the Cold War. Renegotiate a new treaty where you will ensure greater benefits for us. The MDT has practically been used as a cautionary case by many countries negotiating treaties with the US. I will already profess my political leanings: I am a socialist and I am critical of American hegemony and influence in the country. However, unlike some of the vociferously anti-American authoritarian leftists (i.e. Bayan Muna, Gabriela) I am not against a newer treaty that would redefine American-Philippines relations. I admit that I prefer the foreign policy of Brazil which has given it a huge latitude to dialogue with diverse interests such as the United States, Cuba, Venezuela, Iran, and the EU.

In essence my proposition would be:
1. Abrogate the MDT, draft a new and more realistic and sensible US-Philippines treaty. One that would guarantee technology transfer and military purchases with no American bases or presence in exchange.

2. Push for a stronger ASEAN. Specifically focusing on reforming it (i.e strengthening democracy in the region by calling for democratization in Burma, Malaysia, and Vietnam and linking up with other interests that are in harmony with us). Call for a permanent ASEAN flotilla or naval presence in the region.

3. Strengthen and modernize the Philippine military. The current modernization of the administration is negligible but its still double than all previous administrations have done combined. I prefer a modern BUT average sized Armed Forces. The reason for this is in number 2. A combined effort by all ASEAN countries would negate the need for ultra modern weaponry. We don't need armaments for going to war. We need them for posturing, deterrence, and bargaining.

4. Lastly, draft the Code of Conduct for the Spratlys. The proposed COC was not finished due to Chinese pressure and due to delay by their proxy country, Cambodia. A COC would make the Chinese liable for violations unlike in the current Declaration of Conduct of 2002 which is non binding.

[demented_pigeon]

Don't fear North Korea. The country can't even launch a rocket much less feed their population. The country is being used by the propaganda arm of both the US and China. US exaggerates the fear of NoKor to defend its presence in Japan, South Korea and the Pacific. China uses North Korea as a bargaining chip against Japan, South Korea and the US arguing that it is the only power that can talk with the regime and hence the other countries should support Chinese efforts.

[gmaer]

Originally Posted by hugodiekonig

kailangan na natin sigurong bilhin ang mga Italian Warships gaya ng naipost rito sa thread earlier

These Italian warships will be made available starting next year but Peru wants to buy them all and leave nothing for us!

Originally Posted by Nabartek

Kaya sana wag naman masyadong mahal sila magbenta sa atin

Military industry is an important business in the United States, one cannot just ask them to lower down their prices now that they are suffering from economic problems.

Originally Posted by june1

How come the goverment is spending too mcuh time on gloria than on the economy so that they can be rich so that they can defend scarborough shoal.? P-noy could change the charter and attract more investment, than investigating gloria. The philippines should get rich fast , thats the answer.

Most of the investments and major businesses here that we attracted are also Chinese!

[Nabartek]

ASEAN and COC are a problem, IMO. Not sure of the COC has been signed by CHINA but reports say they did. As for ASEAN, I'm afraid a united ASEAN is a bit far fetch. China has invested a lot in this countries so our "neighbors" seem to have a hard time speakig out against China. Latest news is even the Thai PM praised China for its role in ASEAN.

If ever hostility breaks out, you know our neighbors will merely save their asses.

[Mercato]

@demented

points #
1. Why lower your defenses and leave an already stripped to the bone & emaciated Philippine military even more vulnerable to the Chinese. Or is that the real intent again? Can a leopard change its spots?

Been there, done that. We already gave it your way when you guys yakked to high heavens for the removal of the bases. Things had not improved since 1991.

Reality check. As an economically weaker country compared to either Brazil or the US, the Phils. has fewer options. TANSTAAFL = There aint no such thing as a free lunch.

2. Reality check. ASEAN mainland members are falling all over each other slobbering up to the Red Dragon. Who's gonna tell them to behave like a sober ASEAN member state?

3. Looks good on paper, but reality check. The Phil military refuses to abandon its time honoured traditions of plunder and corruption. All for the benefit of the generals and their families.

4. Who is going to recognize and honour that Code of Conduct? It would be futile if China smells it out and refuses to.

[demented_pigeon]

Originally Posted by Nabartek

ASEAN and COC are a problem, IMO. Not sure of the COC has been signed by CHINA but reports say they did. As for ASEAN, I'm afraid a united ASEAN is a bit far fetch. China has invested a lot in this countries so our "neighbors" seem to have a hard time speakig out against China. Latest news is even the Thai PM praised China for its role in ASEAN.

If ever hostility breaks out, you know our neighbors will merely save their asses.

There is no COC that has been signed. There is however a 2002 Declaration of the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC) to which China is a signatory. China has stated they support a binding COC but has insisted that it should join in the preliminary drafting.

Well there are some ASEAN members who are supportive of Chinese interest such as Cambodia and Burma. However some, such as Malaysia, Vietnam, Burma, Thailand, and Indonesia do not usually tend to favor Chinese interests.

[Nabartek]

Originally Posted by gmaer

These Italian warships will be made available starting next year but Peru wants to buy them all and leave nothing for us!



Military industry is an important business in the United States, one cannot just ask them to lower down their prices now that they are suffering from economic problems.



Most of the investments and major businesses here that we attracted are also Chinese!

If the US is serious about containing China, they will eventually have to make their equipments available to us. A strong Philippines is a strong buffer.

US presence will also be critical. Military execises, IMO, should be more frequent and longer. Interoperability is important incase hostilities do break out.

It is more economical in the long run for the US to make
Military resources for us. That said, it is better for us and the US to be able to catch up with the equipment we have. The US will not have to have maintain a base here, maybe just troops for interoperability. On the other hand, we will be able to have a strong defense.

[Nabartek]

Originally Posted by demented_pigeon

There is no COC that has been signed. There is however a 2002 Declaration of the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC) to which China is a signatory. China has stated they support a binding COC but has insisted that it should join in the preliminary drafting.

Well there are some ASEAN members who are supportive of Chinese interest such as Cambodia and Burma. However some, such as Malaysia, Vietnam, Burma, Thailand, and Indonesia do not usually tend to favor Chinese interests.

Vietnam, yes. It's very obvious. The rest you mentioned, they are likely to be "tikom bibig" rather than helping maintain the WPS as international waters.

I'm not sure if I read it here but China once propose to build a canal in the Isthmus.

[demented_pigeon]

Originally Posted by Mercato

@demented

points #
1. Why lower your defenses and leave an already stripped to the bone & emaciated Philippine military even more vulnerable to the Chinese. Or is that the real intent again? Can a leopard change its spots?

Been there, done that. We already gave it your way when you guys yakked to high heavens for the removal of the bases. Things had not improved since 1991.

Reality check. As an economically weaker country compared to either Brazil or the US, the Phils. has fewer options. TANSTAAFL = There aint no such thing as a free lunch.

2. Reality check. ASEAN mainland members are falling all over each other slobbering up to the Red Dragon. Who's gonna tell them to behave like a sober ASEAN member state?

3. Looks good on paper, but reality check. The Phil military refuses to abandon its time honoured traditions of plunder and corruption. All for the benefit of the generals and their families.

4. Who is going to recognize and honour that Code of Conduct? It would be futile if China smells it out and refuses to.

Sorry but some of your points seem to contradict each other. I'll try my best to understand them.

1. The removal of the bases did not achieve abrogating the MDT. A new treaty is needed. To assume that calling for a new treaty is calling for "emaciating or stripping" Philippine military defense is as an absurd position taken by far-left groups like BAYAN arguing that any form of military purchase to modernize the military is to kowtowing to American interests.

2. If China refuses to sign it, it strengthens our claim over the area. That's what you call diplomacy.

3. I don't understand if you want to strengthen the military. You want the american bases but don't want to modernize the military? Sorry that's absurd. Also, that position fails to consider efforts by many soldiers to reform the institution. case in point was Bangit being the ONLY AFP chief to not receive a pabaon. that wasn't because of his kindheartedness but because of a growing influence of a faction of the military that believes in defending our country against external threats over other factions in the military such as those like ex-AFP chief Esperon who view that increasing military interference in the elections is one way to strengthen its position or another faction that believes in waging an all-out war against all Left groups regardless if those left groups are vocal critics of the NPA themselves.

[demented_pigeon]

Originally Posted by Nabartek

Vietnam, yes. It's very obvious. The rest you mentioned, they are likely to be "tikom bibig" rather than helping maintain the WPS as international waters.

I'm not sure if I read it here but China once propose to build a canal in the Isthmus.

its not a one size fits all. some countries have no interest in the COC. thats understood because some like Indonesia have no claim. However, diplomacy and bargaining can be inserted to entice them to join. Basically you can convince them to join in exchange for the Philippines supporting their position in other matters. For example Indonesia and the Philippines both have big migrant worker populations in Hong Kong. Indonesia can sign the COC and at the same time the Philippines can support Indonesian efforts in protecting their own migrant workers. (By the way, according to many migrant organizations, and Im not talking about the communist Migrante, many concede that the Philippines is already two decades ahead of other labor exporting countries in the field of protecting its migrant workers. The Philippines is the only country that has protection of migrant workers as one of its pillar of foreign policy. Although more is still to be desired and much more improvement is needed.)

[Nabartek]

So what do you propose as an exchange for transfer of technology since you do not favor even american presence. I doubt that they will accept that without any exchange unless we can pay their arms industry with really huge sums.