daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Development News Forums > General Urban Developments > DN Archives



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old February 18th, 2013, 09:28 AM   #1141
inno4321
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SEOUL
Posts: 5,328
Likes (Received): 12410

Quote:
Originally Posted by krkseg1ops View Post
You seem to be emotionally attached to this project
Right

As skyscraper lover
This project is my dream, my life and my future.
__________________
Seoul Projects Compilation Blog

"Theory of Quantum Mechanics, theory of Inflation, M-theory imply Multiverses. Probably We're a part of Infinity&Nothing" inno4321
inno4321 no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old February 18th, 2013, 08:02 PM   #1142
aquaticko
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Manchester, NH
Posts: 1,980
Likes (Received): 1021

But why does it matter so much to you? I love skyscrapers, too, but I know that this project has, ever since it was first proposed and the site cleared, been steeped in problems--from the violent and forceful eviction of some of the people who used to live here, to the recurring financial problems it's had, to the financial problems which have appeared in other parts of the Han Renaissance project only recently, nevermind the lack of real demand for a project of this scale in Seoul.

Seoul shouldn't try to follow Chinese cities in the number of skyscrapers constructed, nor should it construct them for the same reasons of being flashy and trying to get international attention. This city is more mature than that in every way; the population isn't going to increase significantly over the next few decades, and in terms of international reputation, it's already among the top cities of the world.

At this point, I don't care if we don't see anything happen on this site until 2020; as long as when we do, it's done carefully, properly, and for the right reasons.

And please, Korean architects. They deserve a chance, especially this chance, to shine.
__________________

BOM, brianmoon85, sergiomazzi, inno4321 liked this post
aquaticko no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 19th, 2013, 09:19 AM   #1143
inno4321
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SEOUL
Posts: 5,328
Likes (Received): 12410

Dear aquaticko

I know your proffesional knoledge about s.korea. I admit it
Base on this fact i will answer to your some question.


But why does it matter so much to you?
==> 1. I'm live in seoul also i used to go CBD and yongsan almost everyday. So if yongsan changed with dramiticaly then i can enjoy that facilities. Actually jamsil is not my favor area. So TO BE HONEST lotte supertower is less important to me.
But yongsan is different. It is heart of seoul and very closed to CBD.


I love skyscrapers, too, but I know that this project has, ever since it was first proposed and the site cleared, been steeped in problems
==> I know I admit it

--from the violent and forceful eviction of some of the people who used to live here,
==> Actually you don't know(no offensive means) concern "forceful eviction". They ask a lot of money.
Think about more than 10million 3.3m3 is not enough for compensation.
You don't know korean charater.
it is concern "GREED" not forceful eviction(such like in communist country)


to the recurring financial problems it's had, to the financial problems which have appeared in other parts of the Han Renaissance project only recently,
==> Right it is financial problems But As policy the Han Renaissance project is RIGHT.

nevermind the lack of real demand for a project of this scale in Seoul.
==> remember now seoul is restricted by "sudogun gu chae law" which is forceful eviction people from seoul city to suburban. seoul can not construct new college and company factory or headoffice.
the lack of real demand not natural city twilight but law.

Seoul shouldn't try to follow Chinese cities in the number of skyscrapers constructed, nor should it construct them for the same reasons of being flashy and trying to get international attention.
==> agree

This city is more mature than that in every way; the population isn't going to increase significantly over the next few decades,
==> right population still ...but huge tourtist came from abroad. So ADID(Abudabi nantional found) suggest for buying IBD shopping mall.

and in terms of international reputation, it's already among the top cities of the world.
==> I heard seoul rank 6 in world most powerful cities by japan institue.
However it beacuse IT and Subway system. Shoppingmall and comerce building and high qually residence is very short compare with HONGKON AND SINGAPOR. IBD project is answer.

At this point, I don't care if we don't see anything happen on this site until 2020; as long as when we do, it's done carefully, properly, and for the right reasons.
And please, Korean architects. They deserve a chance, especially this chance, to shine.
==> IF anything happen on this site until 2020 I'm getting OLD i can not wait that time.
Anyway thanks
__________________
Seoul Projects Compilation Blog

"Theory of Quantum Mechanics, theory of Inflation, M-theory imply Multiverses. Probably We're a part of Infinity&Nothing" inno4321

aquaticko liked this post

Last edited by inno4321; February 19th, 2013 at 12:03 PM.
inno4321 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 19th, 2013, 11:58 AM   #1144
inno4321
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SEOUL
Posts: 5,328
Likes (Received): 12410

GREAT news

- Park gun Hye who New President of south korea will be held 3 party meeting for IBD project resume.

- Korail/Dreamhub pfv/Seoul gov

- AFTER inaguruation new president ceremony(So guess probably 26~28 Feb)

__________________
Seoul Projects Compilation Blog

"Theory of Quantum Mechanics, theory of Inflation, M-theory imply Multiverses. Probably We're a part of Infinity&Nothing" inno4321

Gudavalli liked this post
inno4321 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 19th, 2013, 01:49 PM   #1145
ZZ-II
I love Skyscrapers
 
ZZ-II's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Near Ingolstadt in Bavaria
Posts: 33,502
Likes (Received): 6522

Quote:
Originally Posted by inno4321 View Post
GREAT news

- Park gun Hye who New President of south korea will be held 3 party meeting for IBD project resume.

- Korail/Dreamhub pfv/Seoul gov

- AFTER inaguruation new president ceremony(So guess probably 26~28 Feb)

. So we'll see progress soon !
__________________
Click here to get the Worlds Supertall Lists

inno4321 liked this post
ZZ-II no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 19th, 2013, 02:00 PM   #1146
inno4321
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SEOUL
Posts: 5,328
Likes (Received): 12410

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZZ-II View Post
. So we'll see progress soon !
Probably we'll see soon. At least this project escape from "default"

However accordding to the Mr. jin yong who semi chairman of New president of korea, seoul mayor still rejected suggestion for "Increased floor area rate in IBD" So problem is seoul mayor
__________________
Seoul Projects Compilation Blog

"Theory of Quantum Mechanics, theory of Inflation, M-theory imply Multiverses. Probably We're a part of Infinity&Nothing" inno4321
inno4321 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 19th, 2013, 02:34 PM   #1147
krkseg1ops
Registered User
 
krkseg1ops's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Kraków - dawna stolica Polaków
Posts: 1,917
Likes (Received): 1140

Great stuff!
__________________

inno4321 liked this post
krkseg1ops no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 20th, 2013, 10:33 AM   #1148
inno4321
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SEOUL
Posts: 5,328
Likes (Received): 12410

To be honest

At the very moment, some scenario came out from journal.

1. Default

2. Redesign All building for more economicaly(Decrease building's height and floors/Reduce commercial area)

3. Gradual develop(First empty rail site. And then beside han river area)

4. Dramatic breakthrough. Proceed without change


I wish New president of korea, she slove all problem.
__________________
Seoul Projects Compilation Blog

"Theory of Quantum Mechanics, theory of Inflation, M-theory imply Multiverses. Probably We're a part of Infinity&Nothing" inno4321
inno4321 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 20th, 2013, 01:46 PM   #1149
inno4321
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SEOUL
Posts: 5,328
Likes (Received): 12410

What the xxxx seoul mayor.

-Accodding to the today news Seoul mayor is going to divided IBD site with 6 parts and get out from project

I'm really sick and tired with this crazy moneky guy

He dosen't give a shit even New president of korea's suggestion.
Yesterday president of korea annouced for resume project But suddenly this ugly crazy monkey guy announced 6 part divied? Really sun of bitch.

__________________
Seoul Projects Compilation Blog

"Theory of Quantum Mechanics, theory of Inflation, M-theory imply Multiverses. Probably We're a part of Infinity&Nothing" inno4321
inno4321 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 20th, 2013, 02:15 PM   #1150
aquaticko
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Manchester, NH
Posts: 1,980
Likes (Received): 1021

I don't see how that's necessarily a bad thing; is it even that different from a gradual development plan?
aquaticko no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 20th, 2013, 03:34 PM   #1151
inno4321
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SEOUL
Posts: 5,328
Likes (Received): 12410

Quote:
Originally Posted by aquaticko View Post
I don't see how that's necessarily a bad thing; is it even that different from a gradual development plan?
Absolutely different from gradual plan

Even KORAIL and Citizens never ever imagine which "divied block and retain"
Gradual plan is included "apartment block" as IBD project.(but needs delay time)
However monkey's divided plan is set apart "apartment block" from IBD project.

Yesterday New president beginn resume IBD project. But suddenly today monkey annouced retain!

Seoul idiot mayor is opposition political party against New president of korea.

So This is political terror and vandalism against new president and national goverment.
__________________
Seoul Projects Compilation Blog

"Theory of Quantum Mechanics, theory of Inflation, M-theory imply Multiverses. Probably We're a part of Infinity&Nothing" inno4321

Last edited by inno4321; February 20th, 2013 at 07:21 PM.
inno4321 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 20th, 2013, 06:06 PM   #1152
otrsk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1
Likes (Received): 0

What happened?
Is this plan was canceled?
What is the probability that this plan will succeed much?
otrsk no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 20th, 2013, 08:00 PM   #1153
tim1807
faster than buildings
 
tim1807's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Den Helder
Posts: 10,325
Likes (Received): 5334

^ It is not cancelled. Just wait and see. Although I think it won't start anytime soon .
__________________

inno4321 liked this post
tim1807 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 21st, 2013, 11:42 PM   #1154
inno4321
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SEOUL
Posts: 5,328
Likes (Received): 12410

-Yesterday KORAIL official reject for financial increase(ABS)

-Official stalled

-Already technical Default situation.

-Now Tremendous issue :All journal covered with Yongsan IBD crisis.

-Yesterday Some citizens protest in front of KORAIL building in seoul

-KORAIL official suggest to National goverment for support : Invest from national goverment/changed plan from private project to public project/Kick out lotte and samsung/Gradual plan

-Lotte against to KORAIL's public suggestion and prepare a file a suit

-Seoul mayor announce "chul gu jul yak" which means apartment block depart from IBD project and retain.(adding insult to injury)

-Yesterday mr jangwon who congressman blame on KORAIL and "Ministry of land and transper", request NATIONAL support on project.

-National goverment is going to held 3 party meeting after inauguration of New president of s korea in 25. FEB.

If default then this is KOREAN subprime mortagage crisis and treamendous crisis on korean economy.
__________________
Seoul Projects Compilation Blog

"Theory of Quantum Mechanics, theory of Inflation, M-theory imply Multiverses. Probably We're a part of Infinity&Nothing" inno4321

Last edited by inno4321; February 21st, 2013 at 11:51 PM.
inno4321 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 24th, 2013, 10:20 PM   #1155
aquaticko
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Manchester, NH
Posts: 1,980
Likes (Received): 1021

"Massive Yongsan project in danger of bankruptcy"

Lack of funding due to 2008 financial crisis blamed
Feb 25,2013
The Lee Myung-bak government’s plan to develop Yongsan District in central Seoul is risking going bankrupt due to lack of funding.

Back in 2007, the government painted a rosy picture. It talked about turning the area that was mainly made up of Korail’s train warehouses into a large international complex, consisting of offices, shopping malls, hotels and apartments.

It wanted to make the district a landmark of East Asia, full of skyscrapers, including a handful of 100-story buildings.

The total area of the landmass was estimated to be 566,000 square meters (140 acres). The whole project was estimated to be worth 82 trillion won ($75.5 billion), creating around 400,000 new jobs. The project was separate from the development of the U.S. base nearby.

After the announcement, the property price of the area surged.

However, in the wake of the 2008 global financial crisis, the ambitious plan went off the rails.

First of all, the government had trouble financing the 31 trillion won needed to begin the project. It couldn’t even finance 8 trillion won to purchase the land from Korail.

The 29 corporations that made investments in the project had conflicts with the land owner, Korail, about how to finance the project for the past five years.

When the project needed emergency funds, the investors had to take out loans from banks, using the land as collateral. Without any solution to raise the funds, the project saw debt piling up even before it began.

One of the causes stemmed from the falling profitability of the Yongsan project in the aftermath of the financial crisis.

International businesses that once intended to buy buildings in the region decided not to do so for financial reasons.

“Prices of buildings and houses in the region were estimated to make lower profits than expected,” said Kim Sun-deok, head of the Construction Industry Strategy Research.

Another cause was that the country’s real estate market was pushed into a deep recession, causing the price of the Yongsan areas to decline.

As the outlook for profitability became dire, the investors had to cope with growing risks, sparking fierce conflicts among them.

Samsung C&T, a major stakeholder, decided to drop out of the project in August 2010. The company had been leading the project as the largest shareholder of Yongsan Development Corporation, an asset management unit of the Dream Hub Project Finance Investment, the overseer of the whole project.

Dream Hub claimed Samsung C&T was hindering financing via an advance payment guarantee and demanded Samsung withdraw from the project. The overseer thought financing through payment guarantee would be possible without Samsung.

However, none of the other construction companies volunteered to receive advance payment guarantees.

After Samsung left the project, the investors couldn’t find another company to take Samsung’s place in the agreement.

Korail and the remaining investors had different views on how to proceed with the development plan.

While Korail insisted on a phase-by-phase development plan, the private investors argued the plan would cause high inefficiency and delay completion of the project.

They also said autonomy of each investor would be undermined if Korail exercises too much power on the project.

While the two parties are engaged in a tug-of-war, there is not enough time left for the Yongsan Development Corporation to cover its 5.9 billion won in loan interest, which is due by March 12. It only has 900 million won in its coffers.

There is no other way to pay the interest, since Korail refused to provide collateral to help issue 300 billion won worth of asset-backed commercial paper yesterday.

In December, the private investors opposed issuing 250 billion won worth of convertible bonds.

If the Yongsan Development Corporation goes bankrupt, this project would also collapse, causing severe consequences in terms of socio-economics. The investors have so far invested one trillion won as basic capital for the project. The investment will disappear if the project is scrapped.

“Some of the companies would have problems in management as they won’t be able to withdraw the initial investment,” said an official at a construction company.

Korail would also lose the opportunity to make up its deficits. The company currently is burdened with 4.5 trillion won in debt incurred by the government’s plan to build railways for KTX.

Residents in Yongsan District would also be victims. Since 2007, about 2,200 households there weren’t able to use any financial options to receive loans since their properties became part of the project.

“If the project turns out to be a failure, the residents will be the biggest victims,” said Kim Chan, a group leader in the district.

“It is certain that the land and housing prices will plunge after the project fails, aggravating the current slump in the real estate market,” said Lee Nam-soo, a manager at Shinhan Bank’s real estate team.

The Korean government would also have to bear international humiliation if it cancels the project, since it tried to attract foreign engineering businesses to design new buildings for the complex.

“There were too many stakeholders involved in this project, while profitability kept falling due to the economic situation,” said Doo Seong-kyu, a director at the Construction Economy Research Institute.
__________________

inno4321 liked this post
aquaticko no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 24th, 2013, 11:52 PM   #1156
Munwon
Registered User
 
Munwon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Busan
Posts: 3,437
Likes (Received): 3182

They're trying to blame the Crisis of 2008? LAME
Munwon no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2013, 12:19 AM   #1157
aquaticko
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Manchester, NH
Posts: 1,980
Likes (Received): 1021

Well, it's kind of true, isn't it? Besides, it was before that that we saw lots of genuinely huge projects being proposed all across the country, and only a very small number of them are either under construction or still being proposed. It's not so different from what happened in the rest of the world; it probably just took a while to get to this point because of how incredibly mammoth this particular project is (or was).
aquaticko no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2013, 01:16 AM   #1158
Munwon
Registered User
 
Munwon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Busan
Posts: 3,437
Likes (Received): 3182

Quote:
Originally Posted by aquaticko View Post
Well, it's kind of true, isn't it? Besides, it was before that that we saw lots of genuinely huge projects being proposed all across the country, and only a very small number of them are either under construction or still being proposed. It's not so different from what happened in the rest of the world; it probably just took a while to get to this point because of how incredibly mammoth this particular project is (or was).
You have a point. The Korean Won lost alot of value as many investors put their money into safer things. One thing I know for sure is that something BIG will be built here one day in some form. The site is soooo prime. But what and when I have no idea.
__________________

inno4321 liked this post
Munwon no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2013, 01:48 AM   #1159
inno4321
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SEOUL
Posts: 5,328
Likes (Received): 12410

I'm agree with aquaticko, Munwon

Also In my opinions Blame to

First. World financial crisis(no doubt)
2. New seoul mayor's wrong anti-develop policy
3. KORAIL
4. A few but it is who greed apartment people
5. Predecessor Seoul mayor who resign himselfe without complete this project and design/reinssance policy.

But let hope!

Accordding to the today report DREAMHUB got some huge money from national Post
So with this money IBD can delayed default until 15 march.

Broadcasting about IBD
http://news.kbs.co.kr/news/NewsView....t=1&sm=tab_smr
__________________
Seoul Projects Compilation Blog

"Theory of Quantum Mechanics, theory of Inflation, M-theory imply Multiverses. Probably We're a part of Infinity&Nothing" inno4321

Last edited by inno4321; February 25th, 2013 at 02:24 AM.
inno4321 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2013, 10:09 AM   #1160
blacktrojan3921
Yes, that is my face~
 
blacktrojan3921's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Regina, SK
Posts: 399
Likes (Received): 88

Well to be fair Munwon, a lot of projects around the world, especially grand scale projects similar to this had either been stalled or completely de-railed by the 2008 economic collapse.
blacktrojan3921 no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:31 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu