daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old June 24th, 2009, 04:12 PM   #41
shpirtkosova
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,373
Likes (Received): 6

The problem is that yellow is not a scary color if you know what I mean, red is a symbol of heat and danger and so is triangle, both mix very well.... If I looked at a yellow diamond, I would never take it as a warning sign, maybe i'm not used to it.
shpirtkosova no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old June 24th, 2009, 04:49 PM   #42
ardmacha
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 112
Likes (Received): 1

Would this scare you?
ardmacha no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 25th, 2009, 12:26 AM   #43
Gareth
Keltlandia
 
Gareth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 8,879
Likes (Received): 66

I prefer yellow diamonds actually. I think the colour, shape and surface area is superior. I also like the idea of leaving red to regulatory signs.
Gareth no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 25th, 2009, 01:36 PM   #44
Norsko
Urban Citizen
 
Norsko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Drammen
Posts: 418
Likes (Received): 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sponsor View Post
You also have yellow center line, dividing two lanes of opposite directions. How do you deal with this in case of temporary signage? Same situation in Finland.
Actually I do not think we have any kind of temporary road markings. Maybe we should start to use red a a temporary colour on them.
__________________
_________
Norsko no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 25th, 2009, 01:42 PM   #45
deranged
okay then
 
deranged's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 6,415
Likes (Received): 167

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gareth View Post
I prefer yellow diamonds actually. I think the colour, shape and surface area is superior. I also like the idea of leaving red to regulatory signs.
I agree on all counts. Yellow diamonds are better for distinguishing between warning and regulatory signs imo.
deranged no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 25th, 2009, 09:15 PM   #46
mgk920
Nonhyphenated-American
 
mgk920's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Appleton, WI USA
Posts: 2,583
Likes (Received): 68

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norsko View Post
Actually I do not think we have any kind of temporary road markings. Maybe we should start to use red a a temporary colour on them.
In the USA, 'temporary' road markings are the exact same as the permanent ones. They just 'erase' (grind or strip off) the ones that are not in effect.

Mike
mgk920 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 25th, 2009, 10:08 PM   #47
nerdly_dood
Possibly Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 951
Likes (Received): 42

I tend to think of America's signs as marginally better:
- Our yellow diamond signs are usually larger and easier to read
- Different colors and shapes are used for certain purposes:
> Yellow: Warning [Traffic hazards mostly] - Usually a diamond if it's a freestanding sign; if it shares space with a guide sign then it's a separate rectuangular portion of the sign painted yellow
> Red: Stop [Includes "Do Not Enter" and "Wrong Way" signs as well as "Stop" signs]
> White: Regulations [Speed, parking restrictions, etc]
> Green: Guide signs
> Blue: Information
> Brown: Tourist attractions
> Orange: Construction
> Bright give-y'a-headache yellow: School zones/crossings [Usually in a pentagon shape like this]

The yellow diamond gives more room for larger images or text, too so they can be read more easily.

There are some European pictorial signs that are utterly incomprehensible to me:
- The "No Parking" sign just tells me "No!" without specification
- The "No Stopping" sign just tells me "HELL NO YOU IDIOT!!" without specification
- The "No Passing" sign tells me "Attention: Black and red cars ahead"
- That yellow and white diamond sign tells me absolutely nothing.

The speed limit signs are roughly equal IMO, but the European one requires more thinking, whereas the American one explicitly states what it means. (Perhaps the US could start using the same European speed limit signs, except in MPH, and add "Speed Limit ##" text?)

One thing the American signs could improve upon is the "Watch for Fallen Rocks" sign - that would be very easy to put in pictorial form. I also think we could use their "Congested highway" signs a bit more often - there aren't many, and when there is one it's text-based. There are some text-based signs that I can't think of an easy way to turn into a pictorial sign, such as "School bus stop ahead" which AFAIK has no European equivalent since they dont rely on school buses nearly as much as we do.
__________________
A government's primary duty is to protect and advance the three most fundamental human rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. These rights imply the additional right to prudently guarded stupidity.

Socialism never took root in America because the poor there saw themselves not as an exploited proletariat, but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires. -John Steinbeck

Last edited by nerdly_dood; June 25th, 2009 at 10:17 PM.
nerdly_dood no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 25th, 2009, 11:09 PM   #48
Danielk2
DanielKK
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Dronninglund
Posts: 670
Likes (Received): 2

Quote:
such as "School bus stop ahead" which AFAIK has no European equivalent since they dont rely on school buses nearly as much as we do.
The reason why we in Europe (or at least Denmark) don't use so many schoolbuses, is that the students take public buses, like other people. We don't have any buses reserved for schools. And our "schools buses" don't have those stupid STOP-signs on them like the american ones, so we can just overtake those slow old buses driving 40mph outside the freakin' towns!!
Danielk2 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 25th, 2009, 11:10 PM   #49
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,569
Likes (Received): 19356

In the Netherlands, nearly all students go on their bicycle to school... Only long-distance students take the bus or train. Some students age 11 - 16 cycle 30 - 40 km per day to get to school... how brave is that.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 25th, 2009, 11:28 PM   #50
Danielk2
DanielKK
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Dronninglund
Posts: 670
Likes (Received): 2

Don't those kids have to leave home very early to go to school?
Danielk2 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 25th, 2009, 11:30 PM   #51
Fuzzy Llama
Puszysty samiec lamy.
 
Fuzzy Llama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Skierniewice/Warszawa
Posts: 741
Likes (Received): 8

Quote:
Originally Posted by nerdly_dood View Post
I tend to think of America's signs as marginally better:
[...]
- Different colors and shapes are used for certain purposes:
> White: Regulations [Speed, parking restrictions, etc]
Yeah, right:
]

The worst thing in American signage is HIDEOUS amount of text. You use three words ("RIGHT LANE ENDS") where a single bent arrow is better understandable, more legible from greater distances and takes much less space. And there is more. I know that every user of an American road know English and can understand the sign, but the fact is that pictorials can be faster interpreted from greater distances.

And putting the text on diamonds is just wrong. They accomodate pictorals very well, but there is simply not enough horizontal space for text. Use the God damned pictures!

Quote:
There are some European pictorial signs that are utterly incomprehensible to me:
Well, those signs (apart from "no passing" sign) were created a looong time ago and they are imprinted in the general culture. 10 y.o. european kid just know what they mean. Everyone agree that there is no connection between their image and meaning, but they just do very well
Fuzzy Llama no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 25th, 2009, 11:41 PM   #52
Danielk2
DanielKK
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Dronninglund
Posts: 670
Likes (Received): 2

Yeah, everybody knows their meaning. And when all European roadsigns are almost identical (they do have small differences), it's easy for everybody to understand, even if you are in a country where they don't speak your language. eg: a dane (like me) who doen't know anything about french, could go to france (our borders are open) and still be able to understand the road signs.
Danielk2 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 26th, 2009, 09:28 AM   #53
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,569
Likes (Received): 19356

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danielk2 View Post
Don't those kids have to leave home very early to go to school?
Yes, I had schoolmates who used the bus and train who had to leave home at 6.45 am to attend school at 9 am. And those who cycled long distances usually had to leave 1,5 hours before school started.

I was lucky, I lived 15 minutes of cycling time from school. Now I live even closer to work. Commuting time is just wasted time to me, whichever mode of transportation you use.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 26th, 2009, 09:47 AM   #54
Xusein
 
Xusein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Seattle
Posts: 26,172
Likes (Received): 10378

A sign is a sign to me...I'm used to US signage, but European signs are simple so I guess they work. Don't think it would make sense for us to convert ours though, if it's not broke don't fix it, like that random saying...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzy Llama View Post
Yeah, right:
The worst thing in American signage is HIDEOUS amount of text. You use three words ("RIGHT LANE ENDS") where a single bent arrow is better understandable, more legible from greater distances and takes much less space. And there is more. I know that every user of an American road know English and can understand the sign, but the fact is that pictorials can be faster interpreted from greater distances.
I kind of think that this point is a bit odd. Before you get your driver's license, you should know how all the signs and what they mean, so there really shouldn't be a problem. I don't encounter any problems with American signs, even when I'm driving too fast to read it.

As for the amount of text, most newer signs don't have as much as they used to.
That pic you provided is not common by any means, most would just say "NO PARKING".
Xusein no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 26th, 2009, 03:47 PM   #55
RawLee
Registered User
 
RawLee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Budapest
Posts: 9,447
Likes (Received): 1083

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Yes, I had schoolmates who used the bus and train who had to leave home at 6.45 am to attend school at 9 am. And those who cycled long distances usually had to leave 1,5 hours before school started.

I was lucky, I lived 15 minutes of cycling time from school. Now I live even closer to work. Commuting time is just wasted time to me, whichever mode of transportation you use.
You were lucky then,I had to commute about 2 hours a day by public transport(1 there and 1 back)...but it was fun,every month I used different routes to get home! In fact,my morning and afternoon routes were also different! Probably this is why I simply hate driving in the city.
RawLee no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 26th, 2009, 07:14 PM   #56
TheCat
IsraCanadian :)
 
TheCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,358
Likes (Received): 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xusein View Post
As for the amount of text, most newer signs don't have as much as they used to.
That pic you provided is not common by any means, most would just say "NO PARKING".
But I think this raises the important topic of standardization. This is one thing that is really strange here (I'm from Canada, but it's a similar story to the US, though a bit better), in that it seems that there is a subset of signs that are standard and used everywhere (like the stop sign, for example), and a fairly large group of signs that are just randomly "made-up" and placed by various jurisdictions.

This is one reason there is so much text - there aren't standard universally learned and understood signs for many situations, which simply necessitates the inclusion of random textual signs that "tell" you what to do. I think in Europe a sign does not have any legal meaning if it is not included in the official list of signs recognized by law. And this list is updated very rarely, only when amendments are made to the traffic laws.

In Canada I find the situation to be a bit better than in the US though. For example, you will rarely (or maybe even never, in many jurisdictions) see a "No Parking" or "No Stopping" textual sign. We use pictorial signs for these restrictions. However, in these cases I still prefer the European signs, as they are much larger and easier to see.

I also hate the excessive use of restriction signs that only apply at certain times of day. Functionally it makes sense to have such restrictions (HOV lanes, no left turns, no parking, etc.), but I think there should just be certain standard portions of the day, identified by colours or something else that can easily be identified.

I can't even begin to describe how many times I've approached an intersection with a "no left turn" sign (pictorial and easily visible) with a bunch of tiny text underneath telling me in detail when in fact I may not perform the turn. I should not have to spend more than 1-2 seconds analyzing a traffic sign.
__________________
Check out my driving videos on Youtube | Please visit the Highways & Autobahns forum
TheCat no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 26th, 2009, 08:09 PM   #57
Alex Von Königsberg
Registered User
 
Alex Von Königsberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Portland
Posts: 1,053
Likes (Received): 11

Quote:
Originally Posted by nerdly_dood View Post
There are some European pictorial signs that are utterly incomprehensible to me:
- The "No Parking" sign just tells me "No!" without specification
- The "No Stopping" sign just tells me "HELL NO YOU IDIOT!!" without specification
What kind of specification do you need? European signs could be supplemented with additional white rectangle that specify the time period when the sign is valid and any other useful information.

Quote:
- The "No Passing" sign tells me "Attention: Black and red cars ahead"
The new 2009 proposals to the MUTCD introduced a Canadian-style "No passing" sign that depicts two cars inside a red circle with the left car crossed out. So, you better get used to it, pal


Quote:
- That yellow and white diamond sign tells me absolutely nothing.
It is a very useful sign if you have a concept of the main road. In America, if there is no sign at the intersection, it means you have a priority. Not so in Europe where you have to have a sign that indicates you have a priority.

Quote:
The speed limit signs are roughly equal IMO, but the European one requires more thinking, whereas the American one explicitly states what it means.
A red circle around a number is not explicit enough for you? Really? When I had to learn various signs to pass my theoretical exam, this was the first one I memorised because it is the easiest to memorise. Actually, I had known this sign since early childhood

Quote:
One thing the American signs could improve upon is the "Watch for Fallen Rocks" sign - that would be very easy to put in pictorial form.
Guess what? It already exists in some states in pictorial form.
__________________
Go Cougs!
Alex Von Königsberg no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 26th, 2009, 08:37 PM   #58
Timon91
Error
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: just outside Germany
Posts: 5,783
Likes (Received): 46

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danielk2 View Post
Don't those kids have to leave home very early to go to school?
I've just finished high school and I've cycled to school for 6 years, 14 kms one way. Still there are people that have to cycle further.
__________________
My Flickr account.
Some of my photoseries: Northern Ireland, Prague, Boston, Alaska part 1, 2, 3, Smoggy Moscow, Warsaw, Wrocław, Kiev, Donetsk, Odessa and Chişinău.
Timon91 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 26th, 2009, 08:52 PM   #59
RawLee
Registered User
 
RawLee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Budapest
Posts: 9,447
Likes (Received): 1083

Quote:
Originally Posted by nerdly_dood View Post
> Red: Stop [Includes "Do Not Enter" and "Wrong Way" signs as well as "Stop" signs]

- The "No Passing" sign tells me "Attention: Black and red cars ahead"
So you know the basic meaning of "red",but you cant use it in practice. I guess the priority sign at narrow roads would be hell for you.

RawLee no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 26th, 2009, 09:00 PM   #60
Verso
Islander
 
Verso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ljubljana
Posts: 22,086
Likes (Received): 4749

Quote:
Originally Posted by nerdly_dood View Post
There are some European pictorial signs that are utterly incomprehensible to me:
- The "No Parking" sign just tells me "No!" without specification
- The "No Stopping" sign just tells me "HELL NO YOU IDIOT!!" without specification
- The "No Passing" sign tells me "Attention: Black and red cars ahead"
- That yellow and white diamond sign tells me absolutely nothing.
Pretty much everyone here knows these signs by heart. You know them by heart long before you even start driving.
Verso no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:01 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium