ST. JAMES' PARK - for NUFC-related "Off the field", "Stadium" and "Historical" issues

[Scarecrow]

If they took that roof off and managed to fit a cantilevered design on, it wouldn't be half as bad. Surely with modern technology it would be possible? While you're at it, hang some exec boxes from under the Top Balcony (like the media centre-extreme left, barely visible) and increase the rake of the family enclosure to create one massive lower tier.

[Immunda Leodis]

Originally Posted by Scarecrow

If they took that roof off and managed to fit a cantilevered design on, it wouldn't be half as bad. Surely with modern technology it would be possible? While you're at it, hang some exec boxes from under the Top Balcony (like the media centre-extreme left, barely visible) and increase the rake of the family enclosure to create one massive lower tier.

Despite the pillars, I still think it's a magnificent stand. I don't think the work on the lower tier is necessary to be honest and I don't think it would take too much engineering to make it pillarless as I think I'm right in saying that there could be a 'goal post' lattice type structure built up the sides and over the top to suspend the roof from (like at Ibrox and the Trent End at the City Ground), I also don't think it would be beyond the capabilities of modern engineers to create a line of exec boxes either below or extending from the upper tier.

I really don't know why Everton are pushing ahead with the flat pack ground / big Tesco. Surely the 'Park End' (I think that's right) could be doubled in size and the other 2 sides rebuilt with better facilities. It surely must be possible to sneak another 10,000 -15,000 seats in!!!!!

Could they also build over the roads behind the stands?

Would be a shame to lose a magnificent ground. I think Goodison is one of the biggest toilets I've ever been to, but as a lover of football I would hate to see Everton move!

[BeestonLad]

Why is everyone talking about one of the worst grounds in the premiership, I thought this thread was about SJP?

[Immunda Leodis]

Originally Posted by BeestonLad

Why is everyone talking about one of the worst grounds in the premiership, I thought this thread was about SJP?

Define 'worst'! I'm presuming that you would prefer stadiums in the style of Derby and Leicester?

[BeestonLad]

Originally Posted by Immunda Leodis

Define 'worst'! I'm presuming that you would prefer stadiums in the style of Derby and Leicester?

Id rather have a seat in either of those two stadiums then be stuck near one of those f*ck off columns blocking my view!

[Immunda Leodis]

Originally Posted by BeestonLad

Id rather have a seat in either of those two stadiums then be stuck near one of those f*ck off columns blocking my view!

Well I'd rather not have a seat at all as the atmosphere is miles better when everyone is stood up.

Yeah the columns aren't great but at least the ground has character, I've been to the vast majority of the new stadiums and they're all completely sterile, soulless and devoid of atmosphere and if Everton move it'll be exactly the same. Getting back on topic, one of the best things about St James park is that it's been modified over time and it still has a lot of character, that automatically lifts it above the vast majority of new grounds and I don't see why the same can be achieved at Goodison through renovation and piecemeal rebuilding.

[Dan_NUFC]

I'm with you mate, having visited a lot of stadiums in the UK, I love the likes of Villa Park and Goodison Park. The two grounds have bags of character and the way the fans are packed in, it makes you feel like you're at a Football match. On the other hand you have grounds like The Walkers Stadium and The Ricoh Arena, they just have nothing to them. The fans are far apart, the stands are boring, the fans are too far from the pitch, the atmosphere is usually shocking and there's nothing around the ground. You go to Goodison and there are loads of pubs around the ground, loads of places to go and have a bit craic on. You go to the Riverside and there's nothing there, just a poor, boring, soulless bowl in the middle of neewhere.

I've seen people slate SJP for being uneven, that's laughable in my opinion. The two big stands are massive and you'll not find anything similar in Europe. Then the East stand is smaller and older, and the same with the Gallowgate End, yes the two halves of the ground are different sizes but as you say it gives the stadium character and it still keeps that modern feel.

I'd love it if Goodison was modified in the same way too, same with White Hart Lane.

[bigchrisfgb]

Just woundering with the news that SJP will be in the list for potential host stadium weather or not the expansion plans will go ahead anytime soon.

[Geordie Ahmed]

No chance of any expansions happening under the current regime - Ashley wont be spending any extra money

Also i dont think its needed - i think for now 52,000 is just right. Until their is sound investment in the team and the club is ran properly and the fans are not being treat like mugs we wont need a 60,000 seater stadium

[hollow man]

Zero chance. Its not needed at all.

[Newcastle Historian]

Transferred from the "Newcastle United Chat" thread . . .

Originally Posted by wj_gibson

22nd Dec 2009 - Wrong thread, maybe, but are there any photos of the pre-1906 St. James's Park extant anywhere? i.e. before building the barrel-roofed West stand. I'd be curiosu to know what the ground looked like in, say, 1895.

Originally Posted by Newcastle Historian

22nd Dec 2009 - The majority of 'early SJP' photos that I have seen are dated after the summer of 1905, when the bulk of construction of the West Stand was carried out.

I only have two photos from earlier than that, from the final years of the 19th Century, when development of SJP first took place . .





Both of the above photos are in the below book, Chapter One (1880 to 1900) . .

Originally Posted by wj_gibson

22nd Dec 2009 - Interesting pictures. There's a Mitchell and Kenyon film of NUFC vs. Liverpool at SJP from April 1901 on YouTube. It shows what the narrator (who sounds disconcertingly like Adrian Chiles) describes as "a previously unknown stand" on the Barrack Road side of the ground - one tier and quite a bit smaller than the 1906 construction. I always thought the narration was a bit dubious, but in-depth and reliable material concerning the very early SJP (and also the old Newcastle East End ground, which appears to have been around where the old cement works used to be at the bottom of my street in Heaton, just north of the Heaton Junction) seems to be thin on the ground. As is info about pre-SJP uses of the site (I seem to remember reading something about the SJP site being used for football-type games for some time previous to the formation of Ncl West End).

As someone new to local history, maybe that will be my first task in the archives.

[Newcastle Historian]

Originally Posted by wj_gibson

Interesting pictures. There's a Mitchell and Kenyon film of NUFC vs. Liverpool at SJP from April 1901 on YouTube. It shows what the narrator (who sounds disconcertingly like Adrian Chiles) describes as "a previously unknown stand" on the Barrack Road side of the ground - one tier and quite a bit smaller than the 1906 construction. I always thought the narration was a bit dubious, but in-depth and reliable material concerning the very early SJP (and also the old Newcastle East End ground, which appears to have been around where the old cement works used to be at the bottom of my street in Heaton, just north of the Heaton Junction) seems to be thin on the ground. As is info about pre-SJP uses of the site (I seem to remember reading something about the SJP site being used for football-type games for some time previous to the formation of Ncl West End).

As someone new to local history, maybe that will be my first task in the archives.

[bigchrisfgb]

Ok, I've just been doing some calculations, and this is what I have came up with.

If the Gallowgate end was extended to a mirror image of the Leazers end, that would add another 8,102 to the Gallowgate, which at a current capacity SJP of 52,387 would take capacity to 60,489. This would make SJP bigger then the Emirates Stadium which has a capacity of 60,355. This would mean that as things stand, SJP would be the 2nd biggest club ground in England.

However what I have not taken in to consideration is the fact that thier is a gap in the Gallowgate corner for Ambulance access, it is not known how many seats would be added if this gap was not there, so I cannot include that into the new Gallowgate. However I do imgaine it would more then likely be around the 1,000 mark, which if I'm correct would take capacity of SJP to 61,489. This would give SJP a bigger capacity then Celtic Park which has 60,837, which would then make SJP the 2nd biggest club ground in Britain as things stand.

[Newcastle Historian]

Originally Posted by bigchrisfgb

Ok, I've just been doing some calculations, and this is what I have came up with.

If the Gallowgate end was extended to a mirror image of the Leazes end, that would add another 8,102 to the Gallowgate, which at a current capacity SJP of 52,387 would take capacity to 60,489. This would make SJP bigger then the Emirates Stadium which has a capacity of 60,355. This would mean that as things stand, SJP would be the 2nd biggest club ground in England.

However what I have not taken in to consideration is the fact that thier is a gap in the Gallowgate corner for Ambulance access, it is not known how many seats would be added if this gap was not there, so I cannot include that into the new Gallowgate. However I do imgaine it would more then likely be around the 1,000 mark, which if I'm correct would take capacity of SJP to 61,489. This would give SJP a bigger capacity then Celtic Park which has 60,837, which would then make SJP the 2nd biggest club ground in Britain as things stand.

It's interesting to speculate, but I think we need to get back to our regular Champions League qualification days first, before extending the ground! At the very least, regular Europa League (former Fairs Cup/UEFA Cup) qualification, though (financially) I don't think that is enough, the Champions League is needed.

We were the second biggest ground for MANY years anyway recently (now the 3rd biggest).

We were the only English League club with a 50,000+ capacity stadium, apart from Old Trafford, for a long time, until Arsenal moved from Highbury a few years back.

For now, because of our truly pathetic on the field performances for the last three or four years . . we are only in the Second Division (no matter what it's called this week) after all . . I think what we have now is more than large enough (sadly).

[AngerOfTheNorth]

(Deleted)

[ph1l1p14]

I saw on the news today that Pink is opening her European leg of her summer tour in Sunderland this year. And apparently 2 to 3 more concerts are planned this summer.

Does St James's Park not want to host concerts, or is this a rule of the management etc not to host them???

[bigchrisfgb]

Originally Posted by ph1l1p14

I saw on the news today that Pink is opening her European leg of her summer tour in Sunderland this year. And apparently 2 to 3 more concerts are planned this summer.

Does St James's Park not want to host concerts, or is this a rule of the management etc not to host them???

We used to under FS's rule, but Mike Ashley hasn't seemed to of taken it on board. To be fair though we do have the Arena and the 02 Academy, along with the Civic Hall for shos though, and I think it was playing havock with our pitch aswell. I'm surprised that the SOL is getting more gigs though, their was terrible reviews about how hard it was to get there, the service, and how hard it was to get out aswell.

I think goes to show that if the Arena was redeveloped and extended to say about 20k then their would be no need for SOL or SJP to host concerts. The sooner the Arena is developed like that the better.

[Chatton11]

To be fair, I heard far more positive reviews about the shows at the SOL than the negative ones. My better half said there was absolutely no problem getting there on the metro

[Smash17]

Yeah, I heard good things about the SoL gigs last year. They usually have them in early June so the pitch will be fine again by the August.

[Newcastle Historian]

Originally Posted by Andrew

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the triangular shape of Time Central precicely to allow for the eventual creation of a pedestrian route from the junction with Percy St up to the stadium, as envisaged in these plans?

Originally Posted by Newcastle Historian

Following on from the above, this morning I have literally just discovered this 'different' sketch of what looks like those same (or very similar) plans . . this time with 'Wellbar House' seemingly still there (refurbished I assume) and with the addition of a 'super tall' looking HOTEL at the St James Metro site, right next to the station itself! This version was in the Journal of only about a month later on 6th July 1999. This time the plans were posted under the heading "UNITED plan landmark hotel on City Site" . . .


. . . . .

.............................. ....................................................

Even if (as Andrew says) the triangular shape of Time Central is designed to allow for the eventual creation of a pedestrian route from the junction with Percy St up to the stadium, I don't see how that can now work.

Unless the IBM building on the corner is redeveloped, and that seems unlikely.

The 'tree lined pedestrian route' and the 'glass atrium Metro station' are both great ideas though!