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Old November 17th, 2012, 10:02 PM   #881
Marbur66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groningen NL View Post
By eastern Europe Cujas probably means all the countries to the east of the former iron curtain. Which is understandable.
It's all a matter of perspective. For a Brit or Frenchman, Poland is in the east. Doesn't really matter, IMO.
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Old November 18th, 2012, 02:00 AM   #882
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marbur66

It's all a matter of perspective. For a Brit or Frenchman, Poland is in the east. Doesn't really matter, IMO.
We, Poles, are quite sensitive about that, even a bit insulted . We'd love to forget the Iron Curtain and geographically correct be called Central Europe. Luckily most atlasses place it under Central-Europe together with Germany and the Tsech Republic.

Anyway, great projects. Nice to see Warsaw booming .
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Old November 18th, 2012, 03:16 AM   #883
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To be honest, in North America, there is no huge negative meaning associated with the term Eastern Europe.
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Old November 18th, 2012, 12:09 PM   #884
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Originally Posted by rychlik
To be honest, in North America, there is no huge negative meaning associated with the term Eastern Europe.
My past experience tells me that there is. As in western Europe. Hopefully, nowadays perhaps not as huge as it used to be.

Something like: "Eastern Europe = backward, barbaric, benighted, dirty, xenophobic, desperately poor".

Specifically about Poland, three additional features: "Fanatically Catholic + anti-Semitic + freezing weather year-round".
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Old November 18th, 2012, 02:27 PM   #885
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Well "Fanatically Catholic" is not a typical stereotype about Eastern Europe at least.
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Old November 18th, 2012, 02:58 PM   #886
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Originally Posted by rychlik View Post
To be honest, in North America, there is no huge negative meaning associated with the term Eastern Europe.
It's more/all about unwareness, rather than something negative.
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Old November 19th, 2012, 05:53 AM   #887
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Originally Posted by Varsben View Post

Something like: "Eastern Europe = backward, barbaric, benighted, dirty, xenophobic, desperately poor".
Which shows you how stupid Western Europeans really are. The Iron Curtain did a lot of damage but it's been over 20 years. Maybe they should start traveling east more and educate themselves, expand their experiences. I thought Europe is supposed to be "united" with no borders. Just propaganda. The EU is doomed to fail anyways.
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Old November 19th, 2012, 08:09 AM   #888
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluminat
Well "Fanatically Catholic" is not a typical stereotype about Eastern Europe at least.
As I wrote: "Specifically about Poland, three additional features: "Fanatically Catholic..."

Take my advice and read carefully before you comment. Not the other way round.


Quote:
Originally Posted by thompsongda
It's more/all about unwareness, rather than something negative.
Regrettably, in various cases it's more than unawareness. The notion of inherent superiority over "Eastern Europe" is so deeply entrenched in the minds of some people from the West, that even a visit e.g. to Poland serves them for nothing more than reaffirming their arrogantly patronising attitude. Here's a typical example (from the French forum, post # 144):

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...=187663&page=8

To put it straight, here is that person's opinion about Warsaw and Poles:

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Et bien, voici mon opinion, j'ai passé la semaine à Varsovie:
- Ville hideuse de type soviétique, comme c'est souvent le cas en Europe de l'Est, les polonais en sont dégoûtés. Je les comprends.
- le business disctrict représenté n'a aucun espace publique, il est entrecoupés de routes à 2 fois 5 bandes, aucune norme d'urbanisme, et les ravages du masterplan soviéto-russe sont incommensurables.

Des décennies sont nécessaire afin d'arriver aux "standards" de l'Europe de l'ouest. 50 ans de communisme ont détruit cette ville. J'en suis marri. Les polonais méritent mieux. Le plus triste est que la ville a été reconstruite sur base d'un modèle soviétique. Cela prendra des décennies afin d'effacer les ravages de cette période. Oui, aujourd'hui, Varsovie, comme Berlin et bien d'autres, reste une ville hideuse selon les critères d'Europe de l'Ouest.

Mais les polonais sont charmants, très éduqués et à présent libérés de la tutelle soviéto-communiste.
According to him, Warsaw is "hideous", "Soviet-type" and needs decades to catch up with Western European "standards" (whatever that means).

Last edited by Varsben; November 22nd, 2012 at 08:00 AM.
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Old November 19th, 2012, 02:00 PM   #889
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Varsben View Post
As I wrote: "Specifically about Poland, three additional features: "Fanatically Catholic..."

Take my advice and read carefully before you comment. Not the other way round.
Stereotypes about Poland are different than typical stereotypes about Eastern Europe was my point. Although not necessarily those that you mentioned (most of them are shared by all poorer countries anyway).
If people in the West know stereotypes specific for Poland it's not so bad, Romania is even more religious and post-communist but now many people around the world know we have the biggest Jesus

Quote:
Regrettably, in various cases it's more than unawareness. The notion of inherent superiority over "Eastern Europe" is so deeply entrenched in the minds of some people from the West, that even a visit e.g. to Poland serves them for nothing more than reaffirming their arrogantly patronising attitude. Here's a typical example (from the French forum, post # 144):
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...=187663&page=8
To put it straight, here is that person's opinion about Warsaw and Poles:
According to him, Warsaw is "hideous", "Soviet-type" and needs decades to catch up with Western European "standards" (whatever that means). Of course, political correctness makes him add magnanimously that Poles are so "charming" and even "well-educated". Wow. They even managed to "free themselves from the Soviet-communist tutelage" (good to know). Obviously he's ready to admit that they're not living on trees (not anymore). How nice of him.
So what I remember reading more ignorant comments in Polish threads about Minsk, Moscow, Kiev and other parts of the world that we perceive as less developed, especially when some poorer areas are shown but when we can't see the slums we call it "propaganda" etc. people enjoy being patronizing and arrogant I guess.
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Old November 19th, 2012, 03:15 PM   #890
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluminat
Stereotypes about Poland are different than typical stereotypes about Eastern Europe was my point. Although not necessarily those that you mentioned (most of them are shared by all poorer countries anyway).
I don't see any big differences apart from those I mentioned (simplifying of course, there's no place here for lengthy academic discussions). The key is, an ordinary Frenchman, Englishman and other Europeans from rich countries keep perceiving Poland as an integral element of the now completely mythical "Eastern Europe". Post-communist, poor, xenophobic, backward, religiously fanatic, etc.

Btw, it doesn't take away my sleep. I think this stereotype will fade away.

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So what
That the still common opinions (e.g. the quoted one) are becoming quite amusingly distant from the truth, that's all.

Quote:
people enjoy being patronizing and arrogant I guess
I stick to my opinion that the Iron Curtain still exists... in the minds of many in the West.

Last edited by Varsben; November 21st, 2012 at 07:58 AM.
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Old November 24th, 2012, 10:20 AM   #891
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Zlota 44











Cosmopolitan Twarda













view from Wola district :

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Old November 24th, 2012, 11:17 AM   #892
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Old December 1st, 2012, 12:19 PM   #893
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Warsaw Western Train station + new office buildings

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Old December 6th, 2012, 01:25 AM   #894
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Warsaw Spire





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Old December 6th, 2012, 07:36 PM   #895
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Warsaw Western Train station + new office buildings
Don't be ridiculous. It's just some random office buildings. My basement looks better than this "train station".
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Old December 6th, 2012, 08:30 PM   #896
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thompsongda View Post
Don't be ridiculous. It's just some random office buildings. My basement looks better than this "train station".
What do you mean by that ? The office buildings are clearly on the unused parcels alongside rail tracks between the train/bus station and its own IT building. Station also seems to be in that place.
As for the looks, that station isn't the main one, only a hub connecting train and bus lines. It's not meant to be anything amazing, because the main structure is just a few meters away.
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Old December 6th, 2012, 08:53 PM   #897
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It's still way too small
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Old December 7th, 2012, 12:06 AM   #898
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great tower
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Old December 7th, 2012, 06:26 PM   #899
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Quote:
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It's still way too small
Well that underground station is just for trains and even as a whole, the western station hub isn't remotely as busy as the other ones. The main building itself is small, but apart from the most crowded holidays there isn't a single time you won't find yourself a place to sit down.
Anyway, I'm guessing that it will run all the way from the office buildings to the central structure and that is way too much space for that station.
The only thing that can be confusing is the overload of high-speed trains on the tracks - we don't use those
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Old December 9th, 2012, 09:24 AM   #900
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up
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