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Old October 7th, 2009, 12:38 AM   #2401
bleetz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gramercy View Post
nobody here knows the E numbers except lorry drivers
i dont expect its any different elsewhere in europe
Well its about time for everyone to find out!
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Old October 7th, 2009, 12:40 AM   #2402
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleetz View Post
Well its about time for everyone to find out!
its never gonna be like interstate numbers
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Old October 7th, 2009, 01:46 AM   #2403
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Originally Posted by gramercy View Post
i suppose you would prefer something like the slovenian network
There're more than 400 km of motorways with hard shoulders in Slovenia, which isn't bad IMO.
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Old October 7th, 2009, 04:13 AM   #2404
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So, anyways, what's up with the M3 construction east of Nyiregyhaza? That was supposed to start this year, right? I am disappointed that nothing has been announced so far... Any of you guys know any "concrete" details about the Nyiregyhaza - Vaja - Vasarosnameny motorway? Or are we just talking plain old bullshit here in the .hu forum in 2009? (i.e. no new construction starting for this year!)
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Old October 7th, 2009, 10:01 AM   #2405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdw35 View Post
So, anyways, what's up with the M3 construction east of Nyiregyhaza? That was supposed to start this year, right? I am disappointed that nothing has been announced so far... Any of you guys know any "concrete" details about the Nyiregyhaza - Vaja - Vasarosnameny motorway? Or are we just talking plain old bullshit here in the .hu forum in 2009? (i.e. no new construction starting for this year!)
I have an article from june which says that is going to be finished ´11-´12
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Old October 7th, 2009, 11:44 AM   #2406
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First it was a PPP project but the EU said no to the M4 (M0-Abony) motorway.
So M3 will be a EU fund project (the old tender was stopped, the new one is out in September 30) and M4 goes to PPP.
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Old October 7th, 2009, 12:00 PM   #2407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gramercy View Post
except comfort, safety, capacity, upgradability, speed and stature
Speed: Yes, 110 intead of 130. We loose 8 minutes in 100 km.

Safety: Can you post a study about this? Is there more accindent in these roads? (accident/1 million vehiclekm)
Capacity: If we raise max speed i don't think we can raise the capacity. And we will never reach the max capacity in these roads.

Upgradeability: It depends on planning. If we build them "future motorway" this won't be a problem.
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Old October 7th, 2009, 01:01 PM   #2408
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Speed: Yes, 110 instead of 130. We loose 8 minutes in 100 km.
In my opinion, thinking that way is a common mistake. That way, you can justify every speed limit lowering "because it's just a few minutes". What's more important is the credibility of a speed limit. People don't drive a certain higher speed because it saves time, but because the speed they drive feels comfortable with the road design.

In my opinion, speed limits should be based on the V85 percentile. That's a certain speed 85% of the motorists does not exceed. I have seen V85 values above 90 on Vmax=60 roads. Then something's wrong with the speed limit, it doesn't have credibility.
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Old October 7th, 2009, 02:53 PM   #2409
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
In my opinion, speed limits should be based on the V85 percentile. That's a certain speed 85% of the motorists does not exceed. I have seen V85 values above 90 on Vmax=60 roads. Then something's wrong with the speed limit, it doesn't have credibility.
But I think V85 depends on speed limit, isn't it?
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Old October 7th, 2009, 03:02 PM   #2410
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It's influenced by it (you have always people who drive strictly the speed limit, even if it's obviously too low), but it's not dependent on it.
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Old October 8th, 2009, 02:22 AM   #2411
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (HUN)RoGeR View Post
First it was a PPP project but the EU said no to the M4 (M0-Abony) motorway.
So M3 will be a EU fund project (the old tender was stopped, the new one is out in September 30) and M4 goes to PPP.
It's hard to buy that... but you are probably right, since M3 is on TEN-T / pEC V, while M4 is not even on TEN-T, so the EC may have frowned on using CF money on a non-TEN-T project.
The more stranger this is, since the KozOP (Transport SOP) was created, discussed with and approved by the EC a couple of years ago... and I assume that the list of projects contained at that time M4 as a CF-funded project and M3 as a PPP-project.

However, I find this really stupid, since the result is that both motorways got delayed by about one year.

But seriously, I knew that no new motorway will be finalized this year, but to see that also no new motorway construction starts this year? (no, M0 widening does not qualify as new motorway construction)

This is depressing, and it surely calls for some palinka...

Last edited by wdw35; October 8th, 2009 at 02:29 AM.
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Old October 8th, 2009, 08:53 AM   #2412
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As far as I know M4 was planned as part of the Central-Hungarian Operative Program (KMOP).

If M85 (Enese bypass) and M86 (Szeleste bypass and Vát-Szombathely) is a motorway then we started new sections.
We also started half-motorway (M9 51-53 and (future) M4 Kisújszállás bypass), and a new 6 km long shortcut section on M0 South.
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Old October 13th, 2009, 08:13 PM   #2413
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M0
image hosted on flickr


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Old October 13th, 2009, 08:36 PM   #2414
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so chris, you flew to budapest then rented a car?
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Old October 15th, 2009, 01:42 PM   #2415
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdw35 View Post
...but to see that also no new motorway construction starts this year? (no, M0 widening does not qualify as new motorway construction)
But according to Wikipedia, M4 between Püspökladány and RO Border is U/C since March 2009, its continuation on Romanian side is the A3 Transilvanian Motorway, which construction is making huge progress.
Also M3 between Nyíregyháza and Vásárosnamény is U/C.
Here the Wikipedia articles in Hungarian:
http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/M3-as_a..._(Magyarország)
http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/M4-es_a..._(Magyarország)
...and in German:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/M3_(Ungarn)
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/M4_(Ungarn)

And btw. the construction of M31 started at the beginning of this year and I have already seen photos of that construction, so that I am ensured that it is really U/C.
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Old October 15th, 2009, 01:57 PM   #2416
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M4 is the biggest mess in the whole country...

they started by ringroads of nr 4 that were 2x1, then later thought: hmm, maybe up it and build 2x2 but still just a main road

and now they continue to make a mess of it: the section close to Bp. will be 2x2 main road and the section east of the river Tisza is _supposedly_ going to be a 2x(2+1) highway, because it will connect to the future M8 there

its a mess, from the money we already spent we should have a proper highway from Ferihegy to Szolnok
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Old October 15th, 2009, 02:09 PM   #2417
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opfer View Post
But according to Wikipedia, M4 between Püspökladány and RO Border is U/C since March 2009, its continuation on Romanian side is the A3 Transilvanian Motorway, which construction is making huge progress.
Also M3 between Nyíregyháza and Vásárosnamény is U/C.
Here the Wikipedia articles in Hungarian:
http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/M3-as_a..._(Magyarország)
http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/M4-es_a..._(Magyarország)
...and in German:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/M3_(Ungarn)
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/M4_(Ungarn)

And btw. the construction of M31 started at the beginning of this year and I have already seen photos of that construction, so that I am ensured that it is really U/C.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gramercy View Post
M4 is the biggest mess in the whole country...

they started by ringroads of nr 4 that were 2x1, then later thought: hmm, maybe up it and build 2x2 but still just a main road

and now they continue to make a mess of it: the section close to Bp. will be 2x2 main road and the section east of the river Tisza is _supposedly_ going to be a 2x(2+1) highway, because it will connect to the future M8 there

its a mess, from the money we already spent we should have a proper highway from Ferihegy to Szolnok
Actually,the M35-Ro section is indeed in an advanced state(compared to other parts of it).
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Old October 15th, 2009, 09:33 PM   #2418
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Originally Posted by RawLee View Post
Actually,the M35-Ro section is indeed in an advanced state(compared to other parts of it).
Say what?
Could you please give us some more details?
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Old October 15th, 2009, 09:41 PM   #2419
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdw35 View Post
Say what?
Could you please give us some more details?
Only hungarian.
http://www.magyarorszag.hu/hirkozpon...v20090123.html

Planning of that section started in Q1. Shortest route is 121,7 kms,longest is 146,6 kms. "Exact" route is Püspökladány-Berettyóújfalu-Nagykereki-border.
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Old October 16th, 2009, 04:37 AM   #2420
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From what I understand, the planning should be finalized only by the end of 2011... That means the motorway itself won't be in use before 2013.

Second, this does not connect to the M35 in any way, sadly.
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