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Old December 13th, 2009, 02:06 PM   #2641
RawLee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pijanec View Post
You, city people.

1,5 meters wide per lane is already much. Similar roads in my region is 2-2,5 meters wide "both lanes". And 40 km/h is like the lowest acceptable speed.
Its not 1,5m per lane...its 1,5 lane(1 lane if we take motorway lane). 2 cars can barely fit,but if a bus comes,prepare to take the ditch.
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Old December 13th, 2009, 02:23 PM   #2642
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I'm not taking the ditch, let the bus take the ditch. There is no excuse for the existance of buses.
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Old December 13th, 2009, 02:26 PM   #2643
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Yeah, bus drivers think they rule the world. Let the bus take the ditch, and let the bus stop at stop signs!
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Old December 14th, 2009, 12:21 AM   #2644
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toomee View Post
Néhány kép az épülő szakaszról:

M6M9 csmp.-> "A" jelű alagút bejárata






















Why can't some parts be inaugurated? As Qtya mentioned in the Hungarian forum, it looks more ready/finished than the first section of the Transylvanian motorway when it was opened on the 1st of December. I mean what else needed to be done that takes almost 4 months? Pécs is the Capitol of European Culture from the 1st of January 2010! I mean I don't get it why we are wasting time with the inauguration? The main purpose of the road is to reach the CEC faster!
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Old December 14th, 2009, 01:08 AM   #2645
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They have to finish horizontal and add vertical signs, plenty of sections seem to lack fences and crashbarriers. Local roads and signs must be also modified. But this can be done within few weeks. Problem could be the tunnels. I don't know what is the current progress there, but although they may look almost finished from the outside, there can be loads of work to be done inside. They have to add lights, sings, cameras, ventilation, they have to equip the tunnels with all the security equipment, there must be finished also control centres. Everything has to be tested several times and bugs (there will be many) must be fixed. This can easily take months.
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Old December 14th, 2009, 01:30 AM   #2646
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Originally Posted by Qwert View Post
They have to finish horizontal and add vertical signs, plenty of sections seem to lack fences and crashbarriers. Local roads and signs must be also modified. But this can be done within few weeks. Problem could be the tunnels. I don't know what is the current progress there, but although they may look almost finished from the outside, there can be loads of work to be done inside. They have to add lights, sings, cameras, ventilation, they have to equip the tunnels with all the security equipment, there must be finished also control centres. Everything has to be tested several times and bugs (there will be many) must be fixed. This can easily take months.
Pix from the 24th of November... (already posted)




















But anyway, I wasn't thinking of the complete motorway development, but parts of it.
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Old December 14th, 2009, 02:58 AM   #2647
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyuszi View Post
Why can't some parts be inaugurated? As Qtya mentioned in the Hungarian forum, it looks more ready/finished than the first section of the Transylvanian motorway when it was opened on the 1st of December. I mean what else needed to be done that takes almost 4 months? Pécs is the Capitol of European Culture from the 1st of January 2010! I mean I don't get it why we are wasting time with the inauguration? The main purpose of the road is to reach the CEC faster!
no, its not a waste of time

they can't just cut a stripe and be done with it, they only started the process of certification, all the different government agencies will take their time to evaluate the results of the construction and then give the go-ahead

complaining about this now is the same as people complaining about the tunnels

even if they "only" inagurate this in 4 monts from now, it will still be the FASTEST construction in the country's history, less than 2 years from head to toe

and those who say this is because of political reasons: this section alone is more than what the right-wing government did in 4 years from 1998 to 2002...
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Old December 14th, 2009, 12:38 PM   #2648
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no, its not a waste of time

they can't just cut a stripe and be done with it, they only started the process of certification, all the different government agencies will take their time to evaluate the results of the construction and then give the go-ahead

complaining about this now is the same as people complaining about the tunnels

even if they "only" inagurate this in 4 monts from now, it will still be the FASTEST construction in the country's history, less than 2 years from head to toe
Not true! I asked my friends at KIKSz, and they told me the process should normally take one or not more than 2 months. In special cases (election coming up, etc), and if everything goes well, even shorter.

What you've written is ATV BS.

The real reason was the one that Aladar replied to the Bunny in the Hungarian version of this thread.

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Originally Posted by gramercy View Post
and those who say this is because of politicalcal reasons: this section alone is more than what the right-wing government did in 4 years from 1998 to 2002...
Who said anything like that? No need for your political BS here. We can argue about it in the Casual discussions form though.

Since the State is paying the PPP costs from the 1st of April, I can totally except the fact that it would be complicated to estimate how much we should pay if the developer inaugurates small separate sections earlier. But If the motorway could be opened in it's whole length lets say, from the 1st of February (or even the 1st day of March), I can't think of anything against it to open it earlier. Checking the new state budget, we should have funds for it in the reserve part. It's a national economy interest, don't you think? Or since you don't believe in nations, cas' Pécs is the ECC, than we could easily say without being much of a populist, it's a joint European interest too.
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Last edited by Qtya; December 14th, 2009 at 12:49 PM.
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Old December 14th, 2009, 12:43 PM   #2649
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Nah, the European Capital of Culture is just a bunch of city promotion. It wouldn't be the end of the world if M60 isn't completed by Q1 2010. Tourists don't show up until Q2 or Q3 anyway.
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Old December 14th, 2009, 12:48 PM   #2650
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Nah, the European Capital of Culture is just a bunch of city promotion. It wouldn't be the end of the world if M60 isn't completed by Q1 2010. Tourists don't show up until Q2 or Q3 anyway.
I know, but still no point of sitting on a finished motorway for 1 or 2 months, so only privileged could race on it. Or can you mention one?
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„A nemzet csak akkor remélhet egy jobb jövőben, ha polgárai képesek közös erőfeszítéssel felelősséget vállalni a közjóért.”

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Old December 14th, 2009, 04:06 PM   #2651
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Originally Posted by Qtya View Post
Not true! I asked my friends at KIKSz, and they told me the process should normally take one or not more than 2 months. In special cases (election coming up, etc), and if everything goes well, even shorter.

What you've written is ATV BS.
fine, then how about this: there were 2 tenders for 2 sections, at the MOST they could inaugurate it in 2 those two sections

its stupid to expect someone to buld a 100 kms and then inaugurate 2 30 and 8 kms of it while they are working on the rest

it is stupid to cry about in your estimation 2 more months when this will STILL BE THE FASTEST CONSTRUCTION IN THE HISTORY OF HUNGARY

Quote:
Who said anything like that? No need for your political BS here. We can argue about it in the Casual discussions form though.
I am not saying any political BS. The right-wingers in hungary ARE. Like the members of FIDESZ who actually wrote a letter asking for exactly this: opening some sections earlier AND stating that its a political tactic.



but keep on whining about it, it makes you look like a child
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Old December 14th, 2009, 04:39 PM   #2652
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gramercy View Post
fine, then how about this: there were 2 tenders for 2 sections, at the MOST they could inaugurate it in 2 those two sections

its stupid to expect someone to buld a 100 kms and then inaugurate 2 30 and 8 kms of it while they are working on the rest

it is stupid to cry about in your estimation 2 more months when this will STILL BE THE FASTEST CONSTRUCTION IN THE HISTORY OF HUNGARY
Did I mention anything like this? At least learn to read... A for Autobahn, B for Building, C for Construction, D for Development, etc. It was Nyuszi who wrote that...

Sitting on a finished motorway for two months is what... Logical?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gramercy View Post
its stupid to expect someone to buld a 100 kms and then inaugurate 2 30 and 8 kms of it while they are working on the rest
But if you mentioned it, even so I didn't...
Why? There are several examples for this. e.g. Austria, southern section of A2...

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Originally Posted by gramercy View Post
fine, then how about this: there were 2 tenders for 2 sections, at the MOST they could inaugurate it in 2 those two sections
Not true, but as I wrote it would be complicated.


Quote:
Originally Posted by gramercy View Post
I am not saying any political BS. The right-wingers in hungary ARE. Like the members of FIDESZ who actually wrote a letter asking for exactly this: opening some sections earlier AND stating that its a political tactic.

but keep on whining about it, it makes you look like a child
You are the only one mentioning this... I didn't even hear or read such a thing, I'm not saying it didn't happen, though. You are forcing this political BS here, not me, and I'm the child...
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„A nemzet csak akkor remélhet egy jobb jövőben, ha polgárai képesek közös erőfeszítéssel felelősséget vállalni a közjóért.”

II. János Pál pápa

Last edited by Qtya; December 14th, 2009 at 07:09 PM.
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Old December 14th, 2009, 04:58 PM   #2653
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gramercy View Post
fine, then how about this: there were 2 tenders for 2 sections, at the MOST they could inaugurate it in 2 those two sections

its stupid to expect someone to buld a 100 kms and then inaugurate 2 30 and 8 kms of it while they are working on the rest
I'm not an expert so there is no need to be so ironical about it.
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Old December 14th, 2009, 06:47 PM   #2654
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If they opened them 2 monts before, then the same people would complain about the government taking risks and not doing thins properely. They'd say they are endangering the lives of people for political reasons. I bet you any money.
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Old December 14th, 2009, 07:08 PM   #2655
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If they opened them 2 monts before, then the same people would complain about the government taking risks and not doing thins properely. They'd say they are endangering the lives of people for political reasons. I bet you any money.
It depends only on how you present it.

Developer: "Thanks to the government's well organized and first class cooperation, we could concentrate on nothing else, but our job, to build an excellent motorway for the ongoing success of Hungary, this is why we have finished M6-M60 1(-2) month(s) earlier. Etc"

Gov.: "We did everything we could to deliver a first class motorway to Pécs the European City of Culture as we've promised it to the citizens, and we've done it. Thanks to the X.Y. developer and the fine work of our experts and bureaucrats in cooperation with the project we all together achieved this goal 1(-2) month(s) earlier than suggested, in favor of the prosperity of Hungary. Etc."
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„A nemzet csak akkor remélhet egy jobb jövőben, ha polgárai képesek közös erőfeszítéssel felelősséget vállalni a közjóért.”

II. János Pál pápa
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Old December 14th, 2009, 09:38 PM   #2656
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Originally Posted by Nyuszi View Post
The main purpose of the road is to reach the CEC faster!
LOL.

this must be the most stupid purpose to build a motorway...
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Old December 14th, 2009, 09:51 PM   #2657
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LOL.

this must be the most stupid purpose to build a motorway...
I think she meant the Nr1 propaganda reason.
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II. János Pál pápa
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Old December 14th, 2009, 09:57 PM   #2658
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I think she meant the Nr1 propaganda reason.
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Originally Posted by Nyuszi View Post
Nagyon jó képek. Köszönjük! Lenne egy kérdésem. Nem lehetne átadni az elkészült szakaszokat idő előtt? Pécs Európa Kultúrális Fővárosa Január 1-jétől. Laikusként nem látom értelmét a várakozásnak. Nem azért épül (másodorban) a pálya, hogy az EKF-et el tudjuk érni? Mit kell még ezen majd 4 hónapig csinálni? Az M7-is szakaszokban készült el, nem? Ott is meg lehetett oldani.
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...7&postcount=39

I knew I saw that she has written something like that earlier somewhere..
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„A nemzet csak akkor remélhet egy jobb jövőben, ha polgárai képesek közös erőfeszítéssel felelősséget vállalni a közjóért.”

II. János Pál pápa
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Old December 14th, 2009, 09:58 PM   #2659
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Originally Posted by Qtya View Post
It depends only on how you present it.

Developer: "Thanks to the government's well organized and first class cooperation, we could concentrate on nothing else, but our job, to build an excellent motorway for the ongoing success of Hungary, this is why we have finished M6-M60 1(-2) month(s) earlier. Etc"

Gov.: "We did everything we could to deliver a first class motorway to Pécs the European City of Culture as we've promised it to the citizens, and we've done it. Thanks to the X.Y. developer and the fine work of our experts and bureaucrats in cooperation with the project we all together achieved this goal 1(-2) month(s) earlier than suggested, in favor of the prosperity of Hungary. Etc."
no, it depends on what the people spreading misinformation do

like the people criticizing the viaduct and the tunnels not realizing that both alignment was selected during the last government
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Old December 14th, 2009, 10:06 PM   #2660
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no, it depends on what the people spreading misinformation do

like the people criticizing the viaduct and the tunnels not realizing that both alignment was selected during the last government
Disinformation is a common political tool, to influence undecided voters. You shouldn't be shocked about that.

"Undecided voters are the biggest idiots on the planet..."



BTW half of the so called "professionals/experts" were against the tunnels, so I'm not blaming the public, nor the politicians. It's very easy to provide pix and videos where the hill (we should agree, that it's not a mountain for sure ) seems very small, or the opposite.

Anyway, AFAIK I wasn't against the tunnels.
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II. János Pál pápa
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