daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old April 15th, 2010, 08:56 PM   #3021
H123Laci
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Budapest, HUN
Posts: 1,647
Likes (Received): 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRible View Post
**** off Budapest. It sucks the living blood out of the country.

nope.

the opposite is true: budapest support the countryside with huge amount of tax money...

these megalomanic M8 and M9 projects would be huge waste of money and they would suck money from much more important developments...
H123Laci no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old April 15th, 2010, 09:05 PM   #3022
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,569
Likes (Received): 19357

IMO, constructing motorways in the countryside also helps developing the countryside so it's less dependent of tax money from Budapest.
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old April 15th, 2010, 09:13 PM   #3023
H123Laci
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Budapest, HUN
Posts: 1,647
Likes (Received): 3

yeah, but not for AADT of 5000...

dont mix hungary with The Netherlands.

its pop density is 3 times lower and number of cars/1000 people is 2 times lower

the 1/3 of the population lives in budapest and its agglomeration so the pop. density on the countryside is more lower.

so there are no need for motorways yet, well maintaned main roads are enough...
H123Laci no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 15th, 2010, 09:44 PM   #3024
gramercy
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,823
Likes (Received): 799

these two should tell you exactly where and in what order we need to build motorways:
http://www.kti.hu/uploads/images/Tre...odik/2-350.jpg
http://www.kti.hu/uploads/images/Tre...odik/2-360.jpg
gramercy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 15th, 2010, 10:32 PM   #3025
TheRible
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 165
Likes (Received): 85

Quote:
Originally Posted by gramercy View Post
these two should tell you exactly where and in what order we need to build motorways:
http://www.kti.hu/uploads/images/Tre...odik/2-350.jpg
http://www.kti.hu/uploads/images/Tre...odik/2-360.jpg
It reminds me the resonings of the 80s. There had been 9 bridges accross the Danube between Győr and Mohács (Komárom, the 6 Budapest bridges, Dunaföldvár and Baja.

Of course similar trafic measures showed that the bridges in Budapest are overloaded. Conclusion: there must be more bridges in Budapest to build.

Is it your logic too?

What a crap! Jesus.

Budapest is a tax collector and not a tax giver. Is that clear to you?
It collects the money from the whole country, then first spends on itself and if there is anything left, it distributes around the country.

In Budapest there is not any single production facility left (well almost, you got two farmaceutical companies). All the rest are ministries, authorities, theaters and other tax spenders. YOU DO NOT PRODUCE real money! shitkickers (I know I am wrong. Even PR agencies produce GDP , only you cannot live on that if there is noone to produce money to spend on PR)
TheRible no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 15th, 2010, 10:36 PM   #3026
TheRible
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 165
Likes (Received): 85

Quote:
Originally Posted by H123Laci View Post
nope.

the opposite is true: budapest support the countryside with huge amount of tax money...

these megalomanic M8 and M9 projects would be huge waste of money and they would suck money from much more important developments...
Kido, if a whole and shorter ring is bult to the Balkans, who the hell would go towards Budapest? Eh? Which road will be busier?

Yeah, I know. The present measurements, countings show otherwise. Sure.
TheRible no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 15th, 2010, 10:47 PM   #3027
TheRible
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 165
Likes (Received): 85

Quote:
Originally Posted by H123Laci View Post
yeah, but not for AADT of 5000...

dont mix hungary with The Netherlands.

its pop density is 3 times lower and number of cars/1000 people is 2 times lower

the 1/3 of the population lives in budapest and its agglomeration so the pop. density on the countryside is more lower.

so there are no need for motorways yet, well maintaned main roads are enough...
1/3 of the population lives in Budapest. Yes, exactly this is what proves my point. Budapest is trangling the country. Why is it necessary for 1/3 of the population to move to Budapest?

I would be the first to go home to Pécs if I could. And I belong to the majority. But this bastard city is the enviest, greediest city on Earth. It does not know limits, it does not see the countries interest, and it just does not care. It just wants all! And it has the power to take it. I supppose I do not need to cite examples.

It sucks the living blood out of the country.
TheRible no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 15th, 2010, 10:56 PM   #3028
gramercy
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,823
Likes (Received): 799

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRible View Post
It reminds me the resonings of the 80s. There had been 9 bridges accross the Danube between Győr and Mohács (Komárom, the 6 Budapest bridges, Dunaföldvár and Baja.

Of course similar trafic measures showed that the bridges in Budapest are overloaded. Conclusion: there must be more bridges in Budapest to build.

Is it your logic too?

What a crap! Jesus.

Budapest is a tax collector and not a tax giver. Is that clear to you?
It collects the money from the whole country, then first spends on itself and if there is anything left, it distributes around the country.

In Budapest there is not any single production facility left (well almost, you got two farmaceutical companies). All the rest are ministries, authorities, theaters and other tax spenders. YOU DO NOT PRODUCE real money! shitkickers (I know I am wrong. Even PR agencies produce GDP , only you cannot live on that if there is noone to produce money to spend on PR)
I will not argue with an idiot who thinks that the service sector is not producing "real money".
gramercy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 16th, 2010, 12:12 AM   #3029
Mateusz
Registered User
 
Mateusz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 6,536
Likes (Received): 235

Yeah take this you stupid, selfish bloodsuckers from Budapest !

But for real, can someone cut out couple of last posts ?
Mateusz no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 16th, 2010, 08:15 AM   #3030
RawLee
Registered User
 
RawLee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Budapest
Posts: 9,447
Likes (Received): 1083

Well,I know for a fact that both NABI and Ikarus produces in Budapest,and the company I work for also produces things you can touch.
RawLee no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 16th, 2010, 08:51 AM   #3031
H123Laci
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Budapest, HUN
Posts: 1,647
Likes (Received): 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRible View Post
Kido, if a whole and shorter ring is bult to the Balkans, who the hell would go towards Budapest? Eh? Which road will be busier?

Yeah, I know. The present measurements, countings show otherwise. Sure.

1. backbone network is not for to be short, but to connect significant cities (>1M)
so some detour from the straight line is acceptable.

2. on the belgrade-praha-dresden route the M9 wouldnt be shorter than the M5-M0-M1 route at all.

3. the international and regional transit traffic is very low compared to the local traffic around budapest. (5-10%)

so its diversion woudnt help on budapest at all...

(but at least it would be VERY-VERY expensive... )

conclusion: backbone network have to be built on mental basis not on emotional basis...

Last edited by H123Laci; April 16th, 2010 at 09:00 AM.
H123Laci no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 16th, 2010, 08:55 AM   #3032
H123Laci
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Budapest, HUN
Posts: 1,647
Likes (Received): 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mateusz View Post
Yeah take this you stupid, selfish bloodsuckers from Budapest !

But for real, can someone cut out couple of last posts ?


sorry, but we are gypsies, we debate very rude way...
H123Laci no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 16th, 2010, 10:47 AM   #3033
KaaRoy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Budapest
Posts: 80
Likes (Received): 2

One incredible feature of the road network is that the recommended route between the Czech Rep. and Kosice, Slovakia leads you practically in front of my house in Central Budapest.
KaaRoy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 16th, 2010, 10:49 AM   #3034
gmbh
Registered User
 
gmbh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 944
Likes (Received): 3

interesting communication

I guess the first map is about traffic density in 2007, but about what is the 2nd map ?

I agree with ChrisZwolle, motorways helps developing the countryside, but I agree with H123Laci too, motorway for 5.000 cars/day is waste of money.

gramercy, the service sector is for who ? for local people in budapest, for tourists etc...they have M1 and another motorways...budapest needs no other motorways but good suburban public transportation for many people in agglomeration who work, study, shop in BP. or do you want to build motorway to every village near BP ? that´s ridiculous.

so I think the most important motorways to build are now in countryside - M8-M4 with connection to transylvania motorway U/C. there are sufficient traffic density and significant cities. this "middle motorway" takes many cars from line M1-M0-M3, helps developing the countryside, makes better connection with other countries. then widening main roads to 4 lane, for example road E65 or road 21 etc...
gmbh no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 16th, 2010, 11:00 AM   #3035
KaaRoy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Budapest
Posts: 80
Likes (Received): 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by gmbh View Post
interesting communication

I guess the first map is about traffic density in 2007, but about what is the 2nd map ?

I agree with ChrisZwolle, motorways helps developing the countryside, but I agree with H123Laci too, motorway for 5.000 cars/day is waste of money.

gramercy, the service sector is for who ? for local people in budapest, for tourists etc...they have M1 and another motorways...budapest needs no other motorways but good suburban public transportation for many people in agglomeration who work, study, shop in BP. or do you want to build motorway to every village near BP ? that´s ridiculous.

so I think the most important motorways to build are now in countryside - M8-M4 with connection to transylvania motorway U/C. there are sufficient traffic density and significant cities. this "middle motorway" takes many cars from line M1-M0-M3, helps developing the countryside, makes better connection with other countries. then widening main roads to 4 lane, for example road E65 or road 21 etc...

Agreed. M8 - M4 is the most burning problem.
KaaRoy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 16th, 2010, 11:09 AM   #3036
gmbh
Registered User
 
gmbh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 944
Likes (Received): 3

Quote:
One incredible feature of the road network is that the recommended route between the Czech Rep. and Kosice, Slovakia leads you practically in front of my house in Central Budapest.
yes, it´s result of Slovak motorway planning. We want something (so called northern route) which can´t handle to this day. Slovakia has 2 big agglomerations and another 5 "big" cities (but less than 100.000 inh.) northern line has a few small cities extra, but the cost-benefit rate is terrible because of tunnels and viaducts.

comparison ....imagine motorway budapest-debrecen through bekecsaba....what is the correct formulation for it ?
gmbh no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 16th, 2010, 12:00 PM   #3037
Atza
Registered User
 
Atza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Szeged, HUNGARY
Posts: 286
Likes (Received): 19

Quote:
Originally Posted by H123Laci View Post
yeah, but not for AADT of 5000...
Road construction by AADT is a basically wrong theory. The traffic density depends on the current road network. The good quality corridors allure even that traffic which would chocie other way if it could. I drive from Szeged to Balaton on M5-M0-M7 because driving accross Hungary on tragic condition main and low class(!) roads (because of the holes of the main road network) is a nightmare. If I could use M9 or M8 I would never drive accross bp any more
Atza no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 16th, 2010, 01:27 PM   #3038
Atza
Registered User
 
Atza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Szeged, HUNGARY
Posts: 286
Likes (Received): 19

The biggest problem with rural roads is not the quality of the pavement and also not 90 kmph speed limit, the problem is the slow traffic (lots of tractors, bikes, etc). Slow traffic usually not prohibited on second class roads so you always have to overtake, the trip is stressful and tiring and you cannot reach more than 70 kmph average speed.
Atza no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 16th, 2010, 02:41 PM   #3039
gramercy
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,823
Likes (Received): 799

my thinking is this: hungary is a country deeply in debt
we should spend the money where it has the most bang, where it returns the most the quickest

therefore i think the most important figure is capacity: we should only build new roads where the capacity is exceeded, but we should build those very quickly (bypasses, M10 for example) and everywhere else we should concentrate on rebuilding the already existing network

we should definitely not build full profile motorways for 10-30 % capacity (M44, M3 after Nyiregyhaza), because that means 70-90 % of the money is not producing any return


if i had any say, i would
- resurface 20.000 kms of secondary roads in 8 years
- resurface 8.000 kms of main roads in 4 years
- build 2.000 kms of new main roads (~500 bypasses) in 4 years

- build express roads ONLY where the capacity demands it and chose the proper type (full profile, half profile or 2x2 main road)

this latter category in my mind right now demands:
- M0 south widening
- M0 west
- M10 with Aquincum bridge
- M2 second half
- M85 from Gyor-Sopron
- M86 from Csorna-Szombathely
- M80 from Varpalota-Ajka
- M4 from Budapest-RO
- M43 from Mako-RO

everything else at this point would be less productive
gramercy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 17th, 2010, 10:30 AM   #3040
H123Laci
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Budapest, HUN
Posts: 1,647
Likes (Received): 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atza View Post
Road construction by AADT is a basically wrong theory.
The traffic density depends on the current road network. The good quality corridors allure even that traffic which would chocie other way if it could. I drive from Szeged to Balaton on M5-M0-M7 because driving accross Hungary on tragic condition main and low class(!) roads (because of the holes of the main road network) is a nightmare. If I could use M9 or M8 I would never drive accross bp any more

yeah.
and I would travel by helicopter if I had a million dollars...
but I hadnt.

why do you want to solve the problem of the absence of main road maintenance and construction with ghost motorways?

main road building and maintenance is MUCH more cheaper than motorway building and maintenance.

dont forget the basic rule: MOTORWAYS ARE FOR TRAFFIC and not instead of mainroad maintenance and construction...

I tell you what a nightmare is: it is travelling on a fine motorway and leaving it finding yourself on a disastrous main and rural road network.

thas a nightmare. (and a ridiculous road politics...)


Quote:
The biggest problem with rural roads is not the quality of the pavement and also not 90 kmph speed limit, the problem is the slow traffic (lots of tractors, bikes, etc). Slow traffic usually not prohibited on second class roads so you always have to overtake, the trip is stressful and tiring and you cannot reach more than 70 kmph average speed.

yeah.
we have to build rural and dirt roads for slow traffic and tractors.

they are MUCH-MUCH cheaper than motorways.

Last edited by H123Laci; April 17th, 2010 at 12:26 PM.
H123Laci no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
budapest, highways, hungary, motorways

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:25 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium