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Old June 22nd, 2010, 05:52 PM   #3361
H123Laci
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Is it possible for you to write a post without a "lol" smiley?
NO!
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Old June 23rd, 2010, 10:04 AM   #3362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H123Laci View Post
(a 3km section at the M6xM0 IC was widened to 2x3+e 2 years ago when this IC was opened...
It was widened but not opened, the 3rd lane is still closed in both direction.

But on M0 East there are short sections with 2+3 and 2x3 in operation (not only climbing lane)




Last edited by Atza; June 23rd, 2010 at 10:14 AM.
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Old June 23rd, 2010, 10:37 AM   #3363
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the M4?
yes, when it´s not prepared we can max. talk about it. I check the maps...road 4 has complete most of bypasses. roads with bypasses on lowland has capacity between 15-20.000 AADT. so when they complete the preparation, the construction will be start. nobody doubts M4, don´t make a tragedy....

Quote:
were there frequent traffic jams and congestions?
what is traffic jam ? waiting 5 min.or 10 min. ? the question is how much time and lives saves M6 compared to road 6. this the benefit/price ratio.

in case of M0, do you really think 10/11/M2<->M1/M7/M6 destinations will generate 40.000 AADT ?, and do you think about how much time and lives saves the M0 west compared to M0 east (2x) -south (2x3) ?
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Old June 23rd, 2010, 12:51 PM   #3364
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atza View Post
It was widened but not opened, the 3rd lane is still closed in both direction.
yeah, I know that...

Quote:
But on M0 East there are short sections with 2+3 and 2x3 in operation (not only climbing lane)
they are not real traffic lanes but collector/distributor lanes between ICs which are close to each other...
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Old June 23rd, 2010, 01:13 PM   #3365
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Originally Posted by gmbh View Post
yes, when it´s not prepared we can max. talk about it. so when they complete the preparation, the construction will be start.
Bingo! you hit the nail on the head: they prepared (10 years ago) the M6 instead of M4.
(and prepared the M4 as a 2x2 mainroad instead of motorway)

this was a serious mistake...

now they can start it (almost) from ZERO.

thats the problem what i'm talking about...


Quote:
I check the maps...road 4 has complete most of bypasses.
as I said: it misses 7 bypasses (while the MR6 misses 2)

Quote:
roads with bypasses on lowland has capacity between 15-20.000 AADT.
thats right.
so the MR4 is OVERloaded while the MR6 has spare capacity...


Quote:
in case of M0, do you really think 10/11/M2<->M1/M7/M6 destinations will generate 40.000 AADT?
no.
transit traffic is only part of the whole traffic.
the other (bigger) part is the local and commuter traffic...

the whole traffic will be around 40.000...


Quote:
and do you think about how much time and lives saves the M0 west compared to M0 east (2x) -south (2x3) ?
probably it saves less time...

so it was a good decision to build the M0E and M0S first...

Last edited by H123Laci; June 23rd, 2010 at 01:19 PM.
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Old June 23rd, 2010, 01:14 PM   #3366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H123Laci View Post
they are not real traffic lanes but collector/distributor lanes between ICs which are close to each other...
At M3 IC it's real 2x3 but very short (I think the closed M6 2x3 is longer)...
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Old June 23rd, 2010, 02:47 PM   #3367
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this serious mistake... doesn´t mean breaking another constructions...
RKC wrote "it (road 4) isn't worse to drive than road 6...". so it logically means, road 4 has higher traffic, but road 6 has lower capacity.

Quote:
no.
transit traffic is only part of the whole traffic.
the other (bigger) part is the local and commuter traffic...
local and commuter traffic from where to where, from one suburban zone to another ? our D4 east will take only 20% of 100.000 AADT althought this is lowland with perspective to build logistic zones etc...motorway through hills, forests, protected areas can only dream about good benefit/price ratio. so I think building tunnels and many bridges is required by a concrete-lobby.

Quote:
price doesnt matter.
only for reach countries.
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Old June 24th, 2010, 12:05 AM   #3368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H123Laci View Post
3x3? NO!

but, 2x3+e YESSS!

(a 3km section at the M6xM0 IC was widened to 2x3+e 2 years ago when this IC was opened...
the widening of the rest of the southern sector (M1-M5) is U/C)
OK 2x3+e Thank you very much.
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Old June 24th, 2010, 06:44 AM   #3369
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atza View Post
At M3 IC it's real 2x3 but very short (I think the closed M6 2x3 is longer)...

no, its only a climbing lane for the overpass...
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Old June 24th, 2010, 07:42 AM   #3370
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmbh View Post
RKC wrote "it (road 4) isn't worse to drive than road 6...". so it logically means, road 4 has higher traffic, but road 6 has lower capacity.
nope.
"it logically means", he was talking about his (prejudiced) personal experience...

capacity is the same, maybe the MR6 a little bit higher... (less through sections)


Quote:
local and commuter traffic from where to where, from one suburban zone to another ?
yes.
and from the agglomeration to the city.

many people thinks that beltways are used only by transit traffic.

but this is not the case.

they are used mainly by local and commuter traffic.

this is why its forecasted traffic is often underestimated...


Quote:
motorway through hills, forests, protected areas can only dream about good benefit/price ratio.
I think that luring away 40.000 cars from local and city roads and making their travel significantly faster worth the price of 18km motorway on hilly terrain...

Quote:
so I think building tunnels and many bridges is required by a concrete-lobby.
bridges can be made of steel, so dont leave out the steel and welding lobby...

and do you know who want to make the tunnels longer than needed?

you wont guess: the greenies!

they are the most affective agents of the concrete-lobby...


Quote:
only for reach countries.
nope.

try to understand: price does NOT matter. benefit/price ratio DOES matter

an example: what would you build from 100mill. eur?

- a new bridge which reduces the travel time for 50.000 driver by 10minutes and another 50.000 by 10minutes by reducing congestion on affected roads... (benefit: 1.000.000 minutes and fuel saving)

or

- 20km new motorway which reduces the travel time for 5.000 driver by 8minutes... (benefit: 40.000 minutes and no fuel saving)

the first one?

why?

it is 20 times more expensive!!! (100M/km <-> 5M/km)

Last edited by H123Laci; June 24th, 2010 at 07:49 AM.
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Old June 24th, 2010, 09:17 AM   #3371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H123Laci View Post
no, its only a climbing lane for the overpass...
how humorous you are
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Old June 24th, 2010, 09:55 AM   #3372
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Old June 24th, 2010, 11:01 AM   #3373
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thx for the summary...
Im happy that you are sooo intrested in my ssc activity...
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Old June 24th, 2010, 11:02 AM   #3374
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Quote:
"it logically means", he was talking about his (prejudiced) personal experience...
and you are talking about what ? for example we have road I/65 nitra-zlate moravce with cca 15.000 AADT and all bypasses and road I/18 zilina-ruzomberok with cca. 20.000 AADT, but despite of the average speed is comparable and I/65 is more dangerous road.

Quote:
and from the agglomeration to the city.
...throught bypass ?? ... have you read what you write ?

Quote:
try to understand: price does NOT matter. benefit/price ratio DOES matter
you have x bil. but you need xy bil...and do you think the benefit/price ratio will pay the difference ?

sorry but I don´t know you are a funmaker or do you consider your (obvious) priorities first of all ?
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Old June 24th, 2010, 11:20 AM   #3375
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atza View Post
how humorous you are
ok, lets be serious:

that overpass section above M3 is not a REAL 2x3...

it was planned to be a C/D lane for the M3xM0 cloverleaf IC, when it was partially built in 1998.

but plan has changed and they have built a separate C/D road, so the M0 overpass above M3 became unnecessarily wide...

although they painted it 3 lanes wide it has no sense: its too short for overtaking and the 2x2 has quite enough spare capacity...
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Old June 24th, 2010, 11:50 AM   #3376
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmbh View Post
and you are talking about what ? for example we have road I/65 nitra-zlate moravce with cca 15.000 AADT and all bypasses and road I/18 zilina-ruzomberok with cca. 20.000 AADT, but despite of the average speed is comparable and I/65 is more dangerous road.
interesting paradox...

but comparing MR4 and MR6 the former has higher traffic and is more dangerous according to statistics...


Quote:
...throught bypass ?? ... have you read what you write ?
yes. (and yes)

its better to reach a high capacity (and speed) artery throu the beltway (even if it is a detour), than to get your downtown destination on heavily congested local/city road...

heres an example...

reaching the destination thru M0+M3 is 8km longer, but much faster and more convenient but its not more expensive, because fuel consumption is significantly lower...

if you want to reach a suburb the advantage of the beltway is even more compared to local roads or a journey across the city...

Quote:
you have x bil. but you need xy bil...and do you think the benefit/price ratio will pay the difference ?
if I have no enough money I got credit.

But I do not decide to make/buy a cheaper but much less useful thing...

Last edited by H123Laci; June 24th, 2010 at 11:58 AM.
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Old June 24th, 2010, 12:41 PM   #3377
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but comparing MR4 and MR6 the former has higher traffic and is more dangerous according to statistics...
really ?... our I/18 zilina-ruzomberok has an interval 12-23.000, but the most controversal = the most expensive section has unfortunately 23.000 AADT but I/65 has worse statistics too. difference is 8.000 AADT. I saw your map AADT, the difference MR4-6 is almost the same.

Quote:
heres an example...
no-no-no...wait... this is an example from eastern part....please don´t try fooling me...you cannot applicate this to BP west....different geographics, demographics, industrie atc... Neither I want to D4 north because of traffic from east....

Last edited by gmbh; June 24th, 2010 at 01:31 PM.
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Old June 24th, 2010, 01:11 PM   #3378
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nope.
"it logically means", he was talking about his (prejudiced) personal experience...
oh, good thing you know ******* everything better than everyone else, isn't it?
i tried having a sensible conversation, but i guess it's quite futile... never mind...

ah, nearly forgot:
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Old June 24th, 2010, 01:31 PM   #3379
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if I have no enough money I got credit.
it´s no way. crisis, debts....
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Old June 24th, 2010, 01:32 PM   #3380
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thx for the summary...
Im happy that you are sooo intrested in my ssc activity...
You should have only used 4 s instead of 5... You are not allowed to pass a level...
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