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Old September 5th, 2010, 02:13 PM   #3601
ChrisZwolle
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Nah, try France, there are many Autoroutes which are just as empty (20.000 vehicles per day or even less).
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Old September 5th, 2010, 06:40 PM   #3602
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Nah, try France, there are many Autoroutes which are just as empty (20.000 vehicles per day or even less).
AFAIK motorways are needed at AADT > 16.000, so at 20.000 vehicles per day it's OK to build a motorway (Autoroute).
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Old September 5th, 2010, 06:50 PM   #3603
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There could be various reasons to build a motorway, not only traffic counts.

M6 will be part of a major transportation corridor from the Baltic States to the Adriatic coast. It just takes time to fill such routes with traffic. I don't expect 50.000 vpd on M6 anytime soon, but it will get their share of traffic. Wait until we get more economic and infrastructural integration in central Europe and the GDP per capita reaches € 30.000
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Old September 5th, 2010, 06:54 PM   #3604
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By the way, I checked that utdata site, and I noticed the traffic on M1/M7 in Budapest jumped from 139.000 to 156.000 vehicles per day. That is quite an increase.
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Old September 5th, 2010, 06:58 PM   #3605
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
There could be various reasons to build a motorway, not only traffic counts.

M6 will be part of a major transportation corridor from the Baltic States to the Adriatic coast. It just takes time to fill such routes with traffic. I don't expect 50.000 vpd on M6 anytime soon, but it will get their share of traffic. Wait until we get more economic and infrastructural integration in central Europe and the GDP per capita reaches € 30.000
heh,

yea, sure, but in the meantime the lower section of M6 and M60 will get a sub-10k aadt so wouldn't you say we'd be better of if we spent the same amount of money on -say- M0, M2 and M10?
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Old September 5th, 2010, 07:01 PM   #3606
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Sure, but those decisions have been made a long time ago and cannot be reversed now.
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Old September 5th, 2010, 07:04 PM   #3607
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Where exactly is that empty part of M3?

I suppose near Nyíregyháza..
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Old September 5th, 2010, 07:14 PM   #3608
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seem View Post
Where exactly is that empty part of M3?

I suppose near Nyíregyháza..
You suppose good.
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Old September 5th, 2010, 07:14 PM   #3609
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Sure, but those decisions have been made a long time ago and cannot be reversed now.
yes, well, i wish i had your optimism:
- we did not spend money on M6/60, we took out a multi-billion eur loan (!) in the form of PPP for 30 years, and anyone foolish enough to trust the hungarian government for 3 decades makes sure they get their money. lots of it... i bet the amount of interest they charge would show nice on any spreadsheet..
- the croatians will do their part, but i havent the same hope for bosnia: i dont think there will be a 2x2 link all the way to dubrovnik anytime soon and even then dubrovnik as a port is not that big a deal
- and finally, the slovaks are not even planning a motorway connection to M10 near Esztergom, and even if they were, they surely wouldnt rush developing the hungarian habited parts...

but ure right, its all down the drains now, except for the payment until 2040...

oh well
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Old September 5th, 2010, 08:09 PM   #3610
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gramercy View Post
- and finally, the slovaks are not even planning a motorway connection to M10 near Esztergom, and even if they were, they surely wouldnt rush developing the hungarian habited parts...
Who knows, now every new goverment planns new motorways but don`t built it.

Btw, I suppose they wouldn`t rush developing because of no traffic. Where is traffic, there is pressure to start the construction. For example this goverment wants to start 20/30 km of R7 from Bratislava to Dunajská Streda (just Hungarian town) and also 17 km from Zvolen to Kriváň (OK that`s no hungarian but mind direction) and also some streches of R2 near Ožďany. Do you see now? I am also not happy for this against Hungarian and against Slovak politics but there is also real reason why there are no motorways.
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Last edited by seem; September 5th, 2010 at 10:43 PM. Reason: what was that? :D my english is really horrible sometimes
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Old September 5th, 2010, 08:24 PM   #3611
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seem View Post
Dunajská Streda (just Hungarian town)
You mean a town with 80% Hungarian ethnic majority.

Last edited by rarse; September 5th, 2010 at 08:29 PM.
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Old September 5th, 2010, 10:44 PM   #3612
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Of course. What was wrong with that : Dunajská Streda (just Hungarian town)?

just 15% of Slovaks and before WW2 there was 50% Jewish community
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Old September 5th, 2010, 10:56 PM   #3613
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gramercy View Post
yes, well, i wish i had your optimism:
- we did not spend money on M6/60, we took out a multi-billion eur loan (!) in the form of PPP for 30 years, and anyone foolish enough to trust the hungarian government for 3 decades makes sure they get their money. lots of it... i bet the amount of interest they charge would show nice on any spreadsheet..
- the croatians will do their part, but i havent the same hope for bosnia: i dont think there will be a 2x2 link all the way to dubrovnik anytime soon and even then dubrovnik as a port is not that big a deal
- and finally, the slovaks are not even planning a motorway connection to M10 near Esztergom, and even if they were, they surely wouldnt rush developing the hungarian habited parts...

but ure right, its all down the drains now, except for the payment until 2040...

oh well
As a continuation of M10 new bridge between Esztergom and Štúrovo would be enough because the current one is closed for freight traffic. From Štúrovo there are major roads in three directions: I/63 to Komárno (Bratislava) II/509 to Nové Zámky (Nitra, Bratislava) and I/76 to Levice (Zvolen) which will easily handle little traffic from M10. In this case short bypasses at the roads rather than continuous expressway would be enough. Similar to Hungarian road 3 between Miskolc and Slovak border.

Right now we have big traffic problems, we cannot afford construction of expressways for no traffic. Well, unfortunately we are doing that, U/C R4 between Košice and Hungarian border being the best example, but this is rare case (politic gesture).

On the other hand, I don't know if it's due to the lack of communication between our governments or other reasons, but Slovakia is still preparing as a north-south connection of Poland, Slovakia and Hungary expressway R3 which is supposed to end near Šahy and continue to Hungary as M2. There are no official intentions to reroute E 77 to M10.

This is a bit offtopic, but I also wouldn't say development of region inhabited by Hungarians is lagging behind development of other areas. R4 is U/C, some section of R2 are being prepared and quite big PPP project - R7 Bratislava - Dunajská Streda was just announced. This road will connect districts Dunajská Streda (115,399 inhabitants, 83 % Hungarians) and Komárno (106,876 inhabitants, 69 % Hungarians) to Bratislava. Eventually it will connect to the capital also district Nové Zámky (147,203 inhabitants, 38 % Hungarians). This area is together with adjacent districts (Senec, Galanta, Šaľa, Nitra), which already have very good connection to the motorway network, a place, where majority (300,000) Hungarians live.
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Old September 6th, 2010, 11:15 AM   #3614
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I think the actual priorities are the right way. new danube-bridge is needed much more near komarno, because motorway M1 is near there and our roads I/63 and 64 are able to handle the trucks. between esztergom-sturovo will be cargo-ferryboat I think sooner as komarno-komarom bridge. roads from sturovo are unusable and they need a lot of bypasses. the solution is the double tracked, electrified railway with perfect possibily of transit shed.


Quote:
This is a bit offtopic, but I also wouldn't say development of region inhabited by Hungarians is lagging behind development of other areas.
it os hard to say....maybe yes, maybe not. the northern connection west-east existed in past only during turkish wars as safety device. northern route (railway) was used for connection silesia-east. it is maybe about industrializeing of north-east. this regions are the poorest in 1st czechoslovakia and in hungarian kingdom too. industry is then good reason for road construction. in fact, past regime builded a lot of good roads everywhere (bratislava-komarno-nove zamky is maybe the best road in Sk), but not enough and motorway construction was tragical all over expect around Bratislava.

about development lagging of southern regions we can talk during meciarism (94-98), I have read, about 80-90% money for roads was spent in north. fico-government was very silimar : low speed preparation of R2, dilettantish variant of R7 bratislava sally road.
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Old September 6th, 2010, 01:44 PM   #3615
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
By the way, I checked that utdata site, and I noticed the traffic on M1/M7 in Budapest jumped from 139.000 to 156.000 vehicles per day. That is quite an increase.
Be careful: it's unit/day
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Old September 6th, 2010, 06:07 PM   #3616
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M6 Mohács - M9(Szekszárd)

Map:


Date of pics: 26/06/2010

1. Now on M6
image hosted on flickr

DSC08435 by hanzi13, on Flickr

2. Only the collector/distributor lanes were made here.
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DSC08436 by hanzi13, on Flickr

3.
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DSC08438 by hanzi13, on Flickr

4. Unusual overpass in Hungary. Lack of middle pillars.
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DSC08439 by hanzi13, on Flickr

5. About 1 and a half hour left.
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DSC08440 by hanzi13, on Flickr

6. Old speed limit, may be they removed it or it's operative only during wet surface.
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DSC08441 by hanzi13, on Flickr

7.
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DSC08442 by hanzi13, on Flickr

8. We have capacity
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DSC08443 by hanzi13, on Flickr

9.
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DSC08444 by hanzi13, on Flickr

10. Also an old limit.
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DSC08445 by hanzi13, on Flickr

11. Hímesházi árok viaduct, 491m long.
image hosted on flickr

DSC08447 by hanzi13, on Flickr

12.
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DSC08449 by hanzi13, on Flickr

13. End of the slanted section of the curve. (It isn't that worse, I zoomed it a bit.)
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DSC08450 by hanzi13, on Flickr

14.
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DSC08451 by hanzi13, on Flickr

15. Csele-patak viaduct (450m long)
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DSC08452 by hanzi13, on Flickr

16.
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DSC08453 by hanzi13, on Flickr

17.
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DSC08454 by hanzi13, on Flickr

18. Rest area (176, Szebényi pihenő)
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DSC08456 by hanzi13, on Flickr

19.
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DSC08457 by hanzi13, on Flickr

20. Szebényi viaduct (830m long)
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DSC08458 by hanzi13, on Flickr

21. Height control.
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DSC08459 by hanzi13, on Flickr

22.
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DSC08460 by hanzi13, on Flickr

23. Please slow down!
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DSC08462 by hanzi13, on Flickr

24.
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DSC08463 by hanzi13, on Flickr

25. 90km/h, hungarian tunnel speed limit... I hope the will rise it to 100km/h.
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DSC08464 by hanzi13, on Flickr

26. Unnecessary 60km/h... I think it was some bug in the system.
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DSC08465 by hanzi13, on Flickr

27.
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DSC08468 by hanzi13, on Flickr

28. It's forbidden to stop in the tunnel. + Imaginative tunnel name: Tunnel D...
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DSC08469 by hanzi13, on Flickr

29.
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DSC08470 by hanzi13, on Flickr

30.
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DSC08471 by hanzi13, on Flickr

31. Tunnel C, 865m long.
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DSC08472 by hanzi13, on Flickr

32.
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DSC08473 by hanzi13, on Flickr

33.
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DSC08474 by hanzi13, on Flickr

34.
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DSC08475 by hanzi13, on Flickr

35. Tunnel B, 399m long.
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DSC08476 by hanzi13, on Flickr

36.
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DSC08477 by hanzi13, on Flickr

37.
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DSC08478 by hanzi13, on Flickr

38. Tunnel A, 1331m long.
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DSC08479 by hanzi13, on Flickr

39.
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DSC08483 by hanzi13, on Flickr

40.
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DSC08484 by hanzi13, on Flickr

41. Rest area (Geresd, 164)
image hosted on flickr

DSC08485 by hanzi13, on Flickr

42.
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DSC08487 by hanzi13, on Flickr

43.
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DSC08489 by hanzi13, on Flickr

44.
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DSC08491 by hanzi13, on Flickr

45.
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DSC08496 by hanzi13, on Flickr

46.
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DSC08497 by hanzi13, on Flickr

47.
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DSC08498 by hanzi13, on Flickr

48.
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DSC08499 by hanzi13, on Flickr

49.
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DSC08500 by hanzi13, on Flickr

50.
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DSC08501 by hanzi13, on Flickr

51.
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DSC08504 by hanzi13, on Flickr

52.
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DSC08507 by hanzi13, on Flickr

53.
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DSC08508 by hanzi13, on Flickr

54. Bridge over Sió canal.
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DSC08509 by hanzi13, on Flickr

55.
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DSC08510 by hanzi13, on Flickr

56.
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DSC08511 by hanzi13, on Flickr

57. Cloverleaf IC with M9.
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DSC08512 by hanzi13, on Flickr

58. C/D lanes strart here.
image hosted on flickr

DSC08513 by hanzi13, on Flickr

59. Looking east to M9.
image hosted on flickr

DSC08515 by hanzi13, on Flickr
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Old September 6th, 2010, 06:52 PM   #3617
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look, a WHOLE truck
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Old September 6th, 2010, 07:27 PM   #3618
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gramercy View Post
look, a WHOLE truck



@ Falusi: great pics. Thanks.
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Old September 8th, 2010, 03:25 PM   #3619
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Cool photos, it's nice motorway. Of course if you ignore the little traffic and uselessness of the tunnels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gmbh View Post
I think the actual priorities are the right way. new danube-bridge is needed much more near komarno, because motorway M1 is near there and our roads I/63 and 64 are able to handle the trucks. between esztergom-sturovo will be cargo-ferryboat I think sooner as komarno-komarom bridge. roads from sturovo are unusable and they need a lot of bypasses. the solution is the double tracked, electrified railway with perfect possibily of transit shed.
Both bridges are needed, but I agree, the one near Komárno is probably more important. Road between Štúrovo and Komárno is useless for tranzit. On the other hand road II/509 has very low traffic and is outside built-up area (only 1-2 bypasses are needed). Road I/76 would need much more bypasses, but there's plenty of time to build them since the bridge in between Štúrovo and Esztergom is not going to be built soon and even after its completion traffic wouldn't exactly sky-rocket.

As you've said, interesting solution of E77 problems could be also RoLa trains from Budapest to Katowice or Kraków.
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Old September 8th, 2010, 08:55 PM   #3620
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The constructions between M3 and mainroad 49 is going to start very shortly.This is about 34 Km of motorway.
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