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Old December 29th, 2010, 07:16 PM   #3901
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
Because Ukraine is much bigger than northern Romania.
...its very big and very poor. Road 4 is in very good shape, and goes through no village if I remeber correctly (been there a few weeks ago). Its completely enough for now...
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Old December 29th, 2010, 08:21 PM   #3902
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However, M3 will lead to a completely uninteresting part of Ukraine where there are no major roads to the rest of UA. The whole area between Uzhhorod to Chernivtsy is kind of a remote area from a UA perspective. You have M06 at Uzhhorod and M19 near Chernivtsi, but no major roads in between, nor large cities.
Wait, why are you talking about Chernivtsi? That city is totally unimportant from a Hungarian point of view. And I don't know how you can say there's no major road there. M06 is a major road running from Hungary all the way to Kiev.

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Youre right. And to make my point clear: its completely idiotic with the last parts of M3. I mean every truck driver going to UA must use road 4 from Nyiregyháza. He has no other choice. So either M3 should go to Záhony, or to Satu Mare. The current road will end in nowhere, with no traffic :-)
I think it would be stupid to make a big curve just because of Uzhgorod. The motorway to Mukachevo should be straight. There's also more traffic going to Ukraine than Satu Mare, but M49 will lead there, so I don't see a problem.
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Old December 29th, 2010, 08:38 PM   #3903
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Wait, why are you talking about Chernivtsi? That city is totally unimportant from a Hungarian point of view. And I don't know how you can say there's no major road there. M06 is a major road running from Hungary all the way to Kiev.
That is exactly what I'm saying. M3 will serve the large remote area between M06 and M19 which does not have major roads linking to the rest of Ukraine. Therefor, Hungarian M3 should link to Ukrainian M06, and not the Mukacheve area.
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Old December 29th, 2010, 08:45 PM   #3904
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M06 runs through Mukachevo as well. When a motorway is built via Berehove, it will take the traffic from M06. Even if only Hungary builds M3, there's still a road continuing in Ukraine (although worse than M06).
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Old December 29th, 2010, 08:48 PM   #3905
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I actually meant Berehove, sorry

I doubt if there is enough long-distance transit traffic (L'viv - Budapest) to justify a large bypass of Uzhhorod via Berehove and Mukacheve. Apart from a few mid-sized towns, there is nothing east of Berehove. M06 turns north right after Mukacheve.
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Old December 29th, 2010, 09:02 PM   #3906
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I don't know, Uzhhorod is totally out of the way. It reminds me of the Romanian A1, which will make a big curve from Arad to Timişoara, which I don't like at all. It isn't suitable for transit traffic.
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Old December 29th, 2010, 09:06 PM   #3907
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
I don't know, Uzhhorod is totally out of the way. It reminds me of the Romanian A1, which will make a big curve from Arad to Timişoara, which I don't like at all. It isn't suitable for transit traffic.
If you look at the long term plan you will see that that curve is quite ok because A1 will split at Lugoj (north: Deva, Sibiu; south: Calafat, Craiova). So this way we will have Nadlac - Arad - Timisoara - Lugoj motorway that will be used by those going to central Romania and those going to southern part of the country.
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Old December 29th, 2010, 09:18 PM   #3908
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I don't think an M3-M06 via Uzhhorod is much more of a detour than M3-M06 via Berehove and Mukacheve. Especially since M06 could bypass Uzhhorod some kilometers to the southeast.
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Old December 29th, 2010, 09:27 PM   #3909
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Anyway, if you build M3 via Mátészalka, you need a shorter motorway to Romania, so Hungarians probably thought of that as well.
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Old December 30th, 2010, 12:07 AM   #3910
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwert View Post
Zakarpattia Oblast is not uninteresting at all. It's quite strategic region for Ukraine (this little Oblast borders 4 countries) - it is important from transportation point of view. Now it's mostly about railways, but importance of road transport will grow. You have to drive via Mukachevo if you want to get from Budapest to Lviv or Kiev. Ukraine will probably never generate as much traffic in Hungary as Romania, but motorway connection of H and UA definitely makes sense. Not to mention, 12% of inhabitants of Zakarpattia are Hungarians.
Well, it is up to Hungary to consider if those 156,600 Hungarians in Ukraine are more important than 1,431,807 Hungarians in Romania.
Zakarpatia Oblast has an important Romanian minority too. Still, Transylvania Motorway is heading straight to Hungary.

Last edited by nenea_hartia; December 30th, 2010 at 12:45 AM.
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Old December 30th, 2010, 12:30 AM   #3911
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nenea_hartia View Post
Well, it is up to Hungary to consider if those 156,600 Hungarians in Ukraine are more important that 1,431,807 Hungarians in Romania.
Zakarpatia Oblast has an important Romanian minority too. Still, Transylvania Motorway is heading straight to Hungary.
To make it clear, I think priority for Hungary should be connection to Romania. I just wanted to point out connection to Ukraine isn't totally unimportant.
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Old December 30th, 2010, 12:46 AM   #3912
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its all good and well to speculate

M3 will definitely go till Mateszalka, its being built right now
from there, 3 directions are almost certain: Zahony/Ungvar, Vasarosnameny/Beregszasz and Csenger/Szatmarnemeti


the point is, traffic volume is very low, road conditions are horrible, Vasarosnameny bridge had to be closed down for inspection because it cracked (!)

you get the idea

all that is needed is proper main roads, half profile of future sections
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Old December 30th, 2010, 01:02 AM   #3913
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M3 will become some kind of collector road for traffic from Eastern Slovakia, Ukraine and Northern Romania towards Western Europe.
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Old December 30th, 2010, 02:52 AM   #3914
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Exactly, and I think Romanians should be happy that the M3 will go via Mátészalka, because that way a motorway will surely reach it sooner than it would reach it, if M3 went to Záhony, and Mátészalka had to be reached by M49.
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Old December 30th, 2010, 11:36 AM   #3915
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About M3...

The earlier canceled tender was announced today again, for constructing the motorway between the future M49 interchange until the town of Vásárosnamény (268+000-279+900 km). This motorway section will be 11,9 km long and full profile.

The deadline for generating competing offers from different bidders is the 17th of February, 2011.

Annoucment of the winner: 15th of April, 2011
Signing of contract (hopefully): 5th of May, 2011
Deadline for the whole construction: 31st of December, 2012

http://www.nif.hu/hu/hirek/Hamarosan...out-Vasarosnam
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Old December 30th, 2010, 11:52 AM   #3916
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
That is exactly what I'm saying. M3 will serve the large remote area between M06 and M19 which does not have major roads linking to the rest of Ukraine. Therefor, Hungarian M3 should link to Ukrainian M06, and not the Mukacheve area.
At the town of Vásárosnamény M3 will split into two, heading towards Záhony (for sure) and the other branch will bypass these small settlements: Ilk, Vásárosnamény, Kisvarsány, Tiszaszalka, Gergelyiugornya, Vámosatya, Gelénes, Barabás

http://www.nif.hu/hu/fejlesztesek/gy...ny-orszaghatar
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Old December 30th, 2010, 12:37 PM   #3917
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And what about M8? Are there any plans for commencement of works in near future?

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Slovenia is a small country, so why is a motorway linking Budapest with it, and not Budapest with Kiev?

I think that we shoudn't compare countries by their size, but by the traffic, and I am almost sure that Romania brings more traffic to eastern Hungary than Ukraine.
As far as motorway connections to Slovenia and Croatia are concerned, the main objective was to connect Hungary with ports in Koper and Rijeka.
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Old December 30th, 2010, 12:56 PM   #3918
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Quote:
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And what about M8? Are there any plans for commencement of works in near future?
half profile from A-Kormend, 2x2 from Veszprem-Ajka

how near that future is nobody knows
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Old December 30th, 2010, 01:06 PM   #3919
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyuszi View Post
Is there a possibility of a potential political pressure towards the Romanian politicians from the Hungarian side to build the Transylvanian Motorway instead of the A1 by putting the M43 on hold, and favouring the M35? What do you think?

Maybe it’s just a conspiracy theory, since the last section of M43 has an already awarded EU funding.
I think the answer is in your own post:

Quote:
(Nevertheless, Index Online Hungarian news portal wrote yesterday, basing on the information provided by the National Information Developer, that the last 23 km of M43 between Makó and Nagylak will be built until May of 2013. So the call for tender will be announced next spring. (http://index.hu/gazdasag/magyar/2010...agyar_sztrada/) I'm kinda' sceptic though.)
The 63 km of 3C Section (Bors-Suplacu) of Transylvania motorway are planned to be delivered in 2012 (they are at 45% complete).

As nenea_hartia said, there is little or no money from the Government for TM starting next year/s, but I am pretty sure a financial arrangement, even a general one, has been reached with Bechtel for the continuation of works.
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Last edited by Le Clerk; December 30th, 2010 at 03:59 PM.
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Old December 30th, 2010, 03:02 PM   #3920
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Need4Weed View Post
As far as motorway connections to Slovenia and Croatia are concerned, the main objective was to connect Hungary with ports in Koper and Rijeka.
I know that this was the main objective, but what I wanted to say is that motorways are built because of traffic, and not because of "who is the biggest neighbour".
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