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Old January 12th, 2011, 08:19 PM   #3961
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Can someone estimate what capital will be reached by a motorway from Budapest first: Kiew or Bukarest? I mean the rest of Hungarys neighbouring countrys capitals can be reached on at least 2x1 expressways if I'm not mistaken (Ljubjana, Bratislava), and Belgrade will be 2x2 this year.

(okay, I can estimate quite good when romanian motorways are getting ready, but I have absolutely no clue how it looks like in the Ukraine. However I guess polish A4 will be the first motorway ever to connect Ukraine with the rest of Europe.)
The entire motorway between Budapest and Bucharest will be finished around 2020. But after 2015 there will be just 116km to be built, in the difficult mountainous area of the Carpathians, between Sibiu and Pitesti.
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Old January 12th, 2011, 08:36 PM   #3962
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The entire motorway between Budapest and Bucharest will be finished around 2020. But after 2015 there will be just 116km to be built, in the difficult mountainous area of the Carpathians, between Sibiu and Pitesti.
9 more years? It will be easier to get to Bucharest via Serbia and Bulgaria until then, I guess. Okay bulgarian A2 is also not very developed yet.
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Old January 12th, 2011, 11:26 PM   #3963
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why would someone take such a huge detour?
Anyway the motorway between Bucharest and Bulgaria won't be built sooner than the motorway between Bucharest and Hungary...

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Which is the actual price in euros for the 4 days hungarian vignette?
New price is for the 4-day vignette is 1650 HUF, that is about 6 EUR.
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Old January 12th, 2011, 11:45 PM   #3964
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack_Frost View Post
Can someone estimate what capital will be reached by a motorway from Budapest first: Kiew or Bukarest? I mean the rest of Hungarys neighbouring countrys capitals can be reached on at least 2x1 expressways if I'm not mistaken (Ljubjana, Bratislava), and Belgrade will be 2x2 this year.

(okay, I can estimate quite good when romanian motorways are getting ready, but I have absolutely no clue how it looks like in the Ukraine. However I guess polish A4 will be the first motorway ever to connect Ukraine with the rest of Europe.)
Hungarian M3 will stop 20 kms from the Ukrainian border at the town of Vásárosnamény in the winter of 2012.
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Old January 13th, 2011, 06:46 AM   #3965
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Hungarian M3 will stop 20 kms from the Ukrainian border at the town of Vásárosnamény in the winter of 2012.
I see. How does it look in the Ukraine? M06 comes also quite close to the HU border...
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Old January 13th, 2011, 06:47 AM   #3966
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why would someone take such a huge detour?
Anyway the motorway between Bucharest and Bulgaria won't be built sooner than the motorway between Bucharest and Hungary...
That was supposed to be a joke. Okay, not the best one, I admit. :-)
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Old January 13th, 2011, 11:34 AM   #3967
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Which is the actual price in euros for the 4 days hungarian vignette?
now it costs 1750 forints all year round for cars, which is 6.3 euros
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Old January 13th, 2011, 11:37 AM   #3968
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I see. How does it look in the Ukraine? M06 comes also quite close to the HU border...
They plan a motorway from Kiev to the Hungarian border where it will connect with M3 but not many details yet like dates etc.
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Old January 13th, 2011, 07:59 PM   #3969
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They plan a motorway from Kiev to the Hungarian border where it will connect with M3 but not many details yet like dates etc.
M3 will split at the town of Vásárosnamény. One branch (as M3) is planned to cross the Ukrainian border at the small settlement of Barabás, an the other branch at the major international border freight and passenger terminal of Záhony.
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Old January 13th, 2011, 08:07 PM   #3970
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The entire motorway between Budapest and Bucharest will be finished around 2020. But after 2015 there will be just 116km to be built, in the difficult mountainous area of the Carpathians, between Sibiu and Pitesti.
If they manage to sign a PPP this year for the section, as the new transport minister said, and should works start in 2012, then it should be ready by 2015. The Motorway Company is working on the PPP docs for the section, and in theory they could tender the PPP this year. Of course, these are all "ifs". It remains to be seen what will happen by the end of this year.
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Old January 13th, 2011, 10:25 PM   #3971
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Motorway in the mountains +PPP, did they find new huge oil fields in Romania?
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Old January 13th, 2011, 10:32 PM   #3972
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If they manage to sign a PPP this year for the section, as the new transport minister said, and should works start in 2012, then it should be ready by 2015. The Motorway Company is working on the PPP docs for the section, and in theory they could tender the PPP this year. Of course, these are all "ifs". It remains to be seen what will happen by the end of this year.
You have to take into account that the process for implementing a PPP can take much longer than a normal auction. After deciding the winner, the company must prove they have the necessary money. This can take around 6 months. If they can't the process is started again.. And the construction period will be around 4-5 years.
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Old January 13th, 2011, 11:05 PM   #3973
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You have to take into account that the process for implementing a PPP can take much longer than a normal auction. After deciding the winner, the company must prove they have the necessary money. This can take around 6 months. If they can't the process is started again.. And the construction period will be around 4-5 years.
The quest for finding the financing will take at least 9-12 months. That's why the initial try made by JV Vinci & Aktor failed: they couldn't find the money within 6 months. In my opinion, there will be no PPP signed and no other initiative of some sort to begin a motorway in the next at least two-three years. Unfortunately.
But let's hope there will be some pressure towards the gvt. to try to do something between Piteşti and Sibiu. But again, I won't see a motorway completed there in the next 8-9 years.
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Old January 13th, 2011, 11:30 PM   #3974
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The quest for finding the financing will take at least 9-12 months. That's why the initial try made by JV Vinci & Aktor failed: they couldn't find the money within 6 months. In my opinion, there will be no PPP signed and no other initiative of some sort to begin a motorway in the next at least two-three years. Unfortunately.
But let's hope there will be some pressure towards the gvt. to try to do something between Piteşti and Sibiu. But again, I won't see a motorway completed there in the next 8-9 years.
Yes, I completely agree. 2020 seems a fair deadline.
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Old January 14th, 2011, 12:16 AM   #3975
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Motorway in the mountains +PPP, did they find new huge oil fields in Romania?
PPP has nothing to do with oilfields.
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Old January 14th, 2011, 12:21 AM   #3976
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Originally Posted by panda80 View Post
You have to take into account that the process for implementing a PPP can take much longer than a normal auction. After deciding the winner, the company must prove they have the necessary money. This can take around 6 months. If they can't the process is started again.. And the construction period will be around 4-5 years.
I agree, but if they tender this year, the winner still has the time to find the money by next year ,and start works in 2012-2013 at the latest. Comarnic-Brasov works were scheduled to last for 3 years, so I don't see why Pitesti-Sibiu should last longer.

Anyway, this discussion is off-topic here. We should move it on the Romanian thread or forum.
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Old January 14th, 2011, 06:46 AM   #3977
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PPP has nothing to do with oilfields.
The PPP is the most expensive financing method.

normal financing:
M7 last sections (2009): 1,23 billion HUF/km
M3 Nyíregyháza-Vásárosnamény (now): 1 billion HUF/km

with PPP:

M6 second section: 3,2 billion HUF/km
planned M44 (2009): 6,26 billion HUF/km
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Old January 14th, 2011, 07:38 AM   #3978
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Why is M44 planed as PPP? The area where is going to be built is quite flat and I don't think that an expressway there can cost that much.
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Old January 14th, 2011, 07:53 AM   #3979
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The PPP is the most expensive financing method.
I know but this has nothing to do with oil. And PPP is not expensive if you think in economic terms. Because it includes financing costs it doesn't mean it is more expensive than other methods. The cost of construction per km is the same, the difference is made of financing costs which are not to be found in other non-financing projects. The question is what is better financially for a country: pay now to build now (non-PPP), build now and pay small amounts in installments for 30 years (PPP), or do nothing? Second may be more advantageous financially and budgetary.
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Old January 14th, 2011, 08:07 AM   #3980
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Why is M44 planed as PPP? The area where is going to be built is quite flat and I don't think that an expressway there can cost that much.
We stopped all PPP. Too expensive and increases the state debt only.
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