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Old June 21st, 2011, 06:01 PM   #4421
Attus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zsimi80 View Post
4 per mill... Almost dead by alcohol. And then really dead by accident.
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Old June 21st, 2011, 06:06 PM   #4422
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Fricking idiot. Why must he have taken others with him to the drive
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Old June 21st, 2011, 08:31 PM   #4423
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It isn't too busy, traffic on M70 is 8603 AADT. In Hungary are much more roads with higher traffic (for example main road 51 Taksony bypass: 20000+AADT and its just a secondary road...)

Btw as I see they lowered the speed limit on the 2x1 sections to 90 km/h due to alot of accidents:
Right now on our news: there were already 16 death person (including today accident) on M70 from 1.1.2011. Local residents demand upgrading M70 from 1x2 to 2x2 and they will close M70 next week for protests.

16 death in just 6 months is really a lot.
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Old June 21st, 2011, 09:30 PM   #4424
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Originally Posted by BND View Post
What is happening? Second fatal bus accident this week, and it's only Tuesday...
There are five victims, the Slovenian truck driver, and two drivers of the Romanian coach, and two passengers, and 23 injured. According to index.hu the coach driver fell asleep, who has just arrived from Spain the day before, and turned back immediately without having a rest...



Here you can find more pictures.
Nonsense, Atlassib is one of the major Romanian coach-transport companies and it is mandatory that long travels such as those to Spain have two drivers onboard (proof the fact that both of them were killed). I heard as well that the Slovak driver was indeed very drunk.
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Old June 21st, 2011, 09:43 PM   #4425
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Originally Posted by keber View Post
Right now on our news: there were already 16 death person (including today accident) on M70 from 1.1.2011. Local residents demand upgrading M70 from 1x2 to 2x2 and they will close M70 next week for protests.

16 death in just 6 months is really a lot.
You dont hear it on M2, which has a quadrillion more traffic. Nothing on main roads, which offer the same speed. Locals should blame the only thing responsible - the drivers. Besides, a crashbarrier never stops a full truck.
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Old June 21st, 2011, 09:55 PM   #4426
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Originally Posted by RawLee View Post
You dont hear it on M2, which has a quadrillion more traffic. Nothing on main roads, which offer the same speed. Locals should blame the only thing responsible - the drivers. Besides, a crashbarrier never stops a full truck.
I´m totally agree.
It can not be because of high traffic and expressway conditions!!!
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Old June 21st, 2011, 10:08 PM   #4427
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Besides, a crashbarrier never stops a full truck.
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Old June 21st, 2011, 10:11 PM   #4428
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You dont hear it on M2, which has a quadrillion more traffic. Nothing on main roads, which offer the same speed. Locals should blame the only thing responsible - the drivers. Besides, a crashbarrier never stops a full truck.
When Slovenia completed A5 (which continues into M70) and all transit traffic moved from main road to motorway, high yearly death toll dropped to almost zero in average. Probably not because of drivers only ...
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Old June 21st, 2011, 11:37 PM   #4429
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Bottom line, the density of traffic on M70 does not apply for 2x2, motorway standards, however I can see your point.
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 12:14 AM   #4430
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Of course, everyone knows a 2×4 motorway having 30m wide shoulders and a concrete wall in the middle is safer and more comfortable as well.
Unfortunately we have no oil in Hungary, we can't biuld such ways everywhere.
In Hungary we have lots of 2×1 ways having an AADT over 20 thousands. Altough I admit that for political reasons my country built at least 250 kms of poorly used motorways, I think we have much more important things than widening M70, and we are lack of eligible financial sources unfortunately.
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 12:55 AM   #4431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keber View Post
Right now on our news: there were already 16 death person (including today accident) on M70 from 1.1.2011. Local residents demand upgrading M70 from 1x2 to 2x2 and they will close M70 next week for protests.

16 death in just 6 months is really a lot.
Your news source got their facts wrong, actually 16 people died (in 8 accidents) on M70 since 2006, not January 2011. So it's 1 or 2 lethal accidents per year.

I'm not saying it's acceptable, but it's not nearly as bad as your news source claims.
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 09:39 AM   #4432
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Article about road safety in Hungary in the last 20 years

http://mycite.omikk.bme.hu/doc/103406.pdf
page 16-24 (Hungarian)

Main diagramms of the disquisition:

Fatal injuries in accidents (Number of death, not accidents)


Number of accidents with injuries (not fatal)


Changes of traffic volume


Risk of fatality


(Autópálya: Motorway
I. r. főút: 1st class main road
II.r. főút: 2nd class main road
Mellékutak: Minor roads)


So this two accidents are terrible but generally the road safety is much better than 10-20 years ago. Of course it's still not acceptable (as szutyok wrote), the aim is zero fatality but road safety is not so bad.

Last edited by Atza; June 22nd, 2011 at 01:23 PM.
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 01:12 PM   #4433
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 01:15 PM   #4434
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That's why you need to install good crash barriers. Nearly all examples of trucks running through crash barriers are from the cheap, flimsy, one-sided type. The ones used in the Netherlands are almost equally as strong as jersey barriers, plus they actually give, reducing the chance of motorists getting killed on impact. With jersey barriers, the car will have to take all force of impact, while with good crash barriers, the force of impact will be distributed over both, increasing the chance of survival.
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 01:28 PM   #4435
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 02:41 PM   #4436
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
That's why you need to install good crash barriers. Nearly all examples of trucks running through crash barriers are from the cheap, flimsy, one-sided type. The ones used in the Netherlands are almost equally as strong as jersey barriers, plus they actually give, reducing the chance of motorists getting killed on impact. With jersey barriers, the car will have to take all force of impact, while with good crash barriers, the force of impact will be distributed over both, increasing the chance of survival.
For example crashbarriers like this(M86 Vát bypass)?
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 02:49 PM   #4437
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They could be a tad wider. It all depends on the structural integrity and mounting. There also need to be some space in the median for the crash barrier to bend without getting into the driving lanes in the other direction immediately. That's the obstacle-free zone that is preferred anyway. This is correctly shown in your picture. It is even possible to have a single crash barrier if its structural integrity is up to the right standards.

The purpose of a crash barrier is not only to prevent cars getting into the other direction, but also to guide vehicles back into their direction, without getting the occupants killed. The second purpose is often overlooked when choosing jersey barriers. A third - minor - issue can be aesthetics and possibly noise reflection.
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 07:46 PM   #4438
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upgrading every single road to 2+2 won't help, when there are people driving trucks with deadly-high alcohol level
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 07:50 PM   #4439
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upgrading every single road to 2+2 won't help, when there are people driving trucks with deadly-high alcohol level
It would help some, but it would not be a complete solution. At the very least, it would eliminate or nearly eliminate head-on collisions.
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 03:57 PM   #4440
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no amount of safety-nazism is gonna protect you from morons who drink/drive themselves to the brink of passing out and then get behind the wheel

if these 2 accidents had happened just a couple of minutes/10 kilometers earlier, inside slovakia/slovenia on their 2x2s or later on the m1/7s then we would not be having a discussion about a middle barrier


for the kind of traffic volumes and the state of our budget, we should build a lot more, a lot more half-profiles just like the m70/15, instead we are bulding 2x2 main roads with shorter lengths, a lot of extra capacity, inferior speed and no possibility of upgrading to a full profile motorway when the traffic actually warrants it

of all the expressway/motorway projects in western hungary the m70/15 were the most rational projects, m85/86 is limping at a bloody slow speed because they are bulding 2x2 main roads with 3,5m lanes, no emergency lanes and 110km/h curves
instead they should be half profiles with 3,75m lanes alternating 2+1 directions on 130km/h alignment with level crossings/roundabouts - same money, 2-2,5x lengths, enough capacity for now and good upgradeability

Last edited by gramercy; June 23rd, 2011 at 04:03 PM.
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