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Old December 19th, 2015, 02:18 AM   #7121
mcarling
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Originally Posted by winnipeg View Post
About tolls, why are they so much expensive in Hungary?

I mean the anual e-vignette is 136€ while in Austria for example it is 85€ for 2016... it doesn't encourage travelers to buy the annual one.... while the weekly fee is almost the same in Austria and Hungary...
Hungary is a larger country than Austria and Hungary has greater need of money to build new highways. 136€ for an annual vignette seems like a very low price (a tiny fraction of the total cost of car ownership) to me.
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Old December 19th, 2015, 03:14 AM   #7122
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Hungary is a larger country than Austria and Hungary has greater need of money to build new highways. 136€ for an annual vignette seems like a very low price (a tiny fraction of the total cost of car ownership) to me.
Common! Hungary has almost the same superficy than Austria (only a difference of 9000km²), but Hungary has around 250km less highways than Austria, and Hungary has a very very great land configuration for such infrastructures compared to Austria with the Alps... Austria has probably also an highway maintenance cost much higher due to the way higher wages and other fees...

But you're right, Hungary needs to build a lot (but Austria also I think...), and they also need to repair highways like M1 which is becoming bad on some portions because of all the trucks that are coming...).

I was also thinking that maybe my comparison was bad because the Austrian motorway company ASFINAG was helped by the state, but I was surprised to see that it is 100% financed by tolls and with this they pay for everything from maintenance to investments and buildings...

Another interesting comparison is Romania, the Rovinieta is only 28€ (but is mandatory for all romanians roads) and Romania has almost 700km of highways compared to the 1470km in Hungary, the ratio is way different... (and Romania is building (or trying to at least...) a lot of new highways, and the geography of the country is not easy into the Carpatians...


Anyway, sorry for going so far... but about Hungary, I think that it would be interresting if there is any finantial report available from the state motorway company (if there is one), I tried to look but my hungarian is only limited to few words...
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Old December 19th, 2015, 10:58 AM   #7123
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Vignettes are a very poor instrument to finance roads anyway.

In Austria, ¾ of toll income is from trucks, not vignettes. Hungary is attempting pursue such a model as well with HU-GO.
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Old December 19th, 2015, 12:15 PM   #7124
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I guess the comparison of country size is indeed a bit superficial; if at all, you should compare what you get for the vignette, i.e. indeed the length of motorways*. Further, that should be somehow related to the GDP of that country, and then the difference felt by the people is way bigger...

I always felt that the price for the Austrian vignette is way too small anyhow; and the price increases they have are mostly adjustments to the inflation, but not reflecting the increased network, so the relation of the price of the vignette and what you get fails even within the country...

Regarding the financing, true, Hungary has a bigger need to catch up, and true, Austrian motorways were and are mostly built by tax money - but then again, many of Hungarys motorways are built greatly supported by EU funds... (and as said, the topography of the country makes it much easier for many of the motorways...)

So, I guess in any case, the comparison of prices between countries fails on too many aspects...

* for that comparison, for Austria you should also include most of the "Schnellstraßen", as most of them (and all the new ones) are built to motorway standards, then the difference is even bigger...
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Old December 19th, 2015, 01:51 PM   #7125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winnipeg View Post
nce of 9000km²), but Hungary has around 250km less highways than Austria,
Austria has about 2050 kilometers of full profile A and S roads. So we have about 600 kms ahead of us to catch up. However, I dont think Hungary needs more than max. 400 kms of motorways anymore (of which M4 and M0 are the biggest pieces of the cake).
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Old December 19th, 2015, 08:37 PM   #7126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
In Austria, ¾ of toll income is from trucks, not vignettes. Hungary is attempting pursue such a model as well with HU-GO.
Given that trucks are responsible for the overwhelming majority of road degradation and hence maintenance needs, this seems entirely fair and reasonable.
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Old December 19th, 2015, 09:10 PM   #7127
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Given that trucks are responsible for the overwhelming majority of road degradation and hence maintenance needs, this seems entirely fair and reasonable.
Exactly, I read somewhere that a truck equals 10.000 cars (or something like that) for a road in term of damages...

I also think that this is the reason why M1 is begining to have some bad portions (on right lane)...
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Old December 19th, 2015, 09:17 PM   #7128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rudiwien View Post
I guess the comparison of country size is indeed a bit superficial; if at all, you should compare what you get for the vignette, i.e. indeed the length of motorways*. Further, that should be somehow related to the GDP of that country, and then the difference felt by the people is way bigger...

I always felt that the price for the Austrian vignette is way too small anyhow; and the price increases they have are mostly adjustments to the inflation, but not reflecting the increased network, so the relation of the price of the vignette and what you get fails even within the country...

Regarding the financing, true, Hungary has a bigger need to catch up, and true, Austrian motorways were and are mostly built by tax money - but then again, many of Hungarys motorways are built greatly supported by EU funds... (and as said, the topography of the country makes it much easier for many of the motorways...)

So, I guess in any case, the comparison of prices between countries fails on too many aspects...

* for that comparison, for Austria you should also include most of the "Schnellstraßen", as most of them (and all the new ones) are built to motorway standards, then the difference is even bigger...
I don't think that Austrian vignette is too cheap, I only think that Asfinag is a very great public company which is healthy and have good practise, if a cheap vignette is enough to finance all the maintenance and the building of new higways, it's perfect!

You're right, a comparison by countries is not really possible... but at least it is possible behind the eye of the user like me that would travel accross those countries. Behind my eyes, traveling in Austria by the easy way (with anual vignette) is way more interesting (even more by considering the higher road quality at my opinion) than traveling accross Hungary... That's all!

Anyways, I just hope that hungarian motorway company will adjust the price of their anual vignette, if not, I will choose the regional ones!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JackFrost View Post
Austria has about 2050 kilometers of full profile A and S roads. So we have about 600 kms ahead of us to catch up. However, I dont think Hungary needs more than max. 400 kms of motorways anymore (of which M4 and M0 are the biggest pieces of the cake).
Right!
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Old December 20th, 2015, 01:39 AM   #7129
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Quote:
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I read somewhere that a truck equals 10,000 cars (or something like that) for a road in term of damages.
That seems about right.
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Old December 20th, 2015, 08:14 PM   #7130
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Hi, can someone explain if there is a some plan/schedule to make a motorway from Miskolc to SK border?.
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Old December 21st, 2015, 10:19 AM   #7131
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A short section near the border was tendered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by i15 View Post
http://ted.europa.eu/udl?uri=TED:NOTICE:374801-2015:TEXT:HU:HTML

public tender for short border section of M30. It will help, because current connection to slovak R4 is very slow with trucks driving at 20kmh
More: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...postcount=6699

M30: SK/HU border (Tornyosnemeti) – Tornyosnemeti 1.7km (2016? to 2018? (18 months)) – ? – map
M30: Tornyosnemeti – Miskolc-East ~60km (2016/17 ? to ?) – ? – map
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Which new motorways are currently under construction?
Which new motorways will be opened next?

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Been/driven: A, AND, B, CDN, CH, CZ, D, DK, E, EST, F, FIN, FL, GB, H, I, L, LV, LT, N, NL, P, PL, RO, S, SLO, USA (My cumulative travel mapping)

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Old December 21st, 2015, 06:27 PM   #7132
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thanks, only 1,7 km is not much, hopefully the other 60 km section will be tendered soon and both go for realization without the problems in 2016/2017
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Old December 21st, 2015, 07:45 PM   #7133
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thanks, only 1,7 km is not much, hopefully the other 60 km section will be tendered soon and both go for realization without the problems in 2016/2017
I think it is too optimistic....
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Old December 21st, 2015, 07:55 PM   #7134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winnipeg View Post
About tolls, why are they so much expensive in Hungary?

I mean the anual e-vignette is 136€ while in Austria for example it is 85€ for 2016... it doesn't encourage travelers to buy the annual one.... while the weekly fee is almost the same in Austria and Hungary...
it would be similar if Hungary would place toll plaza at Köröshegy viaduct, somewhere around Győr, Kecskemét and Gödöllő, charging each car with additional 8€ per passing, don't you think so?
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Old December 21st, 2015, 08:15 PM   #7135
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Let's not forget that in Austria almost all the transalpine tunnels and some entire motorways are tolled in addition to the compulsory vignette to use the rest of the portions.

Comparatively, Switzerland has the cheapest vignette in whole Europe for the quality and value of its over 1'800 km motorway network - only 40 CHF/36 EUR for 14 months. In fact, unlike Austria you do not need to pay for long alpine transit tunnels or any extra on motorways/expressways !
In this sense, all European tourists receive a gift from the Swiss .
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Old December 22nd, 2015, 01:35 AM   #7136
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it would be similar if Hungary would place toll plaza at Köröshegy viaduct, somewhere around Győr, Kecskemét and Gödöllő, charging each car with additional 8€ per passing, don't you think so?
No problem as I don't use this motorway... In fact, yes that would be better to know what you are really paying for...
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Old December 22nd, 2015, 01:40 AM   #7137
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Originally Posted by John Maynard View Post
Let's not forget that in Austria almost all the transalpine tunnels and some entire motorways are tolled in addition to the compulsory vignette to use the rest of the portions.

Comparatively, Switzerland has the cheapest vignette in whole Europe for the quality and value of its over 1'800 km motorway network - only 40 CHF/36 EUR for 14 months. In fact, unlike Austria you do not need to pay for long alpine transit tunnels or any extra on motorways/expressways !
In this sense, all European tourists receive a gift from the Swiss .
It's true! But I find it great to separate like this, for example, me, I don't follow any Austrian tunnels as I'm traveling from Salzburg to Wien...

Yes, but everything else is so expensive in Switzerland... They are compensating the loss by this way I guess... (But I already planned to go through Switzerland when I will do the road back from France to Romania in 2 weeks )

Anyway, let's stop this off-topic here...
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Old December 22nd, 2015, 06:57 PM   #7138
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Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
M30: Tornyosnemeti – Miskolc-East ~60km (2016/17 ? to ?) – ? – map
I guess there is no permission to build and they will only prepare it in 2016/2017. Then it is time to find money to build it
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Old December 24th, 2015, 12:45 PM   #7139
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In my opinion - 2023 opening date. M4 to Croatia will be opened sooner
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Old December 24th, 2015, 12:51 PM   #7140
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M4 routes from Budapest to Romania.
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Which new motorways are currently under construction?
Which new motorways will be opened next?

See 'New motorway projects' thread

** Please help completing and updating of the list **

Been/driven: A, AND, B, CDN, CH, CZ, D, DK, E, EST, F, FIN, FL, GB, H, I, L, LV, LT, N, NL, P, PL, RO, S, SLO, USA (My cumulative travel mapping)

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