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Old January 6th, 2009, 01:09 PM   #1701
Majestic
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I don't preoccupy myself with some biased opinions in the article. I just care whether the given data is correct.
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Old January 6th, 2009, 01:19 PM   #1702
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The question is whether those shopping centers wouldn't have been build if the M0 wasn't constructed. I highly doubt that.

Same factor for population growth and suburbs. People blame freeways for it, but other examples show those developments take place anyway. If we take a look at Los Angeles, we see the freeway system expansion stopped mostly after the 1980's, but the huge increase in population and development didn't stop.

Last edited by ChrisZwolle; January 6th, 2009 at 01:25 PM.
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Old January 6th, 2009, 02:21 PM   #1703
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Majestic View Post
I don't preoccupy myself with some biased opinions in the article. I just care whether the given data is correct.
there are some wrong data:

Start year: 1998 / M0 south: 1986, M0east: 2004/2006

M0 eastern section HUF43bn ($205m) / between M4-M3: HUF 54bn, full eastern sector (M5-M3) + M31 : HUF 110bn


The 150km M0 motorway is a ringroad around the country's capital Budapest. / 108km
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Old January 6th, 2009, 04:24 PM   #1704
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H123Laci View Post
The 150km M0 motorway is a ringroad around the country's capital Budapest. / 108km
Yup, 150 km seemed way too long for me (almost the length of Berliner Ring, WTF) but I never bothered to measure it myself

Anyway, thanks for the info.
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Old January 7th, 2009, 06:44 PM   #1705
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M0 north(main road 10 and 11) got the environmental approval for the "A1" variant!!!

http://www.nif.hu/hirek/170

A mai napon az Országos Környezetvédelmi, Természetvédelmi és Vízügyi Főfelügyelőség kiadta a környezetvédelmi engedélyt a Nemzeti Infrastruktúra Fejlesztő Zrt. részére az M0 útgyűrű 11. sz. főút-10. sz. főút közötti szakasz ún. ’A1’ nyomvonal változatának létesítésére.


(from roads.extra.hu)
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Old January 7th, 2009, 06:58 PM   #1706
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Old January 7th, 2009, 07:48 PM   #1707
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Not a big difference between these two variants.
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Old January 9th, 2009, 11:32 AM   #1708
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both variants are waste of money...

this section would be built with much less tunnel...
(say 1-1,5km instead of 5km)
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Old January 9th, 2009, 11:58 AM   #1709
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yeah, but Óbuda, Budakalász and Üröm wouldn't have agreed then... Kőröshegy-effect
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Old January 9th, 2009, 12:05 PM   #1710
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Well, better an expensive much-needed road than no road at all, I say.

I do agree though that the influence of green parties and NIMBY's is too big often. Delays and increasing costs are also not in the interest of an economy.

A problem one observes often is that in the vicinity of natural parks (wannabies), the whole area gets build with houses and nobody complains about that, but when there's no space left for appropriate infrastructure, it's a problem all the sudden.
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Old January 9th, 2009, 12:29 PM   #1711
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In this case,settlements are close to the planned route,some places even as close as 200m(between Pilisborosjenő and Üröm) or 150m at Budakalász.

Besides,the area is hilly too,and again,though I know its not a reason for some people,cuts would have bad effect on the view,environment(as built-up) and nature.


(pic of Qtya)

If the real point is to get the vehicles through at all cost,then why not transform a few roads in the city into a motorway,it would be much cheaper...the real goal is to get the vehicles out of the settlements(lower pollution),and in the process,we shoudlnt bring our problem to an other neighbourhood(ventilation of tunnels make the area-pollution of vehicles into a point-pollution at exhaust/exit points).
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Old January 9th, 2009, 12:53 PM   #1712
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RawLee View Post
In this case,settlements are close to the planned route,some places even as close as 200m(between Pilisborosjenő and Üröm) or 150m at Budakalász.
as between ecser and maglód, or pécel and rákoscsaba, or csömör and árpádföld along the M0 east...

the solution: noise barriers...

Quote:
Besides,the area is hilly too,and again,though I know its not a reason for some people,cuts would have bad effect on the view,environment(as built-up) and nature.
nope.
I dont talk cuts instead of tunnels but an alternate route wheres no need for long tunnels nor cuts...

Quote:
If the real point is to get the vehicles through at all cost,then why not transform a few roads in the city into a motorway,it would be much cheaper...
... or much more expensive...
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Old January 9th, 2009, 01:22 PM   #1713
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Quote:
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nope.
I dont talk cuts instead of tunnels but an alternate route wheres no need for long tunnels nor cuts...
This is the least hilly part of the mountain



And making it into a rollercoaster instead of a horizontal road will only result in higher fuel usage of vehicles,especially trucks.
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Old January 9th, 2009, 09:18 PM   #1714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RawLee View Post
This is the least hilly part of the mountain...
thanx, I know the terrain...


Quote:
And making it into a rollercoaster instead of a horizontal road will only result in higher fuel usage of vehicles,especially trucks.
and how much is the increase? (on a few km section) 1%?
(we are talking about 4% slopes not high alpine serpentines )


but in this case theres no "rollercoaster" only a small change in the alignment:

check the red route: there are much shorter tunnels...

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Old January 9th, 2009, 09:58 PM   #1715
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And the red route obviously need the demolition of many houses...would you sacrifice your own house for the cause,or you're only doing it so easily with other's?
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Old January 9th, 2009, 10:12 PM   #1716
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From MR11 to Üröm/Budakalász I think the orange tunnel isn't a bad choice. The second tunnel could be the shortest.

That combination could save about 1000 m of tunnel.
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Old January 9th, 2009, 11:42 PM   #1717
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (HUN)RoGeR View Post
From MR11 to Üröm/Budakalász I think the orange tunnel isn't a bad choice. The second tunnel could be the shortest.

That combination could save about 1000 m of tunnel.
The orange version is A1...A1 is the orange in the beginning,and then the green.



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Old January 9th, 2009, 11:55 PM   #1718
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I mean the orange(A1 or 3.1 - depends on map) - red (1) would be the best combination.
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Old January 10th, 2009, 09:18 PM   #1719
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Ok, I passed through Hungary on my trip from Bulgaria back to Germany and I must say that Hungary has the best motorways of all these countries by far. They are very smooth, very soft and very even! Hungary really deserves the title motorway for their motorways because they are really very impressive. Especially the new M5 from Serbian border, it´s very even and you forget you drive, you only hear the engine of the car and that´s it. The only motorway I know that is as good is the Struma motorway in Bulgaria, that´s the way to go.

Not to forget that when you drive in Hungary at night you can always tune in a technochannel and it stays for the whole country, omg, in Germany and in Austria you have only shit channels with lots of German Nena shit that stay for long, in Hungary you have Juventus and various channels that play Technosets, even in Serbia there are Technochannels with great music.
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Old January 11th, 2009, 12:56 AM   #1720
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Thanks Radi, glad you enjoyed driving on Hungarian motorways!
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