daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old January 14th, 2009, 02:26 PM   #1761
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,594
Likes (Received): 19383

40% is NOT oversized, although it may sound that way. Imagine it being a two lane road only. It would be congested. The issue is a two lane highway has a capacity of say max. 20.000, while a 2x2 motorway with 50% more lanes has a capacity of about 85,000 which is 425% more.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old January 14th, 2009, 02:33 PM   #1762
Qwert
Moderator
 
Qwert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,410
Likes (Received): 2534

Quote:
Originally Posted by RawLee View Post
M15 is running on 65% capacity,while M2 on 60-116%. About 40% seems to be the national average of usage. So most of our network is oversized(or was in 2007). But we dont build motorways for the people primarily,but for the economy.
Interesting, can I see some map or something what shows capacity and usage of roads in Hungary?
Qwert no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 14th, 2009, 02:34 PM   #1763
RawLee
Registered User
 
RawLee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Budapest
Posts: 9,447
Likes (Received): 1083

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
40% is NOT oversized, although it may sound that way. Imagine it being a two lane road only. It would be congested. The issue is a two lane highway has a capacity of say max. 20.000, while a 2x2 motorway with 50% more lanes has a capacity of about 85,000 which is 425% more.
I just quoted the official stance of the road "statistics" agency.
M15 has 1700/hour,M1,for example,has 6500/hour capacity.

That is 20800 vs 156000 daily

The percentages refer to "vehicle units",not actual number of vehicles,so does these numbers. So the 65% on the 2x1 would be 7% on the 2x2...
RawLee no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 14th, 2009, 02:43 PM   #1764
RawLee
Registered User
 
RawLee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Budapest
Posts: 9,447
Likes (Received): 1083

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwert View Post
Interesting, can I see some map or something what shows capacity and usage of roads in Hungary?
It is suposed to be here:
http://web.kozut.hu/index.php?id=8834

Name is BOVITETT_MEROHELY_KIADVANY_1_2007
-or-
http://web.kozut.hu/uploads/media/BO..._1_2007_01.pdf
RawLee no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 14th, 2009, 02:59 PM   #1765
Robosteve
Registered User
 
Robosteve's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Sydney
Posts: 376
Likes (Received): 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Natomasken View Post
What motorway is being planned? Is it in Sydney? I thought the only addition being planned was to extend the Newcastle Freeway to the M2, which I thought is going to be a tunnel.
I was referring to the F3 to Branxton link, which will bypass the existing New England Highway through the Maitland area and meet the F3 (Sydney - Newcastle Freeway) at Newcastle Link Road.

More info: http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/constructi...r/f3_branxton/
Robosteve no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 14th, 2009, 03:42 PM   #1766
Verso
Islander
 
Verso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ljubljana
Posts: 22,087
Likes (Received): 4749

Quote:
Originally Posted by H123Laci View Post
the M70 is not narrow, but half profile...
I meant the whole road's width. But I doubt M75 will be better than M70, it wouldn't make sense...

Quote:
Originally Posted by H123Laci View Post
if I want to say an example for narrow, I'd say the A5 on the other side of the border...
What's the width of a driving lane on M70, if you know? (it's 3.5 m on A5)
Verso no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 14th, 2009, 04:07 PM   #1767
H123Laci
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Budapest, HUN
Posts: 1,647
Likes (Received): 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
What's the width of a driving lane on M70, if you know? (it's 3.5 m on A5)
Idunno, but thats not important... (3.75 or 3.5)

I think it is better to build half profile when the traffic is low, and widen it by building the 2nd half later...

you have built 2x2 w/o emergency lane... (if I remember correctly theres even no soft shoulder)

what will you do when the traffic increases?
the absence of emergency lanes will be dangerous...
H123Laci no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 14th, 2009, 04:44 PM   #1768
Verso
Islander
 
Verso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ljubljana
Posts: 22,087
Likes (Received): 4749

Quote:
Originally Posted by H123Laci View Post
you have built 2x2 w/o emergency lane... (if I remember correctly theres even no soft shoulder)
There's just 0.5 m of "hard shoulder" and 1.5 m of soft shoulder, which you can't use sometimes due to crash barriers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by H123Laci View Post
what will you do when the traffic increases?
Add them. But there are hard shoulders on two busiest sections - Lend(a)va bypass and first 5 km from Maribor (though it should definitely be 5 km more).
Verso no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 14th, 2009, 04:51 PM   #1769
gramercy
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,823
Likes (Received): 799

Quote:
Originally Posted by H123Laci View Post
you have built 2x2 w/o emergency lane...
and now _our_ government has decided to do the same thing on hundreds of kilometres: M4, M85, M86, road 21....to name a "few"

but we do have money to build a highway from nowhere to nowhere in the middle of the famous _puszta_ (M44)

how crazy is that?
gramercy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 14th, 2009, 05:39 PM   #1770
(HUN)RoGeR
MSc of Chem Engineering
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Budapest
Posts: 1,573
Likes (Received): 356

Quote:
Originally Posted by gramercy View Post
and now _our_ government has decided to do the same thing on hundreds of kilometres: M4, M85, M86, road 21....to name a "few"
I don't know MR21, but the M85 will built as 2*2 lane expressway like this:

It has at least 2,75 m of "soft shoulder" as an emergency line.
From TED (in Hungarian):
"A 85. sz. főút Enese települést elkerülő 7 km-es szakaszának (távlati M85) 2*2 sávos autóúti kiépítése"

I think M4 and M86 will be the same.
(HUN)RoGeR no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 14th, 2009, 05:59 PM   #1771
gramercy
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,823
Likes (Received): 799

i dont know, theres so much conflicting information

up until a couple of days ago M0 WEST was marked as a 2x2 main road yet now they call for a design with 2x(2+1) AND they call it an expressway instead of a highway

i really hope its just semantics!
gramercy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 14th, 2009, 06:11 PM   #1772
H123Laci
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Budapest, HUN
Posts: 1,647
Likes (Received): 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
There's just 0.5 m of "hard shoulder" and 1.5 m of soft shoulder, which you can't use sometimes due to crash barriers.
in this case thats ok.
(It seemed to me on the photos that there is no soft shoulder at all, and building it recquires the widening of the embankment...)

but whats the advantage of this solution?

compared to the price of the entire project that 2x1,5m thin asphalt stripe is marginal...
but building it later under heavy traffic means much more cost and traffic disturbation...
H123Laci no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 14th, 2009, 06:22 PM   #1773
(HUN)RoGeR
MSc of Chem Engineering
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Budapest
Posts: 1,573
Likes (Received): 356

Quote:
Originally Posted by gramercy View Post
i dont know, theres so much conflicting information
Yepp. We have to wait and see.
As far as I know the contrusction of Vát bypass is delayed (opens this year), because the goverment modified the plans and builds as expressway intead of MR.
http://www.nyugat.hu/tartalom/cikk/n...reszletes_terv
http://www.nif.hu/hirek/157 (sorry for the Hungarian links)

Quote:
up until a couple of days ago M0 WEST was marked as a 2x2 main road yet now they call for a design with 2x(2+1) AND they call it an expressway instead of a highway
Yepp, you can check it on TED.
"Mérnöki tervezési szolgáltatások" is the key expression (publication date: 2009-01-07).

Edit: Anyone has pics from Main Road 21?

Last edited by (HUN)RoGeR; January 14th, 2009 at 06:29 PM.
(HUN)RoGeR no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 14th, 2009, 10:23 PM   #1774
Mateusz
Registered User
 
Mateusz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 6,536
Likes (Received): 235

Are there any pics of M1/M7 and old section of M0 ?
Mateusz no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 14th, 2009, 10:29 PM   #1775
Verso
Islander
 
Verso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ljubljana
Posts: 22,087
Likes (Received): 4749

Look in the first post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by H123Laci View Post
in this case thats ok.
(It seemed to me on the photos that there is no soft shoulder at all, and building it recquires the widening of the embankment...)
Sorry, actually I meant embankment. But what's in this case the big difference between them anyway? You can put your car on both of them. Of course parking your truck on 2 meters is a bit harder, but better to be on the driving lane partly than alltogether. Look at pics of A5 again and say what you think.
Verso no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 20th, 2009, 07:13 PM   #1776
gramercy
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,823
Likes (Received): 799

some sub-contractors of the Megyeri bridge are now saying they still didnt receive their payment

behold the strict payment everyone (especially the _state_) is used to in hungária...

Last edited by gramercy; January 20th, 2009 at 07:58 PM.
gramercy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 20th, 2009, 07:33 PM   #1777
RawLee
Registered User
 
RawLee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Budapest
Posts: 9,447
Likes (Received): 1083

I have to disagree. For the sub-contractors,the contractor is responsible. Hence,its not the state,but Hídépítő that didnt pay them yet(because Hídépítő didnt complain about lack of payment).
RawLee no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 20th, 2009, 07:57 PM   #1778
gramercy
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,823
Likes (Received): 799

Quote:
Originally Posted by RawLee View Post
I have to disagree. For the sub-contractors,the contractor is responsible. Hence,its not the state,but Hídépítő that didnt pay them yet(because Hídépítő didnt complain about lack of payment).
perhaps, but i disagree with the whole sub-cantracting practise in general
gramercy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 20th, 2009, 08:40 PM   #1779
RawLee
Registered User
 
RawLee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Budapest
Posts: 9,447
Likes (Received): 1083

Quote:
Originally Posted by gramercy View Post
perhaps, but i disagree with the whole sub-cantracting practise in general
Well,you cant expect companies to have equipment for everything. Or the men-power. BTW,subcontracting not necessarily means that you give all the jobs to others,in most cases(if its not about milking the state) it is about giving those jobs that you dont have expertise in to those who have. Like when you build your house(assuming you know masonry),but let an expert do the electrical jobs...
RawLee no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 21st, 2009, 01:31 PM   #1780
(HUN)RoGeR
MSc of Chem Engineering
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Budapest
Posts: 1,573
Likes (Received): 356

Quote:
Originally Posted by gramercy View Post
perhaps, but i disagree with the whole sub-cantracting practise in general
Using one level of subcontractor is OK. You don't have enough gear, man or experience, but you can coordinate.
But give the whole work to a subcontractor who gives the whole work to...
(HUN)RoGeR no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
budapest, highways, hungary, motorways

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium