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Old May 15th, 2013, 12:31 AM   #201
Restless
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonii View Post
It never get into the action on region level. All the HSR project that is happening now (Laos, Thailand, Malaysia-Singapore) is per each country own interest. China has so many plans to connect with ASEAN but I doubt the conflict with several countries in the region now will help much.
Well, the China-Laos section is already under construction by Chinese contractors to their standards, and Thailand expect their new lines to connect up with Laos.

That just leaves Malaysia and Singapore, who don't actually have an active dispute over any territory.
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Old May 15th, 2013, 12:51 AM   #202
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Well, the China-Laos section is already under construction by Chinese contractors to their standards, and Thailand expect their new lines to connect up with Laos.

That just leaves Malaysia and Singapore, who don't actually have an active dispute over any territory.
Well yes, actually the connection was planned by Thai government to build the HSR to reach Nong Khai which is the North Eastern border to Laos and Padang Besar which is Southern border to Malaysia. But both party (each direction) never have bilateral agreement. I only heard the news from Thai side where it mention that they plan for the link to the neighbor, but not from Laos or Malaysia. Especially Malaysia case, I never heard about the plan for connecting up north to Padang Besar. Their current and only plan is to connect from KL to Singapore. I doubt they have any interest to add the link to connect to Thailand at all. Especially when the old 1 meter guage will already connect both country.

BTW, I'm sure it will happen some day (if Malaysia doesn't do something funny like using Maglev for their HSR link like they claim in the news). As the plan not only link from China down to Singapore. But it will also link across from Burma > Thailand > Cambodia > Vietnam as well. Very very ambitious goal (as far as the economy viability of all country for the project like this).
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Old May 15th, 2013, 04:05 PM   #203
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Quote:
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Well yes, actually the connection was planned by Thai government to build the HSR to reach Nong Khai which is the North Eastern border to Laos and Padang Besar which is Southern border to Malaysia. But both party (each direction) never have bilateral agreement. I only heard the news from Thai side where it mention that they plan for the link to the neighbor, but not from Laos or Malaysia. Especially Malaysia case, I never heard about the plan for connecting up north to Padang Besar. Their current and only plan is to connect from KL to Singapore. I doubt they have any interest to add the link to connect to Thailand at all. Especially when the old 1 meter guage will already connect both country.

BTW, I'm sure it will happen some day (if Malaysia doesn't do something funny like using Maglev for their HSR link like they claim in the news). As the plan not only link from China down to Singapore. But it will also link across from Burma > Thailand > Cambodia > Vietnam as well. Very very ambitious goal (as far as the economy viability of all country for the project like this).
Laos takes it as a given that their railway will eventually connect up with Thailand, who are their largest trading partner.
The only significant city in Laos is the capital Vientiane which sits on the border with NongKai - the terminus for the Thai railway.

I see the Thailand-Malaysia link being the last to be built, as it is the most marginal section of the route.
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Old May 15th, 2013, 08:53 PM   #204
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Laos is significantly poorer than all the other countries mentioned. For a serious railway to go through there someone else will have to sponsor it.
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Old May 15th, 2013, 10:08 PM   #205
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Laos is significantly poorer than all the other countries mentioned. For a serious railway to go through there someone else will have to sponsor it.
Well, apparently all the costs are to be covered by a loan from EXIM bank in China. And from a purely economic point of view, it doesn't make sense.
But the line should serve as a demonstration project for export proposals and increases the likelihood of future orders, particularly for the Bangkok-Laos line.
Plus it is geopolitical move as it economically binds another veto-wielding member of ASEAN to China. And remember that ASEAN comprises 10 countries with a total population of 600million people.

Anyway, I imagine that EXIM will have to write off a lot of the loan in the future, but in the meantime it should spur a lot of economic growth and prosperity in Laos.
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Old May 15th, 2013, 10:15 PM   #206
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Depends on how they price it.

Income per capita in Laos is still very low, not many would be able to afford it. To be honest, at this point in time it'd be a white elephant, perhaps in a decade or more, it'd be more practical. Especially when finances are being reigned in in China, it's quite unlikely that funding for this project would be approved outside of it being recognised as a geopolitical move of great importance.
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Old May 15th, 2013, 10:29 PM   #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Restless View Post
Well, apparently all the costs are to be covered by a loan from EXIM bank in China. And from a purely economic point of view, it doesn't make sense.
But the line should serve as a demonstration project for export proposals and increases the likelihood of future orders, particularly for the Bangkok-Laos line.
Plus it is geopolitical move as it economically binds another veto-wielding member of ASEAN to China. And remember that ASEAN comprises 10 countries with a total population of 600million people.

Anyway, I imagine that EXIM will have to write off a lot of the loan in the future, but in the meantime it should spur a lot of economic growth and prosperity in Laos.
I heard from the news that they change their mind and no longer ask China for sponsoring the project (due to China request for the land across the rail link). And they seems to get funding from Malaysia company instead (which will get the loan from foreign bank somewhere). Not sure if this is still true or not.

Regarding to the economy size. The funding for the whole HSR project in Laos is 140% of their GDP. Compare to Thailand where it is just 7% is totally mind blowing. I respect their gut to green light this project. Compare to Vietname where the carbinet ask to re-study the project feasibility due to high cost. Even though Vietnam is already bigger than Laos. I guess they can't really deny this or otherwise they will have to allow China and Thailand to pass through their country without them getting any benefit. Maybe this is one of the reason why Laos do not allow Thai HSR Northern line to pass through some part of the country (from Chiangmai to Southern China) as it will totally by pass Vientien.
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Old May 15th, 2013, 11:12 PM   #208
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I don't think the Laotian section will be a problem, labor and land cost over there is low enough and the geopolitical importance significant enough that China should be willing to build it for free. A modern rail connection to Thailand will be extremely valuable, pissing off Vietnam will be a bonus. There are freight traffic potential too, as some cargo can be offloaded at Thailand's west coast and ship to China via rail, instead of going through the Strait of Malacca which China considers a choking point.
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Old May 17th, 2013, 11:23 AM   #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
I don't think the Laotian section will be a problem, labor and land cost over there is low enough and the geopolitical importance significant enough that China should be willing to build it for free. A modern rail connection to Thailand will be extremely valuable, pissing off Vietnam will be a bonus. There are freight traffic potential too, as some cargo can be offloaded at Thailand's west coast and ship to China via rail, instead of going through the Strait of Malacca which China considers a choking point.
Yeah that's true. Actually China has 2 plans to open the new route for their freight transport. One via Burma from their new south western port, and another one via Thailand from our eastern seaboard port. They originally propose the thai route with 1.4 new metre guage, single rail, potential speed at 120 km/h for freight transport only. But Thai reject it as it doesn't do anything to the local economy (not to mention that speed is not anywhere near HSR). So we come up with our own plan for building the HSR. But still open for China to use the link down to our port in the future. As there will be dedicate route that connect Ban Pachi and Eastern link without needing to go through Bangkok.
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Old May 19th, 2013, 07:33 AM   #210
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This is going to be an interesting project linking Singapore and Kuala Lumpur (with I think a future extension to the Penang area). I'm surprised that the Japanese rail companies have not bid on this contract, since the a modified 700 Series Shinkansen trainset running at 275 to 300 km/h between these two cities would be perfect for this project.
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Old May 19th, 2013, 11:56 AM   #211
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This is going to be an interesting project linking Singapore and Kuala Lumpur (with I think a future extension to the Penang area). I'm surprised that the Japanese rail companies have not bid on this contract, since the a modified 700 Series Shinkansen trainset running at 275 to 300 km/h between these two cities would be perfect for this project.
They haven't bid on this contract because the tender isn't out yet. There are still many discussions, investigation and issues that have to be dealt with before even thinking about laying the first track. For one, route alignment, not just the Singapore section, but the entirety of it all, hasn't been finalized.
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Old July 9th, 2013, 04:58 PM   #212
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Published: 2013/07/09
http://www.btimes.com.my/Current_New...#ixzz2YX9RYr4T

....

Meanwhile, the Land Public Transport Commission (SPAD) said it has completed the feasibility study on the proposed high-speed rail service linking Kuala Lumpur and Singapore.

"A ministerial committee has been formed, divided into technical and policy. We will discuss with Singapore this month and look into the details," said SPAD chairman Tan Sri Syed Hamid Albar.
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Old July 9th, 2013, 08:37 PM   #213
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Good news

Proposed KL-S'pore high-speed rail final report expected by end-July

MALAYSIA: Malaysia is finalising details of the technical engineering and feasibility studies of the proposed high-speed rail link between Kuala Lumpur and Singapore.

Minister in the Prime Minister's Department Nancy Shukri revealed in parliament that a full report is expected to be ready by the end of July.

The government is expected to put it up for tender by the end of the year.

The project, which was agreed in principle between Malaysia and Singapore in February, is targeted for completion by 2020.

At least three bidders have shown interest in the project, which is estimated to cost some US$12 billion.

They are UEM, which is controlled by government investment arm Khazanah Nasional, MMC Gamuda, which is led by Malaysian tycoon Syed Moktar Al-Bukhary, and YTL Corp, which built and operates the express rail link to the KL International Airport.
source: http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/...gh/739058.html


Last edited by World 2 World; July 9th, 2013 at 08:44 PM.
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Old July 10th, 2013, 04:43 PM   #214
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Will the route run into the heart of singapore using the old rail corridor that was recently closed or has this all been developed now?
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Old July 11th, 2013, 03:15 AM   #215
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Most likely Singapore will demand a route in tunnel - just like in Hong Kong. I very much doubt they would use the old rail corridor that was removed for the specific purpose of gaining more land for development
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Old July 11th, 2013, 06:53 AM   #216
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Is it possible to integrate the route into the existing MRT route?

Considering that some high speed trains in the world could draw power from third rail, such as Eurostar.

image hosted on flickr


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I was thinking to integrate them into the North-South MRT line, where the train could terminate at City Hall or Raffles Place, right into the downtown of Singapore.
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Old July 11th, 2013, 08:16 AM   #217
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Haha don't count on that one bit. They would most likely built a totally new tunnel all the way to the CBD though.
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Old July 11th, 2013, 09:18 AM   #218
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High-speed rail tender may start year-end
SHAREN KAUR Published: 2013/07/11
http://www.btimes.com.my/Current_New...#ixzz2YiOY6uIR



KL-SINGAPORE LINK: Proof that the 400km rail project is viable, say sources

THE government may call for an international open tender for the high-speed rail (HSR) link between Kuala Lumpur and Singapore by the end of this year.

This indicates that the 400km project is viable, said people with first-hand knowledge of the matter.

The Land Public Transport Commission (SPAD) has been carrying out a feasibility study on the HSR project since early last year.

The study includes a detailed assessment on the technical and engineering aspects, cost, financial and operations, and economic benefit of the project.

Minister in the Prime Minister's Department Nancy Shukri said on Tuesday the government is finalising details of the technical engineering and feasibility study, adding that a full report is expected by the end of this month.

The project, which was agreed in principle between Malaysia and Singapore in February this year, is targeted for completion by 2020.

The rail link is expected to cost around RM40 billion. This includes RM10 billion to buy high-speed bullet trains.

According to sources, there will be mandatory requirements in the tender procurement that companies must meet before they can make a bid.

These include having a few years of expertise in running high-speed trains and operating railway lines, a source said.

"The other considerations would include transfer of technology, the type of systems used and costs. The government expects train manufacturers from Europe or China to be among the key players," the source said.

Business Times reported recently that several local and foreign firms are in talks to form consortiums.

MMC Corp Bhd may team up with Gamuda Bhd and Chinese and European system integrators.

YTL Corp Bhd, controlled by Tan Sri Francis Yeoh, may bid for the HSR project with Spanish bullet train maker Talgo or CAF.

UEM Group Bhd, meanwhile, is working with Ara Group, founded by Tan Sri Ravindran Menon, to form a consortium with European companies that may also include Talgo.

Global Rail, a railway engineering firm owned by Fan Boon Heng, is talking to Canada's Bombardier Inc and Chinese firm China Railway Group.
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Old July 11th, 2013, 02:49 PM   #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stingstingsting View Post


Haha don't count on that one bit. They would most likely built a totally new tunnel all the way to the CBD though.
Well, there were tracks all the way to the CBD until two years ago when they closed down the old railway station. Now they suddenly realised they might to a big dig and build a new central station.

The old station: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanjong...ailway_station
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Old July 11th, 2013, 04:06 PM   #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bagus70 View Post
Is it possible to integrate the route into the existing MRT route?

Considering that some high speed trains in the world could draw power from third rail, such as Eurostar.

image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


I was thinking to integrate them into the North-South MRT line, where the train could terminate at City Hall or Raffles Place, right into the downtown of Singapore.
Completely unfeasible. The headway is already packed beyond capacity (trains actually queue for stations on NSL in peak hours) and there are no provision for bypass tracks. The ride to/from Woodlands would probably take just a bit shorter than the remainder of the line to KL.

Beside, there are no facilities to operate actual heavy rail service in any single station in Singapore. By that I mean sufficiently large concourse and a fair number of platforms, especially necessary on a terminus which Singapore is going to host. Let alone immigration facilities, should they be all dumped into the station premises.
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