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Old January 25th, 2011, 03:59 PM   #101
mindmaker87
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so what are the plans???? are they going to re gauge the track???
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Old January 25th, 2011, 11:12 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by mindmaker87 View Post
so what are the plans???? are they going to re gauge the track???
Is there already a high speed line to be re-gauged?

Won't they just make a new line, according to HSR specs, and make it standard gauge?
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Old January 26th, 2011, 01:18 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post
Is there already a high speed line to be re-gauged?

Won't they just make a new line, according to HSR specs, and make it standard gauge?
Actually...

The existing metre gauge line is being double tracked and electrified, but still retains its 1000 mm gauge. Such line is designed for 160 km/h operation.

KL-Singapore high speed rail line was actually proposed back in 1990's, but only came to government's consideration (as in holding feasibility study) in 2010, as part of increasing economic growth of the country.

If anything, the planned HSR infrastructure will be entirely separate from existing metre gauge, this is confirmed and also, logical way to build HSR.

If the HSR passes the feasibility study and gets built, what you can see in future is that Malaysia will get:

- Improved metre gauge line for 160 km/h operation after double tracking and electrification

as well as:

- Brand new, separate HSR infrastructure with standard gauge.
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Old January 26th, 2011, 06:25 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by TWK90 View Post
Actually...

The existing metre gauge line is being double tracked and electrified, but still retains its 1000 mm gauge. Such line is designed for 160 km/h operation.

KL-Singapore high speed rail line was actually proposed back in 1990's, but only came to government's consideration (as in holding feasibility study) in 2010, as part of increasing economic growth of the country.

If anything, the planned HSR infrastructure will be entirely separate from existing metre gauge, this is confirmed and also, logical way to build HSR.

If the HSR passes the feasibility study and gets built, what you can see in future is that Malaysia will get:

- Improved metre gauge line for 160 km/h operation after double tracking and electrification

as well as:

- Brand new, separate HSR infrastructure with standard gauge.
That sounds like a good combo.

1 for long distance, one for more intermediate stops.
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Old January 28th, 2011, 06:33 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TWK90 View Post
Actually...

The existing metre gauge line is being double tracked and electrified, but still retains its 1000 mm gauge. Such line is designed for 160 km/h operation.

KL-Singapore high speed rail line was actually proposed back in 1990's, but only came to government's consideration (as in holding feasibility study) in 2010, as part of increasing economic growth of the country.

If anything, the planned HSR infrastructure will be entirely separate from existing metre gauge, this is confirmed and also, logical way to build HSR.

If the HSR passes the feasibility study and gets built, what you can see in future is that Malaysia will get:

- Improved metre gauge line for 160 km/h operation after double tracking and electrification

as well as:

- Brand new, separate HSR infrastructure with standard gauge.
Wouldn't it be a waste of money to have both? They are going to have the KTM train extended line to 20+ station within Iskandar Malaysia. So if HSR is to be built, it means the current track from KL to Singapore, which is in the process of being converted to double track electrified , will it have to be scrapped again totally inordered to have the HSR?
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Old January 28th, 2011, 08:56 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by cathylmg View Post
Wouldn't it be a waste of money to have both?
No. It wouldn´t. Japan has both 1067 mm double tracked railways and Shinkansen lines, they do not find it a waste to have both.
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Old February 18th, 2011, 11:25 AM   #107
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KL-S'pore rail link only at pre-feasibility study
Published: 2011/02/18
http://www.btimes.com.my/Current_New...cle/index_html

The Government will only be embarking on a pre-feasibility study on the Kuala Lumpur-Singapore High Speed Rail Link soon, the Land Public Transport Commission (SPAD) clarified today.

It said an article published by Nanyang Siang Pau on Wednesday on the proposed project was absolutely incorrect, it said in a statement.

The study, to be jointly conducted by SPAD in collaboration with the Transport Ministry and the Performance Management and Delivery Unit (PEMANDU), would determine the viability of such a rail link, SPAD said.

It said the study would be completed in June. "As such, it is not conceivable for any contract signing to implement the
project to take place in the near future," it said.

The rail link, proposed under the Economic Transformation Programme's Greater Kuala Lumpur/Klang Valley National Key Economic Area, has been identified as a potential catalyst to enhance travel between two of South East Asia's largest cities. -- Bernama
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Old February 18th, 2011, 07:55 PM   #108
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This dream is being discuss for so long, when it will they move a stone? See Thailand has started to negotiate with China to build High Speed Train from China technology and loan to connect Bangkok to Kunming.

We can ignore the one going to kick off in Laos, because all the while Malaysia (KL), Thailand (Bkk) and Singapore are the competitor for SEA logistic, transportation and manufacturing center.

Thailand even wanted to connect Bangkok to Padang Besar Thailand (not Padang Besar Malaysia) such an ambitious plan really build, Malaysia will be left behide Thailand.

Whats the problem here, what our government is worry, its been so long.
population not enough? not enough user? not enough money? or we have already connect double track railways to Padang Besar from KL and to Johor Bahru?

I believe Malaysia from Malaysia boleh till become Malaysia bolehkah? and now Malaysia memang bolehkah!?
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Old February 21st, 2011, 05:18 PM   #109
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I wonder: with the impending closure of Tanjong Pagar station, where will HSR trains stop in Singapore should the proposed line be built? It doesn't seem to make much sense for trains to just stop in Woodlands and then connect by bus or MRT.
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Old March 8th, 2011, 06:13 AM   #110
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Quote:
Feasibility studies on high-speed KL-Singapore rail
By SHARIDAN M. ALI Tuesday March 8, 2011
http://biz.thestar.com.my/news/story...&if_height=642

KUALA LUMPUR: The Government is currently undertaking feasibility studies on a high-speed rail connecting Kuala Lumpur and Singapore.

Public Land Transport Commission (SPAD) chief development officer Azmi Abdul Aziz said that the feasibility studies would take about eight weeks to complete.

“We have done some comparisons with other similar high-speed rail links around the world such as the Paris-Brussels link and it is feasible to connect Kuala Lumpur and Singapore, spanning around 400km,” he said.

“The high-speed rail is expected to have a positive impact on the country's tourism industry, have a time-saving factor and further unlock the property values in Kuala Lumpur.

“But, although it is feasible, we still have a lot of further considerations to look at such as the impact on other parallel transportation as well as the demand and supply.

“Besides the Kuala Lumpur-Singapore link, SPAD is also looking at other high-speed rail proposals involving Kuala Lumpur-Penang-Bangkok,” Azmi said in his presentation at the Greater KL: smart city of the future conference yesterday. The conference was organised by Asian Strategy and Leadership Institute and IBM.

Federal Territories and Urban Well Being Minister Senator Datuk Raja Nong Chik Raja Zainal Abidin said the second of four dimensions that governed Greater KL or the Klang Valley aspirations was to improve intra and inter-city links.

“Regional connectivity will be accelerated by deploying a high-speed train system to connect Greater KL and Singapore.

“At the same time, intra-city connectivity will be improved by the mass rapid transit (MRT) system,” he said in his closing keynote address at the conference.

SPAD is currently busy as the supervising agency for the roll out of the country's first MRT system, the construction of which is expected to start in July.

The MRT was a subject of debate at the conference, touching on issues pertaining to station location as well as its integration with other modes of transport.

Mag Technical and Development Consultants Sdn Bhd director Goh Bok Yen, in commenting on the announcement of the first MRT line, said the public must be given the overall picture of the MRT (which is proposed to have three lines) to receive valuable feedback.

“The public needs to know the overall picture of integration which involves the physical, operational, ticketing and information aspects. These are vital to convince the public of the viability of the MRT project.

“But, I'm sure that SPAD has its reasons for announcing the development of the initial line only as of now,” he said in his presentation at the conference.

On other concerns over the MRT project, Goh raised the question of the size of the four-car MRT train.

“The four-car MRT train is expected to carry more than the four-car light rail transit (LRT) system train. Thus, the size of the MRT train may be bigger in diameter.

“A fatter train will need bigger tunnels, which will cost more, or should we have a longer train that will need smaller tunnels?” he asked.

Goh also questioned the need to have the announced Sungai Buloh-Kajang MRT line paralled to the main road and highways.

Nevertheless, he did not dispute the need for a good urban rail transport that should be the backbone of urban public transport.

“But, one has to be aware that MRT is only one of six modes of transport in Kuala Lumpur.

“MRT is unable to be sustainable by itself where it is supported by feeder services. This is because MRT is inflexible. We need other modes of transport to get us to our final destinations.

“Thus, it is vital to have a balanced approach to the master plan of urban public transport where it should be sustainable, flexible in capacity and capability, and expandable,” Goh said.

Quote:
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Old March 10th, 2011, 12:38 PM   #111
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Mixed views on KL-Singapore rail link
By SHARIDAN M. ALI Thursday March 10, 2011
http://biz.thestar.com.my/news/story...&if_height=657

PETALING JAYA: The proposed Kuala Lumpur-Singapore high-speed rail link has gained support owing to its potential to boost growth and there are also concern the project could burden the Government with financially.

A transport consultant has come out in support of the proposed high-speed rail link between Kuala Lumpur and Singapore saying such a service would be a boost to growth ambitions of Malaysia.

But others cautioned about the cost of such a project on government finances, pointing out that the mass rapid transit (MRT) project for Greater Kuala Lumpur and the extension of the light-rail transit (LRT) project is estimated to cost a staggering RM57bil.

Land Public Transport Commission (SPAD) recently said that the Government was conducting a feasibility study on the rail project. The proposal was cited as a high-impact project under the Economic Transformation Programme.

It was reported that the cost of the KL-Singapore high-speed rail was between RM8bil and RM14bil.

Frost & Sullivan vice-president, Asia Pacific transportation & logistics practice and country head, Malaysia Gopal R said the KL-Singapore link was a critical and landmark link that needed to be established through high-speed rail.

“This is a cross-border link that has already been leveraged by different other modes of transport like air and road.

“With the next decade attributable to the growth of the services sector, a high-speed rail connectivity can greatly help organisations to leverage on Greater KL to establish larger offices with competent workforce that can commute most effectively in markets like Singapore.

“In effect, Greater KL will transform into a service sector hub with this model, if high-speed rail connectivity is available towards the north and southern directions, creating a sustainable economic profile for the city,” Gopal told StarBiz.

A transport analyst with a local research house said although there was a need to establish KL-Singapore high-speed rail, the high cost of such a project remained a concern.

“This is because we already got two huge rail projects in hand the MRT system that is estimated to cost RM50bil and extension of the two LRT systems that would cost RM7bil.

“Alternatively, the Government could rely on the private sector to fund the project.

“But, the proposal is still under study. If it is proven viable, I think it would only kick-off in 2012 because the project involves cross-border link,” he said.

On the timing of the high-speed project, taking into consideration that countries globally are still recovering from the economic crisis, Gopal said the economic activity in Malaysia as well as the region was on the rise and the momentum would surely continue into the immediate future. “Therefore, the timing is just right to embark on high-speed rail projects,” he said.

Gopal added that almost all high-speed rail networks had been promoted as a tourist experience and consequently been a must see attraction cities such as in Shanghai, Taipei and Tokyo.

“The connectivity options in any mega city has certainly influenced property values due to the ability of residents to save time in commuting,” he said.

SPAD said it was currently conducting a feasibility study on a high-speed rail link between Kuala Lumpur and Singapore, which is expected it to be completed in May.

“The study will look into the viability, business case, benefits and the possible implementation plan of the project,” it said.

On the types of systems for high-speed rail, it was reported that there were basically two main systems namely, magnetic levitation technology and conventional rail network.
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Old March 13th, 2011, 12:59 PM   #112
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High-speed, high-cost rail
A QUESTION OF BUSINESS By P. GUNASEGARAM Saturday March 12, 2011
http://biz.thestar.com.my/news/story...&if_height=657

Quote:
Why we should look for cheaper alternatives before embarking on an expensive rail link to Singapore
STRANGELY, one reason given for a high-speed rail link between Malaysia and Singapore is that it will increase property values in Kuala Lumpur.

The way it is phrased is interesting, “unlock property values in Kuala Lumpur.” Tell me, who locked property values in Kuala Lumpur in the first place? Perhaps that is key to understanding this convoluted logic.

I can understand that it reduces travel time between Kuala Lumpur and Singapore considerably by land that is. I can see how it might might improve tourist arrivals here, though I don't see why the ingresses into Malaysia right now are insufficient.

Thailand and Indonesia don't have high-speed rail links to anywhere but that has not stopped a burgeoning in their tourist arrivals. In fact, the easiest access to these countries continues to be by air. Lack of rail links has certainly not hampered Bali, for instance the planes make a beeline to it.

The Government through one of its agencies, the Public Land Transport Commission, expects to finish a feasibility study in eight weeks. But let's do a back-of-the-envelop, quick feasibility study here, which may take, oh, about eight minutes.

The cost, we presume before land acquisition and rolling stock (trains to you and me), is expected be RM8bilRM14bil. Let's take the upper end, because by the time all approvals are obtained, that's how much it will cost and add to it a further RM6bil as land acquisition and contingency costs.

That brings the figure up to a nice neat RM20bil. And let's say we need a return on this of 10% a year. That means a net profit of RM2bil a year, a huge amount which only a handful of public-listed companies achieve. And let's say that takes a revenue of 10 times that or RM20bil a year!

That RM20bil is less than the entire revenue of both AirAsia and Malaysia Airlines in a year, implying that we will not in the near future get anywhere near the revenue required to make this rail link profitable on a standalone basis.

Conclusion: It is not commercially viable.

That's why advocates are touting its advantages such as “unlocking” KL property values, increasing tourist arrivals, reducing travel time to Singapore and, in short, becoming a significant contributor to the economy.

Let's take each of these reasons in turn. First, why would a faster link to Singapore result in higher property prices in Kuala Lumpur? Is anyone going to relocate to Kuala Lumpur and commute from KL to Singapore daily? Yes, we agree with you it's a bit far-fetched. Anyway, why do we want to increase property prices in KL? From a Malaysian's point of view, they are already expensive.

As far as tourist arrivals are concerned, cheap fares will get them in faster than a fast, expensive rail ticket. Just let more low-cost airlines come in and let them set up hubs wherever they want.

Yes, time to travel to Singapore will reduce. Advocates say it will be 90 minutes but clearly they have not taken into account immigration procedures. This is not the European Union where they don't check passports. Add 30 minutes for this.

And yes, it takes time to get to the station, let's say 15 minutes. Add these two up to 90 minutes and you get two hours and 15 minutes.

By air, it takes perhaps three hours because people need to get to the airport an hour earlier at least and travelling time is a further 45 minutes to an hour from KL to the international airport.

But, there is a way to cut that time down. Simply make Subang the airport from which to fly to Singapore. That saves 15 minutes. Next, cut check-in time to half an hour before flight if you have no check-in luggage. That's 45 minutes saved.

And, presto! That brings the travel time to the same two hours and 15 minutes and let's not quibble about a few minutes here and a few minutes there, you know what we are getting at.

Even if we are very generous, we may need just RM200mil to upgrade facilities at Subang, which can already take the biggest jets. That's just one per cent, yes one per cent, of RM20bil.

Why don't we do this? Perhaps it is the cost RM200mil is a lot less and a lot less sexier than a massive RM20bil, which is hundred times more. It's just too cheap to be of interest to anybody but for the likes of Tony (you know who), low cost is big money.

Just one last point can anyone tell me where our RM20bil plus double-tracking project has got us so far?

● Managing editor P. Gunasegaram laments the appalling lack of analysis, intended or otherwise, in the way we spend billions on our infrastructure.
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Old March 14th, 2011, 05:53 PM   #113
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The guy is short sighted and a tool. At the end of the day, public infrastructure is not all about ROE, NPV and IRR. Although I do agree with his last point. KTM is still mostly shambles.
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Old March 15th, 2011, 07:49 AM   #114
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I suspect the biggest stumbling block will be short-sightedness, and people who are too enamored with AirAsia - thinking that it's the best thing that ever happened to ASEAN.
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Old March 22nd, 2011, 07:56 PM   #115
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Quote:
La liaison grande vitesse entre Singapour et Kuala Lumpur relancée ?

09/03/2011


L’obstacle politique majeur à tout projet ferroviaire commun entre Singapour et la Malaisie ayant été réglé en 2010 avec la fermeture, programmée pour juillet 2011, de la gare de Keppel Street à Singapour, qui était une enclave malaisienne dans le territoire de la cité Etat, la Public Land Transport Commission du gouvernement malaisien vient d’annoncer qu’elle s’était lancée dans une étude de faisabilité pour relancer l’idée d’une ligne à grande vitesse Singapour - Kuala Lumpur. Affirmant que de prime abord cette liaison de 350 km de long environ, qui mettrait les deux villes à 90 minutes l’une de l’autre, comportait de nombreux avantages sur le plan économique, et notamment un impact positif sur le tourisme et l’immobilier dans la région, la Public Land Transport Commission n’en estime pas moins que la ligne doit aussi être étudiée du point de vue de sa fréquentation et de son impact sur les autres moyens de transport : l’avion, la route et… le rail traditionnel. Car KTMB, l’opérateur du réseau ferré national malaisien, a jusqu’à présent été très réservé sur la grande vitesse que, au contraire, YTL, l’opérateur privé de la Klia, la ligne express de l’aéroport de Kuala Lumpur, soutient depuis longtemps avec, en particulier en 2006-2007, un projet clé en main qui associait Siemens pour la fourniture du système. Les résultats de l’étude de la Public Land Transport Commission seront connus fin avril.
http://www.ville-rail-transports.com...-relanc%C3%A9e

Google translate :

Quote:
The connection speed between Singapore and Kuala Lumpur revived?


09/03/2011


The major political obstacle to any common rail project between Singapore
and Malaysia have been settled in 2010 with the closure, scheduled for July 2011, Keppel Street station in Singapore, which was an enclave in Malaysian territory of the city state The Public Land Transportation Commission of the Malaysian government announced it was undertaking a feasibility study to revive the idea of a high-speed Singapore - Kuala Lumpur. Stating that prima facie this route of 350 km long, which would put the two cities to 90 minutes of each other, provided numerous benefits in economic terms, including a positive impact on tourism and Real estate in the region, the Public Land Transportation Commission nevertheless believes that the line should also be studied in terms of attendance and its impact on other means of transport: air, road and ... traditional rail. For KTMB, the national rail network operator in Malaysia, has so far been very reserved on high speed, on the contrary, YTL, the private operator of KLIA, the airport express line from Kuala Lumpur has long argued with, especially in 2006-2007, a turnkey project that combined Siemens for the supply system. The results of the study of the Public Land Transportation Commission will be announced in late April.
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Old March 23rd, 2011, 04:57 PM   #116
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Singapore government doesn't want it (if they were serious, it'd been built by now) as any HSR/MRT link with a border-less link may cause a paradigm shift in population development in favor of Malaysia. As of now, going through the causeway is a laborious trip with customs on each side that look more like fortresses.

Tajong Pagar was prime location for a HSR terminus but looks like that option is dead. A terminus at Woodlands is the most one can expect, provided that Malaysia get their act together.

Last edited by nemu; March 24th, 2011 at 05:29 PM.
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Old March 24th, 2011, 07:30 PM   #117
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Would Malaysia want a high speed train just to Johore Baharu? Even without Singapore, Johore Baharu is the second biggest city in Malaysia after Kuala Lumpur.
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Old March 25th, 2011, 05:53 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by nemu View Post


Singapore government doesn't want it (if they were serious, it'd been built by now) as any HSR/MRT link with a border-less link may cause a paradigm shift in population development in favor of Malaysia. As of now, going through the causeway is a laborious trip with customs on each side that look more like fortresses.

Tajong Pagar was prime location for a HSR terminus but looks like that option is dead. A terminus at Woodlands is the most one can expect, provided that Malaysia get their act together.
It's not true that Singapore doesn't want it. In fact, plans for a high speed rail line were discussed as far back as the mid 1990s. The ball is really in Malaysia's court - the political will for rail development is very, very weak, as evidenced by the KL subway line plans.

In fact, both governments have committed to a MRT link between JB and Malaysia by 2018 very recently. Especially for Singapore's case, rail alignments prior to official announcements are almost "state secrets" to prevent property speculation. When you consider that the local SSC Singapore community have deduced that the MRT link between Singapore and JB will use infrastructure from the Thomson MRT line, which is an upcoming north-south arterial subway line, it becomes quite clear why it's all hushed up.

Contrary to popular belief, Tanjong Pagar Railway Station was NEVER a "prime location". It's within the city limits, yes, but it's not close to the commercial centres nor any existing MRT stations which makes connectivity a real problem too. A HSR station in downtown needs to be not only in a prime commercial location, but it also needs feeder, domestic and local rail services to enhance its convenience.
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Old March 25th, 2011, 05:08 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by ddes View Post
It's not true that Singapore doesn't want it. In fact, plans for a high speed rail line were discussed as far back as the mid 1990s. The ball is really in Malaysia's court - the political will for rail development is very, very weak, as evidenced by the KL subway line plans.
I guess it is inevitable that a rail link will eventually be built but they certainly aren't showing much enthusiasm. Also, LTA's secrecy on rail alignments is mostly down to lack of transparency and has little to do with curbing property speculation.

Quote:
Contrary to popular belief, Tanjong Pagar Railway Station was NEVER a "prime location". It's within the city limits, yes, but it's not close to the commercial centres nor any existing MRT stations which makes connectivity a real problem too
It's walkable from Tanjong Pagar station and the circle line could potentially connect with it. If they build it, developers will come. In fact, it is the Sg government's eagerness to get rid of the station and then portray it in the press as some sort of political triumph that made me question if they ever really wanted a rail link to Malaysia.

Last edited by nemu; March 26th, 2011 at 07:50 PM.
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Old March 27th, 2011, 09:24 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by nemu View Post
I guess it is inevitable that a rail link will eventually be built but they certainly aren't showing much enthusiasm. Also, LTA's secrecy on rail alignments is mostly down to lack of transparency and has little to do with curbing property speculation.
Did you know that up till mid last year, property developers were including "unconfirmed" train stations and lines on their maps to advertise their own property's convenience? These were based on line speculations by hobbyists and enthusiasts. It was very bad in 2009/10.

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It's walkable from Tanjong Pagar station and the circle line could potentially connect with it. If they build it, developers will come. In fact, it is the Sg government's eagerness to get rid of the station and then portray it in the press as some sort of political triumph that made me question if they ever really wanted a rail link to Malaysia.
It is perfectly understandable that the Singapore govt would want it out: imagine if a train bound for Tanjong Pagar was believed to be laden with explosives... If Singapore ambushed the train in "self defence", it'd be effectively be the agressor if it turned out that the "rumor" isn't true.
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