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Old July 12th, 2012, 11:54 AM   #461
Ji-Ja-Jot
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The HafenCity is a financial and planning desaster.
Hamburg has a urgent need for living space in the center but not for offices (Hamburgs has huge vacancies for office space). It was planned, to attract foregin firms to hire those space in the HafenCity, but that did not work. Instead only some already in Hamburg present companies moved to the HC, leaving empty office space in downtown behind. Furthermore the city for itsself has to hire the offices to insane high rents (its the contract with the investors - if no one wants to move in, the city does).
In the first place Hamburg planned to finace a new Harbour area with the income from the HC, but thats obsolete, because Hamburg loses money with the HC.
And living space is underepresentated. No one can afford to live there, so sheiks or some other billoniares hired flats in the main projects, and spend there 2 days every 3 years

To make a maritime quarter full of exciting maritim architecture is a fail too. Mostly the worst concept took the cake. Even the finished areas are now cold, dull and dead. Only on some sunny days you see much contruction yard tourists, but thats it. Many shops, who hired expensive space there are already bankrupt.
The HafenCity will take its place in a row of Failed Hamburgian city planning projects -> City Nord, City Süd, Steilshoop. During construction everyone said: "Great concept, thats the future of a city." Already one year after the mood was:" Who has to be killed for that?"
The incompetence and greed of all responsible heads is frustrating.
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Old July 12th, 2012, 12:45 PM   #462
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JiJaJot you are always so negative. You latest post is pretty much a summary of the latest Spiegel article. Which was IMO kind of bashing and does not represent reality.
http://www.spiegel.de/reise/staedte/...-a-842923.html

IMO Hafencity is a great project and fantastic addition for Hamburg. Its just not finished yet.

And Hochtief just announced they will finish the EP. So work will continue.

roof finished : 2012
Total completion: 2015

And the image problem will be temporarily. In 10 or 20 years nobody will care and just enjoy the EP.

Quote:
Stadt Hamburg und der Essener Baukonzern einigen sich: Dach wird bis Ende 2012 fertig. Gesamtfertigstellung soll Mitte 2015 sein.
http://www.abendblatt.de/hamburg/art...ut-weiter.html
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Last edited by goschio; July 12th, 2012 at 12:55 PM.
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Old July 12th, 2012, 01:07 PM   #463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ji-Ja-Jot View Post
dead since nearly one year. No informations by the city, if the contract with the building company will be cancelled (deadline for a decision was last Friday). Like the whole HafenCity-project the EP turns more and more to a complete desaster.
[IMG]http://i48.************/2q832pu.jpg[/IMG]
why you say : "like the whole hafencity project"? hafen city is wonderfull
or no?
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Old July 13th, 2012, 11:42 AM   #464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goschio View Post
JiJaJot you are always so negative. You latest post is pretty much a summary of the latest Spiegel article. Which was IMO kind of bashing and does not represent reality.
http://www.spiegel.de/reise/staedte/...-a-842923.html
Yes, that's look like bashing. However it describes the more and more upcomming frustration of us locals very well.
BTW: The Article could bash even more. For example the Spider-Invasion problem.
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Old August 3rd, 2012, 12:48 AM   #465
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I hope this has not been posted before:

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Old August 19th, 2012, 11:39 AM   #466
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Old August 19th, 2012, 11:04 PM   #467
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wow, nice lightning effects. hope this isn`t only a temporary installment
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Old August 20th, 2012, 01:41 AM   #468
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ji-Ja-Jot View Post
The HafenCity is a financial and planning desaster.
Hamburg has a urgent need for living space in the center but not for offices (Hamburgs has huge vacancies for office space). It was planned, to attract foregin firms to hire those space in the HafenCity, but that did not work. Instead only some already in Hamburg present companies moved to the HC, leaving empty office space in downtown behind. Furthermore the city for itsself has to hire the offices to insane high rents (its the contract with the investors - if no one wants to move in, the city does).
In the first place Hamburg planned to finace a new Harbour area with the income from the HC, but thats obsolete, because Hamburg loses money with the HC.
And living space is underepresentated. No one can afford to live there, so sheiks or some other billoniares hired flats in the main projects, and spend there 2 days every 3 years

To make a maritime quarter full of exciting maritim architecture is a fail too. Mostly the worst concept took the cake. Even the finished areas are now cold, dull and dead. Only on some sunny days you see much contruction yard tourists, but thats it. Many shops, who hired expensive space there are already bankrupt.
The HafenCity will take its place in a row of Failed Hamburgian city planning projects -> City Nord, City Süd, Steilshoop. During construction everyone said: "Great concept, thats the future of a city." Already one year after the mood was:" Who has to be killed for that?"
The incompetence and greed of all responsible heads is frustrating.
yes its true ! the elbphilarmonie is a financial disaster !

this equipment would have cost 186 million euros at the beginning and now the bill has already reached 600 million euros.
what a financial mismanagement samely as with the airport of berlin.
the elbphilarmonie will be inaugurated with four years late.

Last edited by turangalia; August 20th, 2012 at 01:56 PM.
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Old August 20th, 2012, 11:21 AM   #469
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It is not German incompetence. It is the incompetence of the politicians. They want to build up prestige projects connected with their name (EP - Ole von Beust, Berlin Airport - Wowereit) But they would never bring those projects through the parlaments if the costings are estimated correct, so they try to let the constructers and architects to calculate far to low. The bill will pay someone else. Von beust is gone but new Mayor Scholz is now the one who is confronted with this mess and the bill for the Berlin Airport is payed by other states and the federation but not by Berlin.

@ gosh
it was only for some days illuminated like this
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Old August 20th, 2012, 11:40 AM   #470
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That is majestic!
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Old August 20th, 2012, 02:00 PM   #471
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ji-Ja-Jot View Post

It is not German incompetence. It is the incompetence of the politicians. They want to build up prestige projects connected with their name (EP - Ole von Beust, Berlin Airport - Wowereit) But they would never bring those projects through the parlaments if the costings are estimated correct, so they try to let the constructers and architects to calculate far to low. The bill will pay someone else. Von beust is gone but new Mayor Scholz is now the one who is confronted with this mess and the bill for the Berlin Airport is payed by other states and the federation but not by Berlin.

@ gosh
it was only for some days illuminated like this
sorry ji-ja-jot,
I was harsh before. In Paris also some projects have seen their costs explode.
To win, to win a contest, architectural firms voluntarily minimize the amount of their quote, minimize the cost of their projects.

i have cancell in my previous post the words :"german incompetence at his splendor".
i was too harsh. you can see financial disasters everywhere in paris, london, nyc, et caetera.

an example in Paris,
almost projects won and made by Jean Nouvek have seen their costs explode, it's deplorable, I refer particularly to the current project of the Philharmonie in Paris.

I do not understand why the less expensive projects are always the ones who win. the cheapest is never the best
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Old August 20th, 2012, 02:57 PM   #472
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Happens everywhere, it's called Ferrari syndrome, but it's still a great project.
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Old August 21st, 2012, 01:10 PM   #473
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Better waste the money in nice buildings than the usual crap.
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Old August 21st, 2012, 03:00 PM   #474
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goschio View Post
Better waste the money in nice buildings than the usual crap.
i don't know but i am honest the elbphilarmonie is representing for me one of the most amazing realisation on earth.
i was reading the BILDZEITUNG most famous german news paper, that DIETER BOHLEN a famous german star wants to be the director of the ELBPHILARMONIE
??????? intox ?????
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Old August 21st, 2012, 04:46 PM   #475
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that would be pathetic cause he is a moron and has no ability therefore.
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Old August 22nd, 2012, 02:14 AM   #476
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i have mixed feelings about this building. i hope to visit it one day and decide for myself. i do think that cheapest is not always best as was said before.
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Old August 26th, 2012, 07:41 PM   #477
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If Dieter Bohlen gets director of the EP the desaster would be perfect

some pics from unusual views






and one pic that shows, that Hamburg Harbour is Hamburg Harbour, a significant part of the city, and not 50 Kilometers or something away like other big harbours of the world
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Old August 27th, 2012, 06:29 AM   #478
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i don't know but i am honest the elbphilarmonie is representing for me one of the most amazing realisation on earth.
I love it too. Just said that the money is well spent. Even if it costs 3 times the original plan. There are much worse ways to spend money in Germany.
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Behold, the Lord hath a mighty and strong one, which as a tempest of hail and a destroying storm, as a flood of mighty waters overflowing, shall cast down to the earth with the hand.

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And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
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Old August 27th, 2012, 01:58 PM   #479
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here a link :

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/kultur/el...auen-1.1446866

Since November 2011 at the Elbe Philharmonic went ahead any more, instead, argued the city of Hamburg and the construction company Hochtief about problems and ever-increasing costs. We now have a tentative agreement. According to her will initially for one year and then re-planned built two years.

The last years have been traded as a 2014 or 2015 completion date for the Hamburg concert hall, now it is probably the later: the earliest in the summer of 2015, the concert hall finished in the present state of things. This is clear from the new status report on Elbe Philharmonic, which was adopted on Tuesday by the Hamburg SPD Senate. "At the half-yearly report, the policy paper is attached to which are the city and Hochtief agreed in early July," said the spokesman for the Department of Culture, Karl Olaf Petters.



sorry aber die übersetzung von English auf Deutsch ist nicht so einfach.
also noch ein Jahr Planung, dann zwei Jahre Bau und dann soll es endlich aufgehen Sommer 2015.
wahnsinn.
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Old September 12th, 2012, 02:57 PM   #480
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The fun continues.
Now the next explosion of costs seems to be right ahead, because since the agreement in Summer between the city and HochTief nochting happened at the construction yard.
The GAL-Fraction calculates with 175 Million Euro more.

So we startet with 186 Million and would now get to 675 Million if the new worries become true
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