New Baltimore Arena?! BREAKING NEWS

[PeterSmith]

Well, the Sonics are leaving Seattle most likely. Would have been great to have an arena in Baltimore to scoop them up..... But instead they'll most likely go to the thriving metropolis of Oklahoma City.... The Trailblazers are struggling to get an arena in Portland, maybe we can plan ahead for them.

[Tricia_Lvs_Baltimore]

Originally Posted by PeterSmith

Well, the Sonics are leaving Seattle most likely. Would have been great to have an arena in Baltimore to scoop them up..... But instead they'll most likely go to the thriving metropolis of Oklahoma City.... The Trailblazers are struggling to get an arena in Portland, maybe we can plan ahead for them.

Are you serious? The Portland Trailblazers just got a new arena. They just got it in 1995. It's called the Rose Garden Arena. I love that name!



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rose_Garden_Arena

[micrip]

Originally Posted by Tricia_Lvs_Baltimore

Are you serious? The Portland Trailblazers just got a new arena. They just got it in 1995. It's called the Rose Garden Arena. I love that name!



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rose_Garden_Arena

Arenas do seem to have a shorter shelf life than baseball and football stadiums. A 12 year old arena is well into middle age, if you look at past history.

For example, the Capital Centre was only around 20 years old when it was abandoned for the MCI (now Verizon) center, and Abe Pollin is already clamoring for renovations there. If I recall, the Miami arena was only a teenager when that got replaced.

And of course the infamous 1st Mariner Arena (nee Civic Center) was obsolete less than 10 years after its door opened.

[Balmurfan]

Baltimore Business Journal - April 20, 2007by Ryan SharrowStaff
Nicholas Griner | Staf

Most city leaders agree that First Mariner Arena needs to be replaced.
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Baltimore may have given up hope of snagging a professional basketball team, but it's not giving up on a plan to build a new indoor arena. There is even a short list of potential sites being bandied about, some that may seem downright pie-in-the-sky, others a bit more realistic.

Some business leaders say it's too early to say where a potential arena may go. But everyone seems to agree that First Mariner Arena is way past its prime.

If anyone has the entire article I would love to read the rest of it!!!

[StevenW]

Yes, me too.

[jamie_hunt]

Originally Posted by Balmurfan

Baltimore Business Journal:
Some business leaders say it's too early to say where a potential arena may go.

Uh huh. Seems like that would be the first thing to decide.

[sdeclue]

Steven, I read the story in the print form and here is the gist.

The report that will be released is going to help for a new arena. It pointedly says the current arena is completely outdated and a new one must be constructed.

It also says that it could cost up to $150 million to build, but a later study will focus on possible sites.

However, the story did mention sites that through sources it knows have been talked about.

These include the Superblock, State Center, Gateway South, the parking lot between Camden Yards and M&T Bank Stadium as well as the area across from Ravens stadium that has a Staples in it.

The current arena is also listed as a possible site for a new one but they don't want to go that route because it could leave the city without an arena for 3 years.

It was also apparent from the article that renovation of the existing arena is no longer an option because it would cost as much if not more to fix up the current one as opposed to just building a new one.

All in all, a very positive article but the progress on this seems to be pretty slow.

[getontrac]

I really don't like the superblock locale because I want some preservation of fine-grain urban fabric, if nothing else.

State Center is bad because it is mostly surrounded by residential. I don't think it would enhance Eutaw Place at all.

Nate

[jamie_hunt]

Right. Plus the Superblock would require closing Park Ave to have a big enough footprint. Would like to see a new arena with an NBA team, but would like it close to, but not in, the CBD. Problem is, most CBD arenas (including ours and the Verizon Center in DC) don't add a lot to the activity on the street, except for before and after events. (And only bars and restaurants benefit.) The TD Banknorth Garden in Boston is an exception, but mostly because it's also a busy commuter rail station. Also, it's set back from the street, and will eventually have a tower in front of it. Current arena site, served by light rail and subway, has great potential for mixed use development.

[StevenW]

Originally Posted by sdeclue

Steven, I read the story in the print form and here is the gist.

The report that will be released is going to help for a new arena. It pointedly says the current arena is completely outdated and a new one must be constructed.

It also says that it could cost up to $150 million to build, but a later study will focus on possible sites.

However, the story did mention sites that through sources it knows have been talked about.

These include the Superblock, State Center, Gateway South, the parking lot between Camden Yards and M&T Bank Stadium as well as the area across from Ravens stadium that has a Staples in it.

The current arena is also listed as a possible site for a new one but they don't want to go that route because it could leave the city without an arena for 3 years.

It was also apparent from the article that renovation of the existing arena is no longer an option because it would cost as much if not more to fix up the current one as opposed to just building a new one.

All in all, a very positive article but the progress on this seems to be pretty slow.

Thank you, sdeclue.

[MasonsInquiries]

Originally Posted by sdeclue

These include the Superblock, State Center, Gateway South, the parking lot between Camden Yards and M&T Bank Stadium as well as the area across from Ravens stadium that has a Staples in it.

hmmmmm, the parking lot between the 2 stadiums. i never considered this spot. it just might work, but parking might become a nightmare in the process. what do you guys think???

[jamie_hunt]

Originally Posted by MasonsInquiries

hmmmmm, the parking lot between the 2 stadiums. i never considered this spot. i just might work, but parking might become a nightmare in the process. what do you guys think???

Could work ... seems tight though and you're right: parking would be a problem. SW corner of Russell and W. Hamburg (Staples site) across the street from M&T might work better.

[Maudibjr]

Originally Posted by MasonsInquiries

hmmmmm, the parking lot between the 2 stadiums. i never considered this spot. it just might work, but parking might become a nightmare in the process. what do you guys think???

That would be a tight fit, maybe if the removed the russel street to MLK west loop,

What about directly south of the Stadium. South of Stoockholm St. and next to the Ray Lewis development.

[jamie_hunt]

Originally Posted by Maudibjr

What about directly south of the Stadium? South of Stockholm St. and next to the Ray Lewis development.

That site would be pretty cool if the adjacent mudflats could be filled in. IIRC, a lot of the debris from the 1904 Baltimore Fire was dumped there. Of course, one man's mudflats are another man's wetlands.

At any rate, to get a sense of how large a site would be needed, compare this site with the Staples site on the NW corner of Russell and West (just across from M&T), which at about 6 acres is roughly the same size as the current arena site on the SE corner of Howard and Baltimore (you can click and drag on the map to see it). So, would probably need to fill in about four acres. Anyone know what the mitigation requirements are? Or, is there just no way this would pass environmental review?

[30 Floors Up]

I think ANY site for a new arena that is not Downtown, or directly next to Downtown, will be a huge squandered economic opportunity.

1. We currently have thousands of downtown parking spaces that are not in use during the evenings and on weekends. The garages under all those highrises are mostly empty when the offices workers go home. Coincidentally, those are the times when most arena functions are held.

2. Any other site will require extensive use of the automobile instead of mass transit for people to get to functions. Downtown is served by subway, light rail, Marc, and most busses. Most of the other sites aren't (I know, State Center is). The one time an average suburban family will use mass transit is to go to a function in a stadium or arena. Just look at the Raven's games for proof. And remember, people will be coming from all directions for events. Downtown is central.

3. An arena, surrounded by a sea of parking, doesn't exactly make people want to make a day of an event. I don't see people arriving early or lingering afterward if the arena is sited in Canton, Westport, or even State Center (though that is the least objectionable of the alternatives to me). If it were downtown, you'd make a day of your event and most likely go to the harbor and have dinner. As such, tax revenue would be greater to the city and state because people are going to eat and shop as well as attend their event.

4. The amount of pedestrian traffic would greatly increase downtown giving the area a 24/7 feel and leading to spin off businesses AND an increase in safety.

Is this not common sense?

[jamie_hunt]

Originally Posted by 30 Floors Up

Is this not common sense?

Seems like it would be, but demographic/user data would be helpful. Perhaps it's not fair to use the current downtown arena as an example, but I've been going to events--basketball, hockey, wrestling, Disney, circus, monster trucks, motocross, graduations, you name it--there since the NBA Bullets and AHL Clippers were in residence and have never "made a day of it." Perhaps people do, but how can you tell? Most seem like they're racing straight from their parking spaces. The arena's busiest when the weather's cold and crappy. The lack of activity around it during non-event days (200-some per year) makes it a dead spot in the heart of downtown. The post-event surge is nice, but before and after that the streets aren't particularly active.

Philly seems to do well with their sports complex at Broad and Pattison, miles from their CBD.

[scando]

Originally Posted by jamie_hunt

That site would be pretty cool if the adjacent mudflats could be filled in. IIRC, a lot of the debris from the 1904 Baltimore Fire was dumped there. Of course, one man's mudflats are another man's wetlands.

At any rate, to get a sense of how large a site would be needed, compare this site with the Staples site on the NW corner of Russell and West (just across from M&T), which at about 6 acres is roughly the same size as the current arena site on the SE corner of Howard and Baltimore (you can click and drag on the map to see it). So, would probably need to fill in about four acres. Anyone know what the mitigation requirements are? Or, is there just no way this would pass environmental review?

It is possible to fill in wetlands. I think that they would have to create something like 1 1/2 times the acreage in new wetland somewhere else in the area. It was done when the Key Bridge was built. It would, however, probably be a long, controversial and expensive piece of land.

[jamie_hunt]

Originally Posted by scando

It would, however, probably be a long, controversial and expensive piece of land.

You're probably right. On the other hand, the city already owns the shoreline, and wouldn't have to condemn and acquire property and businesses. Imagine driving in on I-395 and seeing something like Kansas City's Sprint Center perched on the shoreline, with compensatory wetlands in the foreground, Ravens, er, M&T Bank Stadium in the background, and the Ray Lewis/Cormony Gateway project off to the left.

Add waterfront promenades linking these places with Pat Turner's project in Westport and the Aquarium's project near the Hanover Street Bridge. Throw in a WaterFire presentation to lure folks down on non-game weekend nights. (Would work better if there were restaurants and retail in Ray's project ...).

Replace some of the glass in the Sprint design with solar panels: the nation's first "green" arena ... short walk from the Hamburg Street Light Rail Station. Somewhat longer walk from Federal Hill/Sharp-Leadenhall/SoBo.

[cgunna]

I still am still all for the arena being placed on the existing site. The size limitations of the parcel have been well documented but it is still most certainly possible. Like I said before, it just would take some creative architecture/engineering but it can be done.

Talk about ecomomic impact.....A Arena at Baltimore and Howard would totally invigorate that area. The current arena is basically just that: an arena. More modern facilities are replete with other retail/dining/recreational (Harlem??? lol) facilities that make the site more useful even when events are not planned.

With all the money the CIty is looking to dump on that side of town and with the Hipp doing well and the UM expansion, an arena there will invigorate that entire are (if its done correctly that is) to ends that may only be rivaled by the waterfront. Ok so that might be a stretch but what the heck.

Public Transportation, parking, the political will to develop the surrounding areas.....talk about an economic opportunity

[jamie_hunt]

Originally Posted by cgunna

Talk about economic impact.....an Arena at Baltimore and Howard would totally invigorate that area. The current arena is basically just that: an arena. More modern facilities are replete with other retail/dining/recreational (Harlem??? lol) facilities that make the site more useful even when events are not planned.

It'll be interesting to see how Kansas City's arena project turns out. They're building it next to/as part of Cordish's Kansas City Power and Light District. And their arena will also have the College Basketball Hall of Fame, which should attract visitors year-round. If this is the sort of project you're thinking of, that might be pretty cool. Baltimore Street from Eutaw (Hippodrome and Everyman Theaters) to Market Place (Power Plant Live and parts of The Block) could be a cross between NOLA's Bourbon Street and Memphis's Beale Street, with a new arena as a centerpiece.