Tampa Riverwalk

[kmthurman]

Originally Posted by tampasteve

A huge factor in the future and current state of the city/metro area that most people on here tend to forget is that a large percentage of the populace moved and moves here exactly for what it is, not what it could be. They will and do actively fight against what many of us see as progression. They actively do not want transit, urban densification, etc. because they came from areas with these things and moved here to get away from them.

THEY, love that one. People move for a lot of reasons. Two biggest reasons cited here are quality of life and economic reasons (job or cheap housing). I don't think they move here just to get away from cities. If that was true half the people that have moved here from 2009 on hate their life.

This is a big difference from why people move to progressive cities such as Austin or Seattle. People move here for sprawl and a certain lifestyle that is not what we would consider growth or progressive urban development. People move to those cities for what they can be, what they will be, and for what they are.

People move to Austin for sprawl as much as they move to Tampa for the same reason. To pretend otherwise is against the face of data. Same existed for seattle 20 years ago. It took small groups of people in the late 80'/90's to make seattle different, and again in the late 90s/early 2000s for Austin. To say Tampa can't draw a few thousand people like that I think is a bit pessimistic. Is it easy no. Is it worth trying. Yes.

I am not saying that Tampa could not change, but it is going to be a much more difficult struggle to make this city progress than it may seem to many on the surface.

Tampa is what it is, a decent medium size city that attracts a certain type of person.

And it has been many other things in it's past. If history says anything its that is going to change for the worse or for the better.

Plus never said it was going to be easy, just think the possibilities aren't settled yet.

[kmthurman]

Originally Posted by koopalicious

I don't know of anyone that has moved to Tampa because of "sprawl". And if people are moving here for that, they're probably going to become disappointed when they settle in and find out that its urbanization is not too different than most other mid-sized cities in the country. Maybe there are people that move to parts of the metro or surrounding areas for certain reasons, but that's hardly unique within the state.

I don't mean this as an attack on you, or anyone else for that matter, but one thing that I do feel is a problem is the fact that we spend so much time focusing on what other people in the community might think, want, or do, instead of pursing the things that we desire and can affect.

Seconded!

[Jasonhouse]

I have and actually it focuses as much on the need for citizens to trust

You couldn't pay me to trust the local 'deciders'.

[kmthurman]

Originally Posted by Jasonhouse

You couldn't pay me to trust the local 'deciders'.

Yeah I understand why you say that, don't "trust" them either. I do think they are far more influenceable and predictable than most here think though. Just pointing out what the ULI report actually said.

[Del Mayberry]

Riverwalk's historical trail taking shape
http://www2.tbo.com/news/south-tampa...ape-ar-451078/

By JOSH POLTILOVE | The Tampa Tribune
Published: August 02, 2012
Updated: August 02, 2012 - 10:05 PM
By year's end, the makings of a historical monument trail will take shape when the busts of six Tampa area trailblazers are unveiled along the downtown Riverwalk.
Three oil-based clay busts already are formed, and in coming months the works will be turned into bronze busts. Artist Steve Dickey is continuing to fashion the three other busts, which he said are between five and 30 percent complete.
On Thursday, Dickey showed off the completed clay busts of a Mound Builder, one of Florida's first people; nurse Clara Frye; and Henry B. Plant, who brought the railroad and the Tampa Bay Hotel to Tampa.
Dickey still is working on the busts of cigar czar Vicente Martinez-Ybor; shipping magnate James McKay; and suffragist Eleanor McWilliams Chamberlain.
In March, the six historical figures lauded for their positive effects on Tampa or Hillsborough County were chosen for busts.
A panel of nine historians including Tampa Bay History Center curator Rodney Kite-Powell and former Tampa Tribune reporter Leland Hawes selected the honorees.
The six busts likely will be completed in November and unveiled along the Riverwalk in early December, said Steve Anderson, vice president of the board of Friends of the Riverwalk.
Plant's bust will be placed along the Riverwalk by Curtis Hixon Waterfront Park; Frye's at Waterworks Park; the Mound Builder at Cotanchobee Park; Ybor's near the history center; Chamberlain's at the Performing Arts Center; and McKay's at the Convention Center.
The first six busts will be placed on solid granite pedestals. Each pedestal will have a plaque describing the person's accomplishments.
The nonprofit group Friends of the Riverwalk worked with the Tampa Bay History Center on the project. Private donations paid for the six busts.
In future years, dozens more contributors will be honored on the trail winding along downtown Tampa's waterfront. Monuments showcasing seminal events in the county's history ultimately will be added, too. The project's goal is to inform Riverwalk strollers about the area's significant people and events. Honorees must be dead at least 15 years.
Money already is available, through county and private sources, to produce the next three years' worth of honorees, Anderson said. The goal is to announce the next six in early February.
Ultimately the Riverwalk will span about 2½ miles and create a pedestrian corridor from the Channel District to Tampa Heights.
For more information about the six honorees, visit http://www.tampariverwalkhistorictra.../honorees.html
jpoltilove@tampatrib.com (813) 259-7691

[jonknee]

I went on the new segment for the first time last night. It sort of dead ends because of the RNC security, but it was a nice vantage point. Went back during the evening and watched a great sunset (albeit with about 100 armed guards).

[smiley]

Looks like it would be easy to put a restaurant right there. . .

[jonknee]

Right where?

[smiley]

Right there on the riverwalk section in the picture - like San Antonio.

[kmthurman]

Originally Posted by smiley

Right there on the riverwalk section in the picture - like San Antonio.

Believe it or not, it is very doable when they tear down Captrust (or if they just repurposed that parking lot space). All you'd have to do is build a deck out to meet it the seawall almost touches it.

More realistically, why would that section need one when it will have a building with access directly to at the end of it? Love it or hate it we can make the Riverwalk retail driven at every point -- we have to pave our own way.

[smiley]

1) when are they tearing down CapTrust . . . I need to tell the people I know who work there.
2) there is no building with ground floor space on the river there - the closest one is the hotel.
3) You can't make it retail driven unless, as you point out, you start demolishing buildings - which going to bring you parking lots. I have yet to hear anyone explain how they are going to put retail on the river.

[smiley]

It would be nice if it happened, but it is nothing like San Antonio and the plan is actually kind of stupid in a lot of places. People have to actually think of how to make a wholesale change on the river and all of downtown - that is not going to happen anytime soon.

[tampaizzy]

I think he was alluding to the fact that eventually they will tear down the cap trust and when they do in the future they could easily build something useful for the riverwalk, also that has the empty lot where the trump tower was suppose to go so they can just repurpose that very attractive parcel and put retail and there already seems to be a changing on the view of the river and its interaction with downtown as evident by the many initiatives being set forth so i would say no it is not san antonio yet but i wouldn't say it is ridiculous to think that it is heading that way sooner rather than later

[Jasonhouse]

Unless someone decides that they want the Cap Trust lot to be included in the development of the old Trump Tower lot, then Cap Trust isn't going anywhere for like, decades.

[jonknee]

Originally Posted by Jasonhouse

Unless someone decides that they want the Cap Trust lot to be included in the development of the old Trump Tower lot, then Cap Trust isn't going anywhere for like, decades.

It's owned by the same people, so there is at least that. But they just put a lot of money into Cap Trust, so I'm doubting it goes anywhere quickly. Perhaps they could convert some of the first floor parking into retail though, it's right at the level of the Riverwalk.

[Jasonhouse]

Maybe a tax incentive could be provided that would motivate the eventual development to include extra parking, so that Cap Trust's parking area could be converted to ground floor commercial space.

Or, the city could change the parking reqs for DT new developments and even existing buildings which meet certain guidelines.

[koopalicious]

Originally Posted by smiley

3) You can't make it retail driven unless, as you point out, you start demolishing buildings - which going to bring you parking lots. I have yet to hear anyone explain how they are going to put retail on the river.

The only real offenders on the river are the CapTrust building and the Mercantile Bank building, neither of which have a large enough footprint to warrant much of a fuss. And although it won't be directly connected to the Riverwalk, the Mercantile Bank building already has an outdoor area where you could potentially put up something temporary with a few tables and chairs. That leaves the rest of the Riverwalk available.

[smiley]

Except the parks and the convention center. . .

Then all the buildings one block from the riverwalk behind the parks do not face the river. . . in fact they do not even touch the sidewalk for the most part.

[smiley]

Originally Posted by tampaizzy

I think he was alluding to the fact that eventually they will tear down the cap trust and when they do in the future they could easily build something useful for the riverwalk, also that has the empty lot where the trump tower was suppose to go so they can just repurpose that very attractive parcel and put retail and there already seems to be a changing on the view of the river and its interaction with downtown as evident by the many initiatives being set forth so i would say no it is not san antonio yet but i wouldn't say it is ridiculous to think that it is heading that way sooner rather than later

Actually, it is ridiculous. It is nothing like that, nor should/could it be. Completely different circumstances.

[kmthurman]

Originally Posted by smiley

Actually, it is ridiculous. It is nothing like that, nor should/could it be. Completely different circumstances.

This was my point at the beginning.

That said -- just because the walk is over the water doesn't mean it can't connect to the Riverwalk. Just built another walkway. It actually makes it unique. The new section will connect directly to the Sheraton & it's restaurant and could do the same to the Merchantile bank building.

Here's a possible scenario for CapTrust if they keep it for decades -- they build the new building and build parking into that building than repurpose the garage area to use as retail space, and move parking to the new building. It would connect the two building and allow them to keep parking and raise rents. May they not do it? Sure. But saying there is no way to connect that part of the riverwalk to retail is shortsighted.

I agree with everyone that the planning so far has been shortsighted (like using environmental trust money to create huge parks that prevent commerical activity) but there is real possibility and demand to be hue for the riverwalk.