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Old November 14th, 2008, 11:47 PM   #761
habagatcentral1
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Idealistically yes...just to avoid confusion.
In Cotabato, all Hiligaynon and Kinaray-a speakers, whether from Panay or Negros, are considered colloquially as Ilonggos.
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Old November 15th, 2008, 09:00 AM   #762
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habagatcentral1 View Post
This is just from my fragmented memory of my VS101 subject, hehe!!!
  1. The most probable origin of Hiligaynon language is Panay Island itself. Negros was sparsely inhabited as compared to Panay. Most of the old legends and traditions are from Panay. Because also of numerous rivers in Panay Island (particularly the Iloilo basin) like Jalaur, Jaro-Tigum-Aganan, Suague, Sibalom and Iloilo-Batiano and the traditions are always associated by the river...the possibility that the people are doing "ga-ilig" or doing something in the water current.
  2. Ilonggo refers mostly to the people and Hiligaynon is to language. That's what is now considered a standard although as mentioned by the article above, the legendary F.Jocano (himself an Ilonggo) used Hiligaynon for reference of the people of Western Visayas.
  3. The works of Magdalena Jalandoni and the likes. But from the traditional point of view, the "Hinilawud" is the greatest literature so far...Epics about the distant past, of Labaw Donggon and traditions of the Panayanons.
Anyway, I couldn't answer you that completely Juan as it has been a long time ago and couldn't remember the exact details in our research and class.

salamat gid, utod bernie mack.
so Ilonggo may also refer to Kinaray-a, Akeanon, Capiznon (is this a language?) what about the Malaynon and Romblomanon? Ati?

magamohon gid ining hambal, madamo sobra sobra ang ngalan. hehe!
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Old November 15th, 2008, 09:27 AM   #763
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Amo na...guinhimo ang amo na nga mga tinaga kay tungod para ma-bal-an kon sa diin nga lugar ang isa ka tumandok naga-halin...ang pinulungang Hiligaynon, makasakup ini sa mga Capiznon (nga may ara sang ila nga pinasahi nga tuno kag tinaga kag pamutang sang mga tinaga sa isa ka sentence) kag Kinaray-a.

Sa matuod lang, madamu ang nagapamensar nga ang mga Ilonggo makahambal lang sing tuno nga bal-an sang bilog nga pungsod...amo na to nga malulo kag daw matam-is nga yuhum...pero sa mga taga-Probinsya sang Iloilo, nagahambal man sanda kang Kinaray-a. Amo na ang pinulong sa sentro kag nabagatang bahin sang probinsya. Medyo lain ang ila nga tuno kag mga tinaga...

Halimbawa:

Code:
Ingles          Tagalog            Hiligaynon-Sina               Kinaray-a
Feet            Paa                 Tiil                              Kahig
Dog             Aso                 Ido                             Ayam
Cat              Pusa               Kuring                         Iring
Today          Ngayon            Subong                       subong
Tomorrow      Bukas             Buwas                         Rum-an
Mine             Akin               Akon                           Takon
They            Sila                Sila                             Sanda
Know            Alam              Bal-an                         Kama-an
Many            Marami           Madamu                       Duro
Here             Dito               Diri                         Digya/dya/ja
Muddy          Maputik          Malutak                        Marutak
Ugaling, may nagahambal nga kon magsiling ka ngab "Ilonggo," daw exclusive bala ini sa mga tumandok sang syudad kag probinsya sang Iloilo. Amo na sang sugod dekada 80, ang mga iskolar kag mga manggaranon nga Negrosanon, nagsugod na sa pag-identicar sa ila kaugalingon nga mga "Negrense" biskan kalabanan sa ila ang ila nga ginhalinan ay nagahalin sa Isla sang Panay, partikular na ang probinsya sang Iloilo kag Antique kag ang mga banwa sang Jaro kag Molo (sang wala pa ginhimo ang Ciudad sang Iloilo).

Pero kon yara ka sa Cotabato, basta magahambal ka lang sang Hiligaynon-Sina kag Kinaray-a kag halin ka sa Bisayas Nakatundan, ilabel ka na dayon nga "Ilonggo" biskan halin ka pa Negros, Antique, Iloilo ukon Capiz.

Ang Aklanon ya, may lain man sila nga pinulong nga bisan ang mga Ilonggo wala gid kaintiende, pero ang mga Aklanon makahambal kag makaintiende man sang Hiligaynon.

Isa ka maayo nga halimbawa sang Akeanon:
"Ro anwang na nagaeog-gaeog sa eogan-eogan." - Aklanon
"Ang kalabaw ya nagalublub sa lubluban." - Hiligaynon

"Ro kaeamay naga-kaheapot sa kaeaha." - Aklanon
"Ang kalamay naga-kalaput sa kalaha." - Hiligaynon

Mabudlayan ang mga Ilonggo na nagahambal sang Hiligaynon Sina nga ipronounce ang ea ee ei eo eu...ugaring may yara man nga mga Kinaray-a kag Capiznon nga makahambal sini kay tungod lapit man sila sa tagsa-tagsa.

Ang Inati naman ukon pinulong nga Ati, lain man sa Kinaray-a biskan daw Kinaray-a pamati-an. Ang tawag nila sa mga taga-ubos ukon patag, amo na ang mga "Bisaya." Wala sila labot kon Cebuano, Ilonggo ukon Waray ina. Basta taga-ubos.

Ang "Ligbuk," amo naman kuno nga mas madalum pa kon ikumpara sa Kinaray-a kay tungod amo ni ang pinulong sang mga Panay-Bukidnon, isa ka tumandok ukon indigenous tribe nga nakatener sa kabukiran sang sentro sang Panay. Sa ila makit-an ang pina-madamu nga manggad sang literaturang tradisyunal sang mga Panayanon.

Sa lip-ot nga mga tinaga: "Guinhimo inang locality labeling nga daw citizenship sa isa ka lugar."
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Old November 15th, 2008, 10:22 AM   #764
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habagatcentral1 View Post
Even the general term for us, "Visaya" which I searched with futility in Alcina's text.

The term "Bisaya" is an old, indigenous term mentioned in Chinese
chronicles. William Henry Scott specialized in the study of prehispanic
Filipino culture and society. He read in several languages, one of them
was Mandarin. One of his landmark books was on early Chinese accounts of
the Philippines.

A Chinese account from the 12th century or earlier (I have to check Scott
again on this) states that a coastal settlement in Southern China was
raided by dark-skinned men, with tattoos, who called themselves
"Pei-she-ya."

Bisayans were famous for their tattoos -- hence "Pintados" and they ranged
far and wide to capture slaves either to serve in their households or to
serve as sacriicial victims when a nobleman died. A fragment of an epic
noted by the Jesuit Ignacio Alcina (1668), who lived among the Visayans,
mentions that a major test for a man was to roam as far as China hunting
for people to capture. This appears in another book by W.H. Scott.

---

Kindly read Scott's "Filipinos in China before 1500" again pp. 4-5.

"Riding the southern monsoons of 1171 and 1172, Visayan (Pi-she-ya)
raiders struck the Fujian coast just south of Quanzhou Bay... Since the
natives of Taiwan do not appear in Chinese accounts as seafarers, these
Pi-she-ya were more likely Filipino Visayans, known to the Chinese in the
14th century as slave-raiders who sold their captives at two ounces of
gold apiece."

He then points out that as late as the 17th century Visayan bards were
singing of the valor of a Datong Sumangga who raided the Chinese coast to
win the hand of Princess Bugbung of Bohol. The lady wanted him to raid
that kingdom whose people 'chirp like birds with a singsong voice' to
show that he was indeed brave. So he did and came back with captives.
The epic was recorded by the Jesuit Alcina, who lived among the Visayans.
It was summarized and analyzed by Scott in "Looking for the Prehispanic
Filipino", pp. 113-116.

---

Tattooing disappeared because the Visayans became Christian and
hispanized! Kindly read Alcina (1668) on early Visayan customs.

Many customs reported by the early Spanish missionaries among the Visayans
have disappeared. Others have survived. It's a simple as that.

---

Notes coming from Ateneo de Manila anthropologist Fernando Nakpil Zialcita. That is just the general name of the natives residing in the Visayas region and Northern Mindanao of today. Another account written by a Spanish chronicler was that the natives of Northern Mindanao also called themselves "Bisaya". Logically, it's not impossible because of the proximity of the islands.
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Old November 15th, 2008, 04:13 PM   #765
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Of all the people....why si bossing pa ang nag-note?

Anyway, thanks for the clarification. Be needing some material for my research topic for pre-Hispanic and Hispanic Philippines pertaining to historiography...quite steep because I'll be focusing more on Visayas...
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Old November 17th, 2008, 12:44 AM   #766
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habagatcentral1 View Post
Amo na...guinhimo ang amo na nga mga tinaga kay tungod para ma-bal-an kon sa diin nga lugar ang isa ka tumandok naga-halin...ang pinulungang Hiligaynon, makasakup ini sa mga Capiznon (nga may ara sang ila nga pinasahi nga tuno kag tinaga kag pamutang sang mga tinaga sa isa ka sentence) kag Kinaray-a.

Sa matuod lang, madamu ang nagapamensar nga ang mga Ilonggo makahambal lang sing tuno nga bal-an sang bilog nga pungsod...amo na to nga malulo kag daw matam-is nga yuhum...pero sa mga taga-Probinsya sang Iloilo, nagahambal man sanda kang Kinaray-a. Amo na ang pinulong sa sentro kag nabagatang bahin sang probinsya. Medyo lain ang ila nga tuno kag mga tinaga...

Halimbawa:

Code:
Ingles          Tagalog            Hiligaynon-Sina               Kinaray-a
Feet            Paa                 Tiil                              Kahig
Dog             Aso                 Ido                             Ayam
Cat              Pusa               Kuring                         Iring
Today          Ngayon            Subong                       subong
Tomorrow      Bukas             Buwas                         Rum-an
Mine             Akin               Akon                           Takon
They            Sila                Sila                             Sanda
Know            Alam              Bal-an                         Kama-an
Many            Marami           Madamu                       Duro
Here             Dito               Diri                         Digya/dya/ja
Muddy          Maputik          Malutak                        Marutak
Ugaling, may nagahambal nga kon magsiling ka ngab "Ilonggo," daw exclusive bala ini sa mga tumandok sang syudad kag probinsya sang Iloilo. Amo na sang sugod dekada 80, ang mga iskolar kag mga manggaranon nga Negrosanon, nagsugod na sa pag-identicar sa ila kaugalingon nga mga "Negrense" biskan kalabanan sa ila ang ila nga ginhalinan ay nagahalin sa Isla sang Panay, partikular na ang probinsya sang Iloilo kag Antique kag ang mga banwa sang Jaro kag Molo (sang wala pa ginhimo ang Ciudad sang Iloilo).

Pero kon yara ka sa Cotabato, basta magahambal ka lang sang Hiligaynon-Sina kag Kinaray-a kag halin ka sa Bisayas Nakatundan, ilabel ka na dayon nga "Ilonggo" biskan halin ka pa Negros, Antique, Iloilo ukon Capiz.

Ang Aklanon ya, may lain man sila nga pinulong nga bisan ang mga Ilonggo wala gid kaintiende, pero ang mga Aklanon makahambal kag makaintiende man sang Hiligaynon.

Isa ka maayo nga halimbawa sang Akeanon:
"Ro anwang na nagaeog-gaeog sa eogan-eogan." - Aklanon
"Ang kalabaw ya nagalublub sa lubluban." - Hiligaynon

"Ro kaeamay naga-kaheapot sa kaeaha." - Aklanon
"Ang kalamay naga-kalaput sa kalaha." - Hiligaynon

Mabudlayan ang mga Ilonggo na nagahambal sang Hiligaynon Sina nga ipronounce ang ea ee ei eo eu...ugaring may yara man nga mga Kinaray-a kag Capiznon nga makahambal sini kay tungod lapit man sila sa tagsa-tagsa.

Ang Inati naman ukon pinulong nga Ati, lain man sa Kinaray-a biskan daw Kinaray-a pamati-an. Ang tawag nila sa mga taga-ubos ukon patag, amo na ang mga "Bisaya." Wala sila labot kon Cebuano, Ilonggo ukon Waray ina. Basta taga-ubos.

Ang "Ligbuk," amo naman kuno nga mas madalum pa kon ikumpara sa Kinaray-a kay tungod amo ni ang pinulong sang mga Panay-Bukidnon, isa ka tumandok ukon indigenous tribe nga nakatener sa kabukiran sang sentro sang Panay. Sa ila makit-an ang pina-madamu nga manggad sang literaturang tradisyunal sang mga Panayanon.

Sa lip-ot nga mga tinaga: "Guinhimo inang locality labeling nga daw citizenship sa isa ka lugar."

ay maiwat ka anay utod! mabudlay basahon kon sobra kalaba imo post..
in fairness indi ko mahimo nga motranslate tanan... hahaha

but thanks anyway, i think i undestand most of it.
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Old November 17th, 2008, 01:14 AM   #767
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Hambal gani sang iban, ang pinulong nga Hiligaynon, amo na ang halfway between Tagalog kag Cebuano...kay may ara nga tinaga nga Hiligaynon nga mabatian sa Tagalog nga ginlainan lang ang spelling ukon mga letra...samtang me ara naman nga mga tinagang Cebuano na makit-an sa pinulong nga Hiligaynon.

Tungod sini, nakatuon ako sing Hiligaynon dason Cebuano...kay daw transitory ang lingwaheng sini.
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Old November 17th, 2008, 02:56 AM   #768
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Hiligaynon word of the day:

"subong" (noun)
- referring to this present day.
- tinutukoy nito ang kasalukuyang araw.
- today (English); ngayon (Tagalog/Filipino); karon (Cebuano); hoy (Spanish)

For example:
"May kadtuan bala subong sinda'y tyo'y kag tya'y sa ciudad." - Hiligaynon
"May pupuntahan ngayon sina tito at tita sa lungsod." - Tagalog
"Naa adtuan karon ninda'y tyo'y og tya'y sa dakbayan." - Cebuano (please correct me if I'm wrong)
"Tito and tita will go to the city today." - English
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Old November 17th, 2008, 02:59 AM   #769
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habagatcentral1 View Post
Code:
Ingles          Tagalog            Hiligaynon-Sina               Kinaray-a
Feet            Paa                 Tiil                              Kahig
Dog             Aso                 Ido                             Ayam
Cat              Pusa               Kuring                         Iring
Today          Ngayon            Subong                       subong
Tomorrow      Bukas             Buwas                         Rum-an
Mine             Akin               Akon                           Takon
They            Sila                Sila                             Sanda
Know            Alam              Bal-an                         Kama-an
Many            Marami           Madamu                       Duro
Here             Dito               Diri                         Digya/dya/ja
Muddy          Maputik          Malutak                        Marutak
In northern Antique, we use "siki" instead of "kahig". Our pet cats are "kuding" and not "iring". For "today", it's "kaya/kadya/kaja" instead of "subong". "Tomorrow" is "naga". We don't use "marutak" for muddy. We say it's "lapukon" with "lapuk" being "mud".

Indi takeon deon.
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People do not light a lamp and put it under a basket. But they put it on the place for a lamp. Then all the people in the house can see its light.
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Old November 17th, 2008, 03:23 AM   #770
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The Pandanhon-Libertadnon variety of Kinaray-a is very close to that of Aklanon because of its vicinity...much like the people living in Sapian, Capiz which is situated near Aklan.

In anyway, for example...the Hiligaynon spoken in Bacolod is more gentler to that of the Iloilo variety...because of Iloilo's vicinity to the Kinaray-a speakers who speak with a stronger intonation (10 kilometers pa nga lang out of the city, its already Kinaray-a speaking) while Bacolod brought the gentle and genteel accent of the Ilonggo elite of Molo and Jaro together with their prosperity over sugar industry.

Some linguists do also consider economic and topographical reasons why the accent and the likes.
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Old November 17th, 2008, 01:35 PM   #771
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Sana mai-post dito ang Kadugong Bisaya Music for the Children of Lapulapu ng Starweek.
Nabasa ko ito kahapon(November 16,2008) sa The Sunday magazine of the Philippine STAR, page 03.
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Old November 18th, 2008, 11:02 AM   #772
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"Malipay eauman(luman) si Nanay mo ay iya ka"


"Masaya/Masigla/Malakas/Kaaya-aya na naman si Nanay mo dahil nandito ka".



Bisa - Mano

Pagmamano : isa sa mga nakaugalian na ng mga Tagalog na sa tuwing sasapit ang ala-sais ng gabi ang mga bata ay dapat nasa bahay na. Pagpasok ng bahay ay nagmamano sa mga magulang.
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Old November 21st, 2008, 09:01 AM   #773
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The Ilonggo-Bisaya 'komposo' through time

Henry F. Funtecha, Ph.D.

One of the most durable of the Ilonggo forms of literary expressions is the komposo. Thekomposo, as the name suggests, is a composition, in this case a musical one.

The komposo, as it is commonly known today, can be traced back to the Spanish period, although the pre-colonial Filipinos had a similar past-time prior to colonization. For example, the Mangyans of Mindoro are still doing it today, composing love songson segments of green bamboo and singing it while on a courtship. During the Spanish times, it was used as a tool for oral mass communication. Every barangay or town had, in the average, tow to three manugkomposo who would sing out in public places, usually the plaza, important events to be commemorated or the latest "news". Initially, it was a narrative sung in a repetitive melody. Later, adapting and responding to the changing situations and needs of a developing Ilonggo-Bisaya society, it expanded into a non-narrative content.

Among the popular subjects or themes of komposo during the Spanish period were muncvipal ordinances, town life as oppsoed to life in the hinterlands, the virtues of Catholicism, the brutalities of the Moro invasions, and the heroism of folk legendary heroes. A good example of the last genre is the komposo on Montor, the folk hero of the Iloilo phase of the Philippine Revolution.

The American occupation of the Philippines ushered in a new era which considerably transformed the Ilonggo-Bisaya society and way of life. The exploits of local leaders were still a popular subject, as in the case of the komposo on Quintin Salas, hero of the Filipino-American War. But, certainly, new themes brought about by a new Western culture and a new morality reflected conflicts between the old and the young. In this regard, according to a paper written by Alicia Tan-Gonzales (1990), the manugkomposo became the legitimate speakers for the old culture and values.

The Japanese interlude, on its part, brought more komposo. The war brought together the poor and the rich to the hills for protection and safety. This abnormal situation made the komposo very popular as a free means of entertainment. During peaceful nights when everyone was assured of being free from the threats of Japanese presence or raids, komposos would flow lyrically from the manugkomposo's lips. Other than the entertaining ones, horrifying komposos of massacres, pillage and atrocities came out in this period of terror and deprivation.

Interestingly, the end of the Japanese occupation up to about the eighties witnesses a resumption of the Ilonggo-Bisaya folk's resistance to the new morality brought about by the earlier Americanization process. Thus, among the subjects taken in the komposo were the youth's insubordination, the changing attitudes of young women, western fashion, and the idealization of rural women because of their embodiment of valued tradition (Gonzales 1990).

The period 1950s to the 1960s was further characterized by the proliferation of komposos bearing political contents. Election campaign strategists discoveredone effective way of communicating with the electorate by using the komposo. This was the case, for example, with a very popular komposo for the candidacy of the late Pres. Ramon Magsaysay.

The seventies up to the eighties, on the other hand, brought to the surface propaganda komposos, especially pertaining to the many programs of the Martial Law regime. The ninities and beyond speak of love, violence, death, infidelity, the plight of overseasworkers,the changes in the cultural landscape, as well as the human need for justice.

It can be said, therefore, that whatever the subject or theme is, the komposo has always reflected historical and cultural realities and changes through time. Significantly, the Ilonggo-Bisaya manugkomposo, regardless of what he sings, is often amicable and non-confrontational. Maybe, this is a reflection of his orher reputation as an endearing person, cautious of the feelings of other people. This will perhaps explain why he/she always asks for "dispensasyon" for himself/herself at the end of the komposo.
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Old November 21st, 2008, 09:38 AM   #774
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badlit (Akeanon)- linya, guhit, tanda or marka ng pen o brush o iba pang katulad.

Eksampol:

"Anhon mo kon amo ina ang badlit sang palad mo?"

In Tagalog:

"Ano ang magagawa mo kung iyan ang guhit ng iyong palad?"
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A city built on a hill cannot be hidden. So also with a lamp.
People do not light a lamp and put it under a basket. But they put it on the place for a lamp. Then all the people in the house can see its light.
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Old November 22nd, 2008, 11:15 AM   #775
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Turagsoy



Kanamit gid pro!
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Old November 23rd, 2008, 12:06 AM   #776
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habagatcentral1 View Post
Hiligaynon word of the day:

"subong" (noun)
- referring to this present day.
- tinutukoy nito ang kasalukuyang araw.
- today (English); ngayon (Tagalog/Filipino); karon (Cebuano); hoy (Spanish)

For example:
"May kadtuan bala subong sinda'y tyo'y kag tya'y sa ciudad." - Hiligaynon
"May pupuntahan ngayon sina tito at tita sa lungsod." - Tagalog
"Naa adtuan karon ninda'y tyo'y og tya'y sa dakbayan." - Cebuano (please correct me if I'm wrong)
"Tito and tita will go to the city today." - English
ang cebuano equivalent is:
Dunay adtuon karon si tio ug tia sa siyudad (with spanish influence of tio, tia and ciudad)
or Naay adtuon karon is tiyo ug tiya sa dakbayan (pure cebuano)

you can also place the time element after the nouns tiyo ug tiya or after dakabayan.

Dunay adtuon si tiyo ug tiya karon sa dakbayan.
Dunay adtuon si tiyo ug tiya sa dakbayan karon (usually a specific time is added like karon buntag -morning, karon hapon- afternoon or karon gabii- evening)

if you follow the english sentence:
Si tiyo ug si tiya moadto sa dakbayan karon.
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Old November 23rd, 2008, 12:13 AM   #777
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also cebuanos prefer syudad over dakbayan kay it is shorter. only two syllables compared to 3. just like in english, native speakers of english choose the shortest words or sentence that expresses their thought. so the habit of pinoys of going around the bush when speaking and writing english is too wordy and it confuses the native speaker or listener. be concise but direct to the point. so ang pagkadamo gid sang palabras dili gid maayo.

Last edited by MatudNilaBaby; November 23rd, 2008 at 12:35 AM.
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Old November 28th, 2008, 07:18 AM   #778
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Guin taw-an ko ro akon nga unga it sanggatos.

Binigyan ko ang anak ko ng isang daang piso

Sayod nana kon pila ro beinte pisos.

Alam niya kung magkano ang twenti pesos




"Anak, sabihin mo Hapi Tenksgibing dey"
Happy Thanksgiving Day Daddy!
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Old December 3rd, 2008, 09:48 AM   #779
Tyo Tagoy
"ILOILO" my precious...
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: S. Korea & Metro Iloilo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habagatcentral1 View Post
Hambal gani sang iban, ang pinulong nga Hiligaynon, amo na ang halfway between Tagalog kag Cebuano...kay may ara nga tinaga nga Hiligaynon nga mabatian sa Tagalog nga ginlainan lang ang spelling ukon mga letra...samtang me ara naman nga mga tinagang Cebuano na makit-an sa pinulong nga Hiligaynon.

Tungod sini, nakatuon ako sing Hiligaynon dason Cebuano...kay daw transitory ang lingwaheng sini.
i agree!
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Old December 3rd, 2008, 09:49 AM   #780
Tyo Tagoy
"ILOILO" my precious...
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: S. Korea & Metro Iloilo
Posts: 14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wind Shear View Post
Turagsoy



Kanamit gid pro!
thanks for posting bro!
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